Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby xenopeek on Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:43 pm

proxima_centauri wrote:But as a happy GNOME3 user, I must be another "targeted dumb user" and an "idiot" for using such 'atrocious' software. :shock:

Kindly show some respect to developers, users and the community.


I think it would be interesting to see Linux Mint make some innovations and contribute it's own extensions to gnome-shell with GNOME3 to give us an revamped desktop that can be similar enough for the community to appreciate.

Yeah, let's not start a flame war :wink: I know lots of developers who are happy with Unity for example, it "just works" for them. Linux is about freedom of choice, freedom to do it your own way. Because Unity and GNOME3 Shell didn't "just work" for me, and I just found a new happy home at Linux Mint, I do share some fear with other forum members about the future. But I'm confident Clem and the team will deliver, and I'm sure GNOME3 will mature in reconfigurability / options as time goes on.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby HardyH on Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:16 pm

proxima_centauri wrote::

Kindly show some respect to developers, users and the community.



I am showing the same respect to the Gnome Shell devs as they show to me and a huge part of the commuity: None.

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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby AlbertP on Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:47 pm

Not as I know. I also think this would be a good desktop for future Mint versions.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby xenopeek on Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:04 pm

Well, I must say I was very much impressed with GNOME 3 Shell, especially notifications, and would have wanted to continue to use it. But the not having a list of open windows was just too much a departure from my daily workflow. Hence the move to Linux Mint :D But agreed, as GNOME 3 Shell matures, I'd like to see a Linux Mint based on that also.

The Fedora 15 version of GNOME 3 Shell had some really silly bugs, like no way to close certain windows, except with a keyboard shortcut (the Help -> About screen in Gedit IIRC). This may have just been GTK migration issues, but didn't help me sticking with it. I'm sure all these things will get ironed out within the next year. So perhaps Linux Mint 13 or 14 with GNOME 3 Shell?
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby zerozero on Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:36 pm

Vincent, as a F15-shell user since late march and a LMDE-shell user whenever it doesn't break on me :lol: i must say that the first has come a long way in stability and features; those 2 issues you mentioned i can't replicate them atm in a fully updated install;

anyway we can't forget:
1- gnome3 has about 6 months, so a lot of things are still "on the move"
2- we don't really have a mainstream distro featuring gnome3 (be it the shell or the fallback-mode) to show everything we can get out of this; fedora is shipping gnome3 almost vanilla (as they always did with gnome2);
so any kind of comparison or rant is unfair, because, as i said before
the questions here is:
1- we are comparing a raw gnome3 (as it came out of the devs hands) with what? where is that classic gnome2 desktop to compare to?
a- Mint10's desktop?
b- Ubuntu 10.04's desktop?
c- Fedora 14's desktop?
- you compare those 3 and you see the differences, every distro took the raw gnome2 and modded according to their view of a "perfect working interface" - well maybe fedora did it less;
- so, it's an unfair comparison, gnome2.32 is not what you see when you boot a mint10 live-cd, there's hours and hours of work there to redo, undo and change what was done by the gnome devs;


now probably the "one million dollar" question is "is gnome3 - the shell - the perfect DE?
well, in short, for me no; has very nice features:
- the notifications you mention;
- the active workspaces - no DE does it this way AFAIK;
- the way you can change any behaviour or aspect with a piece of css code;
but KDE is still miles ahead
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby linuxviolin on Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:55 pm

craig10x wrote:i'd hate to have to abandon gnome as it is my favorite desktop...

Well, I did this since some time now, as I said. GNOME is dead and its developers are not worth we use their product ever/yet. ( I already hear proxima_centauri screaming here :D :lol:)

proxima_centauri wrote:But as a happy GNOME3 user, I must be another "targeted dumb user" and an "idiot" for using such 'atrocious' software. :shock:

Yes. :P

proxima_centauri wrote:Kindly show some respect to developers, users and the community.

Yes and no. When the developers make cr**, you have the right to say it, you must say it.

proxima_centauri wrote:I think it would be interesting to see Linux Mint make some innovations and contribute it's own extensions to gnome-shell with GNOME3 to give us an revamped desktop that can be similar enough for the community to appreciate.

If you say so. We could rather think this could be just a waste of time instead working on much important things... :roll:

zerozero wrote:FUD

No, truth, more or less.

And the fallback mode sucks too.

HardyH wrote:I am showing the same respect to the Gnome Shell devs as they show to me and a huge part of the commuity: None.

I'm relatively with you on this case... :-)
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby KBD47 on Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:05 pm

With the Unity desktop at least I feel like I can get to my computer, with Gnome 3 I feel like there is a wall between me and my computer. I hope the Mint developers do not underestimate the amount of Gnome 3 hate. I would rather see a main Mint version of Unity than Gnome 3.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby cra1g321 on Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:54 pm

The main version should have Gnome 3, though im not sure if ubuntu should still be the base.

Then i think LMDE testing should have XFCE only, then there should be a stable LMDE for the fluxbox, lxde etc editions

IMO unity is a disaster, i tried out the new version a few days ago, and could not figure out where to find all of my apps in these new lens things.
Ended up having to watch a video to find out, where the guy compares Gnome 3 and unity, think he said it takes 5 clicks just access a menu that shows all of the apps installed.

5 clicks are way better than 2 !! :wink: :evil:
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby wyrdoak on Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:21 pm

cra1g321 wrote:5 clicks are way better than 2 !! :wink: :evil:


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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby HardyH on Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:02 pm

linuxviolin wrote:
craig10x wrote:i'd hate to have to abandon gnome as it is my favorite desktop...

Well, I did this since some time now, as I said. GNOME is dead and its developers are not worth we use their product ever/yet. ( I already hear proxima_centauri screaming here :D :lol:)

proxima_centauri wrote:But as a happy GNOME3 user, I must be another "targeted dumb user" and an "idiot" for using such 'atrocious' software. :shock:

Yes. :P

proxima_centauri wrote:Kindly show some respect to developers, users and the community.

Yes and no. When the developers make cr**, you have the right to say it, you must say it.

proxima_centauri wrote:I think it would be interesting to see Linux Mint make some innovations and contribute it's own extensions to gnome-shell with GNOME3 to give us an revamped desktop that can be similar enough for the community to appreciate.

If you say so. We could rather think this could be just a waste of time instead working on much important things... :roll:

zerozero wrote:FUD

No, truth, more or less.

And the fallback mode sucks too.

HardyH wrote:I am showing the same respect to the Gnome Shell devs as they show to me and a huge part of the commuity: None.

I'm relatively with you on this case... :-)


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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby KBD47 on Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:25 pm

More and more with Unity, on apps not already on the taskbar, I use the search function. Gnome 2 is much easier, and I would love to see a fork of gnome, but it probably won't happen, so lesser evil, gnome 3 or unity, I would choose unity. But it's sad that the two main Linux distros will likely have crappy interfaces. Should I hope somehow Mint will work a miracle with gnome 3? I just don't see how they fix it.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby linuxviolin on Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:50 pm

It looks like GNOME Shell 3.1 is still designed for 3-y.o. kids who need huge icons (w. tiny labels) instead of menus: http://www.linuxbsdos.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/gnome3desktop2.png
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby monkeyboy on Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:10 pm

KBD47 wrote:With the Unity desktop at least I feel like I can get to my computer, with Gnome 3 I feel like there is a wall between me and my computer. I hope the Mint developers do not underestimate the amount of Gnome 3 hate. I would rather see a main Mint version of Unity than Gnome 3.
KBD47


WOW, I did not know you could not get to the comand line in G3, that is distressing.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby ThistleWeb on Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:02 pm

monkeyboy wrote:
KBD47 wrote:With the Unity desktop at least I feel like I can get to my computer, with Gnome 3 I feel like there is a wall between me and my computer. I hope the Mint developers do not underestimate the amount of Gnome 3 hate. I would rather see a main Mint version of Unity than Gnome 3.
KBD47


WOW, I did not know you could not get to the comand line in G3, that is distressing.


It would be if true.
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby zerozero on Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:32 pm

apparently you can :lol:
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby gabranth on Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:50 am

unity/Gnome 3 sucks im pretty sure the project got taken over by bill gate worshipers
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby craig10x on Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:18 pm

I just took a look at the unity thing on a live dvd of ubuntu 11.10 beta1....The unity bar looks kind of dumb on the side of the screen, Icons are HUGE :shock:
Looks very stupid, actually.. :mrgreen: Eye Candy with no logical purpose...But actually much worse is that a lot of "control" has been taken out by ubuntu...You can't move the panel down to the bottom... the panel has very few functional features on it...

For the life of me, i could not find the screensavers adjustment....doesn't look like it even has screensavers function anymore! In appearance section...doesn't look like applications fonts can be adjusted....very few themes to change the look to...limited power adjustments...

In the home folder, i didn't even see the "file" "edit" "view" etc etc Tabs! Do they even have them anymore?
Geez...what a mess...sooo much control taken away...very "dumbed down"....

I'm starting to wonder of Clem will be able to fashion a decent ubuntu based mint beginning with Mint 12 (and beyond)...
I'm starting to suspect that in order to keep my "sanity" :lol: I will have to go with kde and Kubuntu 11.10 when it finalizes!
After looking at this, KDE is suddenly becoming very APPEALING to me...it actually is much more logical then this mess....(and i don't care for the light versions of gnome like XFCE, etc...)

Unless Clem can do a "miracle" with Mint 12...i am sorry to have to say this but it will be goodbye to mint and hello to Kubuntu.... :(
Basically, not much choice and i am NOT going back to windows :wink:
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby xenopeek on Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:36 pm

craig10x wrote:... and i am NOT going back to windows :wink:

Well, that is at least something :wink: Unity puts each application's menu in the panel at the top, just like on OS X. Hence you couldn't find it in the window itself. Though Unity isn't for me either, I repeat I work with a lot of developers that are very happy with it. We don't like it, but others truly do (just like some people like KDE, for some to me unfathomable reason :lol:)

So let's not shoot the bird before it has flown (or something...) and just wait and see what Linux Mint 12 will bring, instead of speculating doom and the end of all things good and proper :D
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby craig10x on Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:12 pm

Thank You, Vincent :wink:
I guess i just got very discouraged while i was looking at the whole thing... :roll:
I'll try to stay "positive" and hope that Clem can work some miracles on it :lol:

Of course, i'd prefer to stay with the ubuntu based mint and go on with mint 12 and beyond (as the thread title describes...lol)....
The kde move would be more of desperation then anything else...I think kde looks very pretty actually, but always preferred gnome, that is until i took
a good hard look at ubuntu 11.10 today...After that KDE was looking very appealing suddenly... :mrgreen:

But you're right...and i will try to stay "positive" and fingers will be crossed all the way :)
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Re: Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

Postby linuxviolin on Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:35 pm

craig10x wrote:I just took a look at the unity thing on a live dvd of ubuntu 11.10 beta1....The unity bar looks kind of dumb on the side of the screen, Icons are HUGE :shock:
Looks very stupid, actually.. :mrgreen: Eye Candy with no logical purpose...

If you think that, then I guess you'll agree with what I said in my last post about GNOME Shell 3.1...

Vincent Vermeulen wrote:just like on OS X

I hate OS X, it is unusable and un-intuitive for me. And their last version is just cr** with many problems.

Vincent Vermeulen wrote:I work with a lot of developers that are very happy with it.

This is not an excuse, specially as many developers are... err, hmm... :roll:

About KDE, it's not too bad now, really, it is quite usable and good enough even if in another post I said: "the more I use KDE 4.7.00, the more I find Windows 7 better, and Windows XP faster... Oh, BTW, about KDE performance: http://ostatic.com/blog/kde-performance-boost-ahead" But given what they did with 4 at the beginning, the "break everything" model, hopefully they won't do the same thing with KDE 5... I read an article some time ago where a developer said there should not be a big "break", the unholy mess as said Linus, as for the passage of 3 to 4. Let's hope. We'll see.
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