Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

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Should Linux Mint...

Maintain There Own Distro
105
34%
Follow Ubuntu
47
15%
Follow Debian
136
44%
Other (tell me in the comments)
18
6%
 
Total votes : 306

Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby Moggertron on Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:56 pm

I run Natty on my desktop and Mint 11 on my lappy. After fixing up a little b43 driver issue my Mint is working really well. Happy with the layout and the ease of use. Menus are predictable and any newby that I show it to can navigate to programs of their interest easily.

My Ubuntu desktop is now running the gnome option. I gave Unity a good solid 3-4 month try. But it was too fancy and a bit of a prick to use. Since going back to gnome I haven't had any system crashes either. Not sure why it was crashing in Unity, but it was.

I like simple menus, that I can navigate easily and not a giant Iphone looking pc.

I think if Mint can satisfy the people who like a few bells and whistles as well as those who just want some simplicity, it will always have a strong following. With so many choices ubuntu base, deb base, kde,xfce and so on it covers a lot already.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby craig10x on Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:57 pm

Great :D It's so good to hear that zerozero..."breaths a sigh of relief" :lol:

I wasn't aware about that fallback business...you're right...that should be the default with unity of shell as OPTIONS...but as long as ubuntu (and non-ubuntu) based distros can carry forth with the ability to make the desktop appearance basically the way they want to...then it doesn't sound like Gnome3 will be any kind of major "stumbling block"...

One thing i am wondering is, that i know with gnome 3 the panel is on top...will he still be able to switch it to the bottom as mint has always had it (if you happen to know)...
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby zerozero on Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:18 pm

so you can breath another sigh of relief :lol:
- there's a set of extensions to give you exactly that :D http://www.webupd8.org/2011/06/get-clas ... these.html
these extensions were developed for Guadalinex (a spanish distro) but they can of course be used in any gnome-shell interface;

more about extensions http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Extensions (the "official" ones)
and more (the "community" ones) http://www.webupd8.org/search/label/gnome%20shell%20extensions?max-results=10
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby Moggertron on Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:20 pm

One thing we can be sure of is that people will vote with their feet. If distros head down a path that isn't popular, the masses will shift to another. The freedom of linux is one of it's greatest strengths, but could become a weakness also. I think this freedom keeps all that develop it on their toes to produce stable releases that people will like.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby craig10x on Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:55 pm

Excellent zerozero...interesting "links" also...looks like there are many options available :)
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby linuxviolin on Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:59 pm

zerozero wrote:there's a set of extensions to give you exactly that :D http://www.webupd8.org/2011/06/get-clas ... these.html
these extensions were developed for Guadalinex (a spanish distro) but they can of course be used in any gnome-shell interface;

Hmm, I'm sorry but for me these extensions don't give a desktop equal to the classic GNOME 2 desktop... :roll: It's just *maybe* a little savor, and still, or like Canada Dry: something that resembles to but something which is not really that... The fallback-mode sucks as well and also is not the same animal. Oh and we want a desktop with sane defaults, not a desktop where you need extensions and some hours of customization to have *perhaps* something about usable... Just forget GNOME 3.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby craig10x on Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:10 pm

Not possible...Gnome2 will no longer be supported...but we should be grateful we can avoid unity and shell...can't expect perfection...let's hope Clem will be able to to optimize it as best he can...
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby xenopeek on Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:24 am

linuxviolin wrote:Hmm, I'm sorry but for me these extensions don't give a desktop equal to the classic GNOME 2 desktop... :roll: It's just *maybe* a little savor, and still, or like Canada Dry: something that resembles to but something which is not really that... The fallback-mode sucks as well and also is not the same animal. Oh and we want a desktop with sane defaults, not a desktop where you need extensions and some hours of customization to have *perhaps* something about usable... Just forget GNOME 3.

Hey, give it some time :wink: I'm hoping and am hopeful future Linux Mint with GNOME 3 will give you sane defaults, and you won't have to muddle with extensions. As zerozero's link indicate, we aren't the only distro worried about GNOME 3 with Shell. Give the work being done some time.

Thanks zerzero for the bunch of links, I'm going to follow webupd8 more closely.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby zerozero on Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:59 am

the questions here is:
1- we are comparing a raw gnome3 (as it came out of the devs hands) with what? where is that classic gnome2 desktop to compare to?
a- Mint10's desktop?
b- Ubuntu 10.04's desktop?
c- Fedora 14's desktop?
- you compare those 3 and you see the differences, every distro took the raw gnome2 and modded according to their view of a "perfect working interface" - well maybe fedora did it less;
- so, it's an unfair comparison, gnome2.32 is not what you see when you boot a mint10 live-cd, there's hours and hours of work there to redo, undo and change what was done by the gnome devs;

@Vincent, most welcome 8) Andrei does a great job at webupd8, a must imho
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby craig10x on Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:02 am

And for myself, actually, i was never too fond of what is called the "classic gnome2 desktop layout" with 2 panels and with the applications menu fanning out from the top...the first thing i did (when running actual Ubuntu) was to delete the bottom panel, move the top panel to the bottom and change the menu to something like say, the gnomenu which is so much more like the "linux mint' style menu)...i was ALWAYS more comfortable with that...and that was one of the initial things that attracted me to Linux Mint...Which has a customized version of "classic gnome2 desktop"...

I also like the way KDE does it, with just one panel on bottom and the default "kick off menu".....


It's Unity and Shell that i don't care for (as many others also do not)...and i wasn't that anxious to go KDE just to get away from it...I think i have always preferred gnome for it's greater simplicity...Also, for some strange reason, Gnome applications don't look so great usually on KDE and yet KDE applications look great on Gnome (i use a few kde apps)... :wink:

As zerozero said, let's give Clem a chance to work on it..which actually won't be that far away as the new Ubuntu 11.10 comes out in October... :)
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby linuxviolin on Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:22 pm

craig10x wrote:Not possible...Gnome2 will no longer be supported...

GNOME 2 is dead, yes. The only choice now is using LTS releases or long-support distros like RH or one of its clones: CentOS, SL... Or change your desktop, if you can.

zerozero: or as I'm coming to say: use a LTS release or CentOS, SL...

craig10x, I am exactly on the opposite side I always use a two panels setup, even outside of GNOME. E.g. my Fedora XFCE is set up with the default two-panels GNOME 2 look, idem for my Mageia KDE (and the default classical menu, not Lancelot or other...) Some people talk about the "waste of space". I don't buy that. With the large screens we have today there is plenty of space, specially if your panels are "light" and relatively thin. With a Full HD 24' screen and 1920x1080 for example, you have the space without problem. By the way, why have a screen like this for working? For watching Blu-Ray Discs? :lol:

But I agree with the "new" and stupid current screen sizes, in the laptops for instance, two panels may not be optimal.

About Clem, we'll see what he will do. Just, let's waiting... :roll:
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby craig10x on Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:29 pm

Yup...i have a 17.3" screen on my toshiba laptop and it is my "desktop replacement" computer....so maximizing screen space is important to me....it would be even more critical if i had a 15" screen like many do on laptops...Also, i like the look of the 1 panel on bottom and i always preferred the slab style menus over the fan out variety....but that's me :lol:

That is also why i love google chrome...aside from other aspects of it i like, i appreciate that it takes up minimal "real estate" on the screen... :wink:

Sure, you could stay with older versions of mint of course...but i like to "forge" on to the newer versions... :)

I'm sure Clem will figure out how to make it look good and "minty" as usual...he seems to be very talented in that department...
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby linuxviolin on Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:32 pm

craig10x wrote:Yup...i have a 17.3" screen on my toshiba laptop and it is my "desktop replacement" computer....so maximizing screen space is important to me....it would be even more critical if i had a 15" screen like many do on laptops..

Yes, this is as I said: "I agree with the "new" and stupid current screen sizes, in the laptops for instance, two panels may not be optimal."
Last edited by linuxviolin on Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby thunderkiss65 on Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:33 pm

HardyH wrote:Drop Gnome3/Unity as DE completely, make LXDE the default Desktop in 'Standard' Mint 12, so Lubuntu would be a good base for Mint 12. If people want Gnome 3 or Unity they can install it from the software packages. Not including Gnome 3 out of the box would be a hint towards the Gnome devs as well as to Ubuntu that their shiny unuseable toy DEs are not a good idea. Just look at Ubuntu Studio, they also have dropped Gnome as standard DE, cause Gnome 3 does not match their targetted users, so they switched from Gnome to XFCE. Maybe the Gnome/Canonical devs wake up when they see that one of the most popular linux distros does not include their new shiny tablet Shells out of the box.
H.


I whole-heartedly agree. I switched from Ubuntu. I am strongly opposed to "the user is wrong" attitude of the gnome team. Freedom.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby zerozero on Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:44 pm

R&D started on Gnome 3. Although the new desktop is extremely different than what we’re aiming for, it looks extremely promising from a technical point of view and easy to modify and improve upon. We’re planning to do some R&D on Gnome 2 as well in order to assess the work involved in maintaining it within Linux Mint. Of course, all you probably want to know is whether Mint 12 will come with Gnome 3, Gnome 2 or something else.. and I’m afraid you’ll need to wait a little more before we can tell you for sure. At this stage it might go either way, or it’s possible we might support both versions of Gnome going forward. We’re aware of what the community wants, we’ve got a precise idea of what we want to achieve, and based on the technicalities, and confidence we have in these two technologies, not only now, but for the future, we’ll take our time and make the right decision.

Clem wrote this friday on the blog http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1816 and i think that is relevant to this topic
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby randomizer on Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:21 am

craig10x wrote:And for myself, actually, i was never too fond of what is called the "classic gnome2 desktop layout" with 2 panels and with the applications menu fanning out from the top...the first thing i did (when running actual Ubuntu) was to delete the bottom panel, move the top panel to the bottom and change the menu to something like say, the gnomenu which is so much more like the "linux mint' style menu)...i was ALWAYS more comfortable with that...and that was one of the initial things that attracted me to Linux Mint...Which has a customized version of "classic gnome2 desktop"...

I also like the way KDE does it, with just one panel on bottom and the default "kick off menu".....

I'm glad I'm not the only person :) The top is not for panels, it's for window titlebars and window controls. My top corners are precious, don't put clocks and widgets in the way! :P
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby AlbertP on Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:57 am

I have used 'stock' Gnome 2 in the past and after getting used to it, it wasn't too bad. Though I agree that two taskbars on one screen is just a waste of space. Maximized windows aren't 1280x776 (800 minus 24px for 1 panel) but 1280x752.

I'm having one program that only just fits within my screen size (though the vertical scrollbar is still there due to black bars at the top and bottom).
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby xenopeek on Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:26 am

AlbertP wrote:I have used 'stock' Gnome 2 in the past and after getting used to it, it wasn't too bad. Though I agree that two taskbars on one screen is just a waste of space. Maximized windows aren't 1280x776 (800 minus 24px for 1 panel) but 1280x752.

I'm having one program that only just fits within my screen size (though the vertical scrollbar is still there due to black bars at the top and bottom).

Yep, this is from the "what where they ever thinking" department :D Two panels? One is enough as proven by Linux Mint, and I'm not going back to two :wink: Especially these days with widescreen monitors, it makes no sense all that empty space on top and at bottom...
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby AlbertP on Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:30 am

Some months ago someone came into the Linux Mint Chat and asked how to get stock Gnome 2 back. Our desktop with 1 panel is still not the ideal desktop for everyone.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby zerozero on Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:33 am

you have a recent (ish) topic in the forum where the OP asks how s/he can get again gnome2 back, because doesn't like the gnome3 look of mint (<referring to the way mint sets the desktop)
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