Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

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Should Linux Mint...

Maintain There Own Distro
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34%
Follow Ubuntu
47
15%
Follow Debian
136
44%
Other (tell me in the comments)
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Total votes : 306

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby AlbertP on Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:49 pm

As you might already know, I'd vote for Gnome 3 with Mint Menu and a panel.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby craig10x on Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:01 pm

AlbertP wrote:As you might already know, I'd vote for Gnome 3 with Mint Menu and a panel.


Me too...gnome3 with panel on bottom and mint menu...same as it has always had except with gnome 3....i think that would be the best bet...
why play with other variations? why even bother having two separate editions?
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby HardyH on Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:09 pm

craig10x wrote:
AlbertP wrote:As you might already know, I'd vote for Gnome 3 with Mint Menu and a panel.


Me too...gnome3 with panel on bottom and mint menu...same as it has always had except with gnome 3....i think that would be the best bet...
why play with other variations? why even bother having two separate editions?


Why G2 and G3? Cause there are lots and lots of users out here who don't want their GUI looking like a smartphone with the insane Gnome 3 settings behind it.
It's a very wise decison not to abandon Gnome 2 for that new atrocity called Gnome 3.
H.
Last edited by proxima_centauri on Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited for profanity.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby AlbertP on Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:41 pm

Gnome 3 fallback mode IS NOT A SMARTPHONE GUI.

I hate smartphone GUI's like Gnome 3 Shell. But Gnome 3 without shell (fallback mode) is a nice desktop.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby HardyH on Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:20 pm

AlbertP wrote:Gnome 3 fallback mode IS NOT A SMARTPHONE GUI.

I hate smartphone GUI's like Gnome 3 Shell. But Gnome 3 without shell (fallback mode) is a nice desktop.


The base behind G3 fallback is still Gnome 3, and G3 fallback does not have the functionality of G2, it's still G3.
Sometimes, nice is not enough.
H.
Last edited by proxima_centauri on Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited for profanity.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby craig10x on Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:33 pm

HardyH...i think what you are not getting is gnome2 is basically "dead" going forth...it will no longer be maintained and the switch to gnome3 is necessary...just as kde3 became kde4 and the kde fans cried at the time also...though at least kde didn't radically modify the basic desktop layout as gnome has unfortunately done...

The best bet at this point is further development in fallback mode, extensions, etc...Time you woke up and "smelled the coffee" :lol:

I still think just going gnome 3 and offering fallback as the default (with classic mint desktop) and optional gnome 3 shell (for those who like that...i guess there are some...lol) would be the best way for Clem to go...not two separate editions of Mint 12...
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby HardyH on Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:33 pm

craig10x wrote:HardyH...i think what you are not getting is gnome2 is basically "dead" going forth...it will no longer be maintained and the switch to gnome3 is necessary...just as kde3 became kde4 and the kde fans cried at the time also...though at least kde didn't radically modify the basic desktop layout as gnome has unfortunately done...

The best bet at this point is further development in fallback mode, extensions, etc...Time you woke up and "smelled the coffee" :lol:

I still think just going gnome 3 and offering fallback as the default (with classic mint desktop) and optional gnome 3 shell (for those who like that...i guess there are some...lol) would be the best way for Clem to go...not two separate editions of Mint 12...


Any effort put into Gnome 3 for me is like flogging a dead born horse, useless, wasted time and energy, bet would be to ignore Gnome 3 completely. Tested both Shell and Fallback in the last two days again (Gnome 3.2,) both made me so angry after let's say 2 days (seems I am not the type of retarded user the Gnome devs targetted) that I ended up with formatting my HDD.
Gnome 3 , born dead and useless....
H.

Edit, now, as it seems to be clear that Mint 12 will be coming with Gnome 2 ( or maybe the Gnome 2 fork Mate ) and Gnome 3 it's fine, no need to use the horrible Gnome 3 (S)hell or the crippled fallback thing, great....
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby kaddy on Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:37 am

So is there any "official" announcement what is happening with Mint 12? is it going to have Gnome2 / Gtk2? (Mate Desktop?)

I heard that Debian are porting Gnome-panel over to gtk3/Gnome 3... havn't heard much about that since... but that would be the sensible thing to do if and when it happens........ Gnome 2 look and feel with far better Gtk3 toolkit

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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby xenopeek on Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:03 am

kaddy wrote:So is there any "official" announcement what is happening with Mint 12? is it going to have Gnome2 / Gtk2? (Mate Desktop?)

Yes, see last post on previous page, or direct link: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=73579&start=240#p482005
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby vex390 on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:22 am

Linux mint is a great OS, but in all serious they need to grow their user-base. If that means sticking with ubuntu, do it. More users = more funds and supporters to make all the different flavors. Simplifying the interface will open mint up to a different source of fan base too which is really what mint needs ATM.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby craig10x on Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:17 pm

Based on what Clem said it sounds like that ultimately, in order to run gnome 3 it will be necessary to run the gnome shell...and that fallback mode for gnome 3 is just a temporary thing that will eventually disappear...so will this mean that those of us who like to run gnome will have to accept the shell no matter what?
That is sure how it is sounding to me... :roll:

Maybe our "resident pessimist" (linuxviolin) was justified in being pessimistic about this in the first place :(
Or am i missing something...is there anything optimistic out there regarding how this will "play out" ?

I was looking at kubuntu 11.10 today...trying to see if i could accept the change over to kde should this all come to pass...
I'd prefer to stay gnome...but i am starting to wonder if i will be forced to go for the alternative (i don't care for xfce, fluxbox and lxde by the way_...
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby spikemcc on Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:55 pm

Some will mostly disagree but the two most successful linux distros are Mint and Archlinux for now ...

Archlinux is an harder to install linux but the ease of use after is simply perfect, it would also follow LMDE style as it's a rolling release distro, fast, clean, without bloat ...

Archlinux has no metapackages, Linux mint team could simply make some and make various live cd/dvd/usb like linux mint vs ubuntu (codecs, easier tools, ect ...)

If I could make an easy all-in-one distro like Mint based on Archlinux, I would do it myself at once, there will be an high learning curve for some stuff (having problems to setup an ad-hoc), but I can't get out of it, I always come back for more, Aur packages repository is simply unbeattable !!!
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby KBD47 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:40 am

Clem is brilliant if he keeps a gnome 2 Mint distro, or better yet, tosses it and uses Xfce. I've now tried gnome fallback in 11.10 Ubuntu, and only foul language can truly express my opinion of it. I will just say, it is not gnome 2, not in this Universe.
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PS--Unity is a bit better in 11.10, I've wondered if they were brilliant from dropping the gnome 3 shell in favor of Unity, now I know.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby xenopeek on Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:53 am

KBD47 wrote:PS--Unity is a bit better in 11.10, I've wondered if they were brilliant from dropping the gnome 3 shell in favor of Unity, now I know.

Isn't Unity now running on top of GNOME 3 as replacement of the Shell?

Linux Mint 12, as announced, will be available with either GNOME 2 or GNOME 3 (your choice). For those like me who want GNOME 3 with the Mint Menu and a panel, some recent articles on various ways to further customize GNOME 3:
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby AlbertP on Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:08 am

Unity runs on top of Compiz, which itself runs as a window manager for a stripped Gnome 3 version.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby linuxviolin on Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:00 am

craig10x wrote:HardyH...i think what you are not getting is gnome2 is basically "dead" going forth...it will no longer be maintained and the switch to gnome3 is necessary...

Yes, GNOME 2 is dead. Period. If you want using GNOME you should use GNOME 3 now. If you really want to stay with GNOME 2 you can still use some LTS releases or some Red Hat clones for instance for some time again...

craig10x wrote:just as kde3 became kde4 and the kde fans cried at the time also...though at least kde didn't radically modify the basic desktop layout as gnome has unfortunately done...

Well, in KDE 4 you always have the "traditional" desktop if you want (with a folder view desktop), not a "fallback mode" which is not exactly the same than the "traditional" GNOME 2.

craig10x wrote:Based on what Clem said it sounds like that ultimately, in order to run gnome 3 it will be necessary to run the gnome shell...

If you really want using GNOME 3 you probably should use the complete, the "real", GNOME 3 desktop... Especially for the long term.

craig10x wrote:and that fallback mode for gnome 3 is just a temporary thing that will eventually disappear...

Ah ah... :wink: :lol: Unfortunately, I have not find again the post/article I read about this. :(

craig10x wrote:so will this mean that those of us who like to run gnome will have to accept the shell no matter what?

Well, yes. Possibly. By the way, this is very much in the usual politic of GNOME developers... :roll:

craig10x wrote:Maybe our "resident pessimist" (linuxviolin) was justified in being pessimistic about this in the first place

:D

craig10x wrote:I was looking at kubuntu 11.10 today...trying to see if i could accept the change over to kde should this all come to pass...
I'd prefer to stay gnome...but i am starting to wonder if i will be forced to go for the alternative (i don't care for xfce, fluxbox and lxde by the way_...

As I have already explain that in several places in this forum, KDE 4 is probably now a better choice as a desktop (with a folder view desktop), it is the way to go even for those who are long-time GNOME2 aficionados. But it's me. :mrgreen:
Last edited by linuxviolin on Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby AlbertP on Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:10 am

[quote=craig10x]and that fallback mode for gnome 3 is just a temporary thing that will eventually disappear...[/quote]
Please tell me where you found that fallback mode will be removed from Gnome 3 in future.
When fallback mode proves to be popular, perhaps it won't be removed.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby mack_guy911 on Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:44 am

mint is always little good over ubuntu beacause it making little more mature eye candy and out of box experiance if they create something new or maintain complete OS it take time lot time and energy .........rather

than i guess they should put more effort on making ubuntu more mature distro they can create modules for ubuntu instead of creating the whole OS

also unity is maturing getting better i guess mint should follow ubuntu as per debian they have created LMDE so i guess they should make it better creating service update packs is great idea about debain this way they keep both users happy.

at end of day everyone wants great OS with stability if they can maintain stability part on main and LMDE its awesome.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby craig10x on Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:17 pm

AlbertP wrote:[quote=craig10x]and that fallback mode for gnome 3 is just a temporary thing that will eventually disappear...

Please tell me where you found that fallback mode will be removed from Gnome 3 in future.
When fallback mode proves to be popular, perhaps it won't be removed.[/quote]

Actually, Clem himself said that...it's in his response to my comments on his latest announcements "blog" on the main page...I will locate it and copy and paste it in here for you (note especially the last paragraph)...

This is why i have gotten pessimistic about the situation with gnome and am considering switching to kde myself because at least i can maintain a "conventional style" desktop with it since it sure looks like will become increasingly difficult with gnome now...Here is his response to me:

@Craig: Gnome 2 + GTK+ is not being developped anymore, so you won’t see it get any new features, but it’s amongst the most stable desktop environments out there. As such, it’s not going anywhere. GTK3 and Gnome 3 are more promising technologies of course, but they’re far from reaching the same level of maturity Gnome 2 has. “Gnome 3 without Gnome-Shell” is called “Gnome Fallback Mode” and it’s nothing to do with Gnome 2.

Gnome 2 is a stable GTK+ desktop which no longer evolves in terms of features.
Gnome Fallback Mode is basically an adaptation of gnome-panel, which looks like Gnome 2 but is based on GTK3 and is incompatible with Bonobo and panel applets.

So the first thing to consider is this: Panel applets need a rewrite to work in Gnome Fallback Mode. MintMenu for instance works in Gnome 2, but it doesn’t work in Gnome Fallback or in Gnome Shell. We can make it work in Gnome Fallback and we can make it work in Gnome Shell, but we then need a rewrite.
The second thing to consider is that Gnome Fallback isn’t here to stay. The Gnome devs don’t want it there and people who like Gnome 2 don’t like it anyway. Eventually you’ll see Gnome Shell gain compatibility with less powerful graphics card and Shell will be the only way to run Gnome 3. It’s not a bad thing, since Gnome Fallback Mode, from a usability point of view, really isn’t an interesting desktop. So going forward, we’ve got Gnome3/GTK3 being actively developed and improved, we’ve got Gnome2/GTK still there for us to use but not gaining new features, and we’ve got something called Gnome Fallback Mode which is just that, a 2D fallback mode, and which is going to disappear.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby ledah on Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:39 pm

I would love to see mint 12 based on xubuntu, (i tried LMDX,i couldn't get the os recognize the wireless, so i went back with gnome :D)
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