Linux Mint Forums

I'm wondering why future mints couldn't have gnome 3 with extensions that allow it to be configured to the standard "mint desktop"....
Clem said Fallback mode will disappear eventually, but i would have to assume that extensions will always be around and in fact continuing to become more
flexible...

Wouldn't this be the more logical way to go?

craig10x wrote:Panel applets need a rewrite to work in Gnome Fallback Mode. MintMenu for instance works in Gnome 2, but it doesn’t work in Gnome Fallback or in Gnome Shell. We can make it work in Gnome Fallback and we can make it work in Gnome Shell, but we then need a rewrite.

Hmm, that's one strange fallback. What's the point of a fallback mode without providing the necessary compatibility? (Okay, maybe it's Schroedinger's Fallback Mode then. )

Monsta wrote:

craig10x wrote:Panel applets need a rewrite to work in Gnome Fallback Mode. MintMenu for instance works in Gnome 2, but it doesn’t work in Gnome Fallback or in Gnome Shell. We can make it work in Gnome Fallback and we can make it work in Gnome Shell, but we then need a rewrite.

Hmm, that's one strange fallback. What's the point of a fallback mode without providing the necessary compatibility? (Okay, maybe it's Schroedinger's Fallback Mode then. )

The discussion I think is around "Gnome 2" fallback. For any graphics card that do not support 2D/3D acceleration, Gnome 3 provides a Gnome 2-like fallback mode that works with all graphics cards, IIRC. Probably there will always be a fallback mode, but it might not be Gnome 2-like. That is the concern if we move forward on Gnome 3 with using the fallback mode.

Looking at Ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10 for example. In 11.04 Unity was the default, but there was a fallback to normal Gnome 2. In 11.10 this is gone, and the fallback now is "Unity 2D". Of course, you can install normal Gnome sessions in addition to Unity and Unity 2D fallback.

I installed Gnome Shell on Ubuntu 11.10, and now on login I have the choice of GNOME (Gnome 3 w/shell), Gnome Classic (with effects), Gnome Classic (no effects), and Ubuntu Desktop (Unity). I posted a screenshot in the Post Your Linux Mint Desktop thread, showing use of Cairo Dock w/OpenGL. So it seems to be very tweakable if you are a Google Ninja. I think Clem will be able to give us an experience close enough to the old Gnome 2 to make everyone happy who still want that DE.

tdockery97 wrote:I installed Gnome Shell on Ubuntu 11.10, and now on login I have the choice of GNOME (Gnome 3 w/shell), Gnome Classic (with effects), Gnome Classic (no effects), and Ubuntu Desktop (Unity). I posted a screenshot in the Post Your Linux Mint Desktop thread, showing use of Cairo Dock w/OpenGL. So it seems to be very tweakable if you are a Google Ninja. I think Clem will be able to give us an experience close enough to the old Gnome 2 to make everyone happy who still want that DE.

That sounds great tdockery97...please let Clem know about this also so he can look into in while he works on mint 12

For everybody (like me) who thinks GNOME 3 needs more work to be as usable as GNOME 2, go ahead and participate in The 2011 GNOME User Survey, hosted by Phoronix by request of GNOME developers.

Uh, and please be constructive in describing the things that do not work for you and how thase could be improved. That is the only way to get GNOME 3 to shift focus The unproductive "die GNOME 3, die! " comments are already well represented in the early results of the survey, as shared here

tdockery97 wrote:I installed Gnome Shell on Ubuntu 11.10, and now on login I have the choice of GNOME (Gnome 3 w/shell), Gnome Classic (with effects), Gnome Classic (no effects), and Ubuntu Desktop (Unity). I posted a screenshot in the Post Your Linux Mint Desktop thread, showing use of Cairo Dock w/OpenGL. So it seems to be very tweakable if you are a Google Ninja. I think Clem will be able to give us an experience close enough to the old Gnome 2 to make everyone happy who still want that DE.

Gnome 3 Fallback? No thanks, same miserable configurability, same unnecessary dumbing down of functionality, even if it looks almost like Gnome 2 it is NOT Gnome 2 and I appreciate the anouncement of Mint 12 with Gnome 2 very much.
H.

HardyH i don't think you read tdockery97's comments properly....he has the functionality..you use the tweaks also...there are lost of ways to make gnome 3 work without shell both now and in the future as well...In fact, i think Clem's goal is to merge gnome 3 with desktop functionality of gnome2 and i (like many others here) believe he will succeed...it's not as "difficult" as you might think...

You and linuxviolin are about the two biggest pessimists i have seen in the mint forums...relax and watch things "play out" and i am sure you will ultimately be very pleasantly surprised...and it's not all "doom and gloom" like you think...

I also have no doubt that other ubuntu spin offs like Zorin will be able to do likewise...

I'm quite encouraged that Clem is going to keep gnome 2 for Mint until he gets gnome 3 into shape. Right now gnome 3 in fallback seems easier to use than gnome 3 shell, but it is much harder to tweak, or so it seems to me, than gnome 2. I believe Mint has a huge opportunity to give refuge to the Unity and Gnome 3 refugees both now and in the future. Yes, the future is bright for Mint
KBD47

I'm not sure if I would say harder to tweak, or just that it is done very differently. I suppose the real difference between Gnome 2 and 3 is that Gnome 2 was meant to be very configurable, where it seems that Gnome 3 is meant to be the way the developers see it. I could be wrong but it seems that the tweak tools are having to actually play with the underlying code to do the configurations. But fortunately it can still be accomplished. If Mint Menu were now based on GTK3 and I could add it to my installation then my desktop would work exactly like my Mint 11 Gnome desktop did.

After installing Cairo Dock on Ubuntu 11.10 and installing Xubuntu 11.10 and seeing how much you can configure those, I'm convinced that someone who knows what they are doing, has more skills than I, could indeed do a fine job of setting up a Mint menu onto the latest Ubuntu.
KBD47

I am jumping into the conversation late, as the title was Linux Mint 12, and I use LMDE.

BUT, the future arrived this past week in LMDE Gnome, tracking SID.

The change was made to Gnome 3 in updates last weekend.
I have been running LMDE 64bit tracking SID and running the full Gnome-Shell, (through normal distribution-updates). That means it will probably hit LMDE "Testing" in a month or so.

Boy, this forum is going to be busy then.

I ran it both in "fallback mode" (I could not load the Shell, as I had Compiz set to load at boot.). I found out that to run Gnome-Shell you had to turn Compiz OFF.
My impressions are good. The fallback mode is fine. I can still run Compiz, and Emerald. You can edit the panel (alt+rt click), and add many of the old applets, not all.
The Shell is also real nice. Personally, I like it. Admittedly there are not that many shell extensions yet, but new ones every week. Just follow Web Upd8 http://www.webupd8.org/. You can see that Gnome3 is in its infancy, but growing.
The new Nautilus is kind of 'naked' (No nautilus-gksu, and I had to re-install nautilus-open-terminal). There is a fix for nautilus-gksu (open as administrator) that works in Oneiric. I have yet to try it with LMDE.

I had worries about the direction of Mint with Gnome3, but no longer.
I am sticking with LMDE and Gnome-Shell.

It's the third decade for Linux. Kernel 3 - Gnome 3.. The big distros Fedora - Suse - Arch - even Ubuntu (one click away); they're all moving on. Time for Mint to decide 'what makes Mint'; itś not just the menu....

My thoughts about what makes Mint:
User friendly, newbie friendly, works out of the box, needs little or no tweaking, comes with useful apps. It just works.
KBD47

tdockery97 wrote:I could be wrong but it seems that the tweak tools are having to actually play with the underlying code to do the configurations.

No, all the tweak tool does is change gconf/dconf options (that already exist) via an easy GUI interface for altering those settings that the tweak developers consider important (that at this stage are not catered for in the default settings GUI).

craig10x wrote:
You and linuxviolin are about the two biggest pessimists i have seen in the mint forums...relax and watch things "play out" and i am sure you will ultimately be very pleasantly surprised...and it's not all "doom and gloom" like you think...

No, it's all installing applications to modify things that could be modified with one or two simple clicks in Gnome 2, pressing various keys ( who the hell invented 'press alt plus the key above tab to switch between different windows of one application or pressing 4 keys at the same time to move the current window to a different workspace ( something that could be done in Gnome 2 with a single right click on a panel) ??), removing configurability, treating the user as if he's some kind of complete noob using his locked down preconfigured Gnome-Tablet, with the need to get rid of all configurability, cause the idiot that uses the GUI might change something accidentially. What an arrogant attitude by teh Gnome 3 devs. it stinks, and is not the kind of respect a developer should have for his potential users. Linus once said about Gnome devs: If you think your users are idiots, only idiots will use it.
Nothing more to add to this Linus quote...
H.

The problem with using Gnome2 is compatibility. ALL of the distros that are staying with Gnome2 are buggy. Mint11 was too unstable for me to use or recommend. If Mint-12 has the same conflicts and freezing, I wont be using or recommending it.

Maybe Ubuntu isnt the best base for a Gnome2 installation because of the conflicts with Gnome-3, or the tripple problem of how the unity interface handles Gnome.

Maybe you should start with a minimal install and manually add the packages NOT from Synaptic or the repositories, but build them yourself ontop of Xubuntu or a minimal install.


Or what about Nautilus and Gnome-2 panel in XFCE?

Unity is in some ways more efficient, but its uglier and even less customizable.

I would be happy if Mint Main switched to KDE instead of pushing it onto Debian.

My hope is that if Mint goes Gnome 3 as it ultimately appears it will, that every freakin tweak available comes with it, gnome tweak, ubuntu tweak, that ccss? whatever and anything else that can be thrown in, because Ubuntu 11.10 is the most unconfigurable (is that a word?) Linux version I've ever seen, whether it's gnome 3 or unity. Now Xubuntu and the other buntus are a different matter, those you can configure. About the only thing that made me feel that I had any control over Ubuntu 11.10 was when I installed Cairo Dock.
And Clem, please, for heaven's sake, put a shutdown and reboot button in the Mint control panel. What was Ubuntu Unity--no reboot option--and Gnome 3--no shutdown without messing with the alt button--thinking? Keeping a interface unconfigurable to prevent noobs from messing with it is bad enough, making them jump through hoops to shut it down and removing reboot is unforgivable.
KBD47

KBD47 wrote:My hope is that if Mint goes Gnome 3 as it ultimately appears it will, that every freakin tweak available comes with it, gnome tweak, ubuntu tweak, that ccss? whatever and anything else that can be thrown in, because Ubuntu 11.10 is the most unconfigurable (is that a word?) Linux version I've ever seen, whether it's gnome 3 or unity. ...
KBD47

And when Gnome 3.2 gets upgraded to 3.4, all extensions will eventually break, great....
H.