Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

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Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby Shirai on Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:22 am

Hi Clem & team! Thank you for the wonderful distributions in the past.

I think it is a very good decision to stay with Gnome interface.
Here my wish for Mint 12:

I would love to have it with the new version 3 Kernel as well as with Gnome 3.0! (Can you already make any announcements?)

Best wishes
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby HardyH on Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:57 am

If Gnome 3 should ever be included in Mint, Linux Mint should most probably create a LMFP toy device (Linux Mint Fisher Price for tablets and subnetbooks) Edition that comes with Gnome 3. Gnome 3 is and will always be way too dumbed down, unuseable and too functionality castrated to include it in any serious desktop orientated distro.
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby poodle on Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:38 am

I disagree with above. While not a fan of Gnome 3 nor Unity, we have to admit that when used in fallback mode, Gnome 3 can be made indistinguishable from Gnome 2. It's a mere fact that we'll have to deal with the end of Gnome 2.
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby Forkjulle on Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:55 pm

Dumbing down the OS isn't a bad thing, so long as the brute power and speed remains. Linux users, in general, need to remove this almighty God complex and move with the times. Mint 11 is the best OS I've ever used, but the truth is that, compared to Apple and Microsoft's latest visual design, it's lagging a bit. I migrated to Mint because Unity doesn't work well on my 27" screen, but Unity is indeed visually sexy and cutting edge (although its polish could be a bit more polished).

I like Fedora's interface, but I don't like Fedora.

Yes, it's a personal choice, but I'm a creative person and I like fun aesthetics (and I like bragging to potential converts).

Change is good. But, like I said, so long as the power and speed remain.
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby AlbertP on Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:01 pm

Mint 12 will have the 3.0 kernel, as Ubuntu 11.10 on which Mint 12 will be based, also uses 3.0.
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby solar1951 on Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:45 pm

+1 for Gnome3. Because ? Gnome 2 series is dead - swimming against the current for too long is just fatigue, make it Minty G3 :wink:
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby proxima_centauri on Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:58 pm

HardyH wrote:Gnome 3 is and will always be way too dumbed down, unuseable and too functionality castrated to include it in any serious desktop orientated distro.

Not that Fedora or openSUSE are serious desktop distros by any means. :lol:

It's inevitable that we will have GNOME3 with LM12 - only thing left is how the desktop is implemented; gnomeshell, fallback mode, etc.
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby HardyH on Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:09 pm

proxima_centauri wrote:
HardyH wrote:Gnome 3 is and will always be way too dumbed down, unuseable and too functionality castrated to include it in any serious desktop orientated distro.

Not that Fedora or openSUSE are serious desktop distros by any means. :lol:

It's inevitable that we will have GNOME3 with LM12 - only thing left is how the desktop is implemented; gnomeshell, fallback mode, etc.


No, neither OpenSuse nor Fedora are still serious distro in my eyes, Gnome 3 turns every OS into a dumb functionless toy OS for kids, elderly noobss and internet constent consumption tablet users. In both camps, openSUSE and fedora, users run away screaming from Gnome 3, it's the worst thing since Konrad Zuse built the Z1 machine.
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby synaptic_d on Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:29 am

Funny how people are cutting up Gnome 3. I've been in information technology for 16+ years. I've used everything from DOS to Win7 along with many window managers for Linux and Gnome 3 has been the most productive environment for me. I initially was a hater, trying it out here and there. Then I decided to give it a thorough workout in my daily business operations and now I could never go back. Everything else feels too primitive. Once I learned the workings of Gnome 3 along with a few tweaks I can navigate around it quicker than I could with anything else. Sure it's still lacking in some areas but for me the pros outweigh the cons...and it's only going to get better as development continues.
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby HardyH on Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:31 pm

synaptic_d wrote:Funny how people are cutting up Gnome 3. I've been in information technology for 16+ years. I've used everything from DOS to Win7 along with many window managers for Linux and Gnome 3 has been the most productive environment for me. I initially was a hater, trying it out here and there. Then I decided to give it a thorough workout in my daily business operations and now I could never go back. Everything else feels too primitive. Once I learned the workings of Gnome 3 along with a few tweaks I can navigate around it quicker than I could with anything else. Sure it's still lacking in some areas but for me the pros outweigh the cons...and it's only going to get better as development continues.


Well,I have been using computers for almost 30 years from now, and I must say, Gnome 3 Shell and Unity are the worst graphical user interfaces in regards of usability I have ever tried on a non Apple computer. Even after giving Gnome 3 a one week chance, I still feel the urge to break something when I use the Shell for more than 5 minutes, cause the Shell's usability drives me crazy. I cannot navigate around quicker,it takes much much longer and more clicks/key strokes. I always have to press buttons on my keyboard,then everything gets reszied, then I am forced to move the mouse across the screen and back, have no overview of my open applications when I am working in one, Switching to a terminal to enter some commands while I parallelly edit text or build a website in another application window has become horrible, no simple move to the bottom panel which shows all open applications by name, one click, and I can work in the other applicatio, no, now it's pressing various keys, presing more keys or moving the mouse to the right side of the screen where I get a miniaturized view of my open workspaces ( not applications!) without name or description of teh applications running in this worksace, clicking on one workspace, pressing another key, Horrible, horrible, horrible. Might work on Tablets which are used by noobs for using nothing more than a webbrowser, some social networking stuff and a music player, but productive work is impossible that way, My workflow which has been established over years is not woring anymore, becsuse some 'design over functionality ' designers have decided it's best to work the Tox device way. I'd rather use a tiling WM than Gnome Shell (same for unity).
By the way; Gnome 3 Fallback will disappear? So Vincent Untz is a liar, cause he said some months ago, fallback will stay in Gnome 3. Or did he mean just Gnome 3.0 to calm down angry Shell-rejectors?
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby Forkjulle on Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:38 pm

HardyH wrote:
synaptic_d wrote:Funny how people are cutting up Gnome 3. I've been in information technology for 16+ years. I've used everything from DOS to Win7 along with many window managers for Linux and Gnome 3 has been the most productive environment for me. I initially was a hater, trying it out here and there. Then I decided to give it a thorough workout in my daily business operations and now I could never go back. Everything else feels too primitive. Once I learned the workings of Gnome 3 along with a few tweaks I can navigate around it quicker than I could with anything else. Sure it's still lacking in some areas but for me the pros outweigh the cons...and it's only going to get better as development continues.


Well,I have been using computers for almost 30 years from now, and I must say, Gnome 3 Shell and Unity are the worst graphical user interfaces in regards of usability I have ever tried on a non Apple computer. Even after giving Gnome 3 a one week chance, I still feel the urge to break something when I use the Shell for more than 5 minutes, cause the Shell's usability drives me crazy. I cannot navigate around quicker,it takes much much longer and more clicks/key strokes. I always have to press buttons on my keyboard,then everything gets reszied, then I am forced to move the mouse across the screen and back, have no overview of my open applications when I am working in one, Switching to a terminal to enter some commands while I parallelly edit text or build a website in another application window has become horrible, no simple move to the bottom panel which shows all open applications by name, one click, and I can work in the other applicatio, no, now it's pressing various keys, presing more keys or moving the mouse to the right side of the screen where I get a miniaturized view of my open workspaces ( not applications!) without name or description of teh applications running in this worksace, clicking on one workspace, pressing another key, Horrible, horrible, horrible. Might work on Tablets which are used by noobs for using nothing more than a webbrowser, some social networking stuff and a music player, but productive work is impossible that way, My workflow which has been established over years is not woring anymore, becsuse some 'design over functionality ' designers have decided it's best to work the Tox device way. I'd rather use a tiling WM than Gnome Shell (same for unity).
By the way; Gnome 3 Fallback will disappear? So Vincent Untz is a liar, cause he said some months ago, fallback will stay in Gnome 3. Or did he mean just Gnome 3.0 to calm down angry Shell-rejectors?
H.


Well, as a creative with far less than 30 years computer experience, I must say that Unity is one of the best graphical interfaces I've used. I like big clicky-buttons with bling animation and colours. It makes my computing experience a lot more fun and creative. The reason why I use Mint, however, is not because I dislike Unity, but because it doesn't work well on a high resolution screen. Menus are too far apart, for example. Mint works well on large resolutions. Plus, I like Mint's polish.

If navigating takes a few seconds longer on Unity / Gnome Shell, then I'm okay with that. It's unbelievable how resistant to change so many techies are. Whine, whine, whine.
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby d00med on Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:06 pm

Gnome 3 with a customized fallback mode would be nice, but if Mint goes with either Unity or Gnome Shell, you'll see a mass exodus from the distro in the same way Ubuntu is currently enjoying.
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby Forkjulle on Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:11 pm

d00med wrote:Gnome 3 with a customized fallback mode would be nice, but if Mint goes with either Unity or Gnome Shell, you'll see a mass exodus from the distro in the same way Ubuntu is currently enjoying.

Mass exodus? I've been reading this all over, but I've seen no statistics to verify it. In fact, I've got a hunch that Ubuntu is enjoying mass growth, based on some reports I've seen.
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby DrHu on Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:15 pm

Forkjulle wrote:Dumbing down the OS isn't a bad thing, so long as the brute power and speed remains. Linux users, in general, need to remove this almighty God complex and move with the times. Mint 11 is the best OS I've ever used, but the truth is that, compared to Apple and Microsoft's latest visual design, it's lagging a bit.

Dumbing down the OS isn't a bad thing...
Oh yes it is, for a desktop OS

The two attributes you mention, especially brute power are contradictory with dumbed down interface
    You can't get access to power without more complexity, such as shell access and the option(s) to use it to full advantage
--just consider two creative type applications, such as Photoshop (yes i know it isn't on Linux) or some video editing program; such users want it all in terms of performance power and customization, a dumb interface just wont' do it for them..

A creative person can't really be satisfied with a toy (dumbed down) interface; they, at least as afar as I know want all the power and control available, and complain if it isn't there for them..

BIG buttons and simplified interfaces might be useful in some jobs, such as tower crane operator or factory or mining controls, but not much else
--even in airplanes, a too simplified interface doesn't quite make it..
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby Forkjulle on Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:25 pm

"You can't get access to power without more complexity, such as shell access and the option(s) to use it to full advantage"

What "access" do I want? I'm very happy, as are my contemporaries, with a pleasing interface. Our machines are powerful and everything works. Why do I need to have a rubbish-looking interface?

A creative person can't really be satisfied with a toy (dumbed down) interface; they, at least as afar as I know want all the power and control available, and complain if it isn't there for them..

From that statement, I can assume that you're not a creative person. In which case, your comment is mere conjecture based on a biased view. Also, your use of "toy" is patronising and elevates you to some sort of self-centred superficial position of superiority.
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby wolverine_tech on Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:30 pm

My tuppence worth on desktop environments:

History:
Tried GNOME Shell (for < 30 min) when Fedora 15 was released. Hated it like I hate politics. (In hindsight, I should have spent more time learning it.)
Was never a fan of KDE. Tried KDE 4.6.5 on PCLOS. After a day of playing with it, actually liked it.
Tried Unity on Ubuntu 11.04. Hmm, buggy but not too bad. But wait, didn't GNOME shell have a similar interface?
So tried GNOME Shell again on OpenSUSE 11.4. Loved it. Quite intuitive. True: there are flaws, While I'm fine with them shipping it as a simple interface, I hope future versions have more options to make it more configurable. Regarding accessing stuff, if one uses GNOME-Do, calling up applications is exactly the same as in GNOME 2.x .

Lessons learnt:
Truth be told, I feel users can adapt to any DE, given enough time. But shouldn't have to just for sake of change. However, as a package evolves, it can outpace it's native desktop environment. Perhaps that's what caused the developers to move onto KDE 4.x and GNOME 3.x . Looking at how good KDE has become today, I want (and urge others too) to give GNOME (still my fav DE) a chance.

All hopes pinned on Mint 12 (still using Mint 9 ).

End of rambling.
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby AlbertP on Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:06 am

You can keep using Mint 9, a long term support (LTS) version, till Mint 13, the next LTS, is out.
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby wolverine_tech on Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:17 am

by AlbertP on Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:06 am
You can keep using Mint 9, a long term support (LTS) version, till Mint 13, the next LTS, is out.


True, but I reaallyy want to see Mint's take on GNOME shell :D
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby AlbertP on Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:54 am

We don't yet know whether it'll be Gnome Shell or fallback mode. Clem's still working on it.
Given the limitations of Gnome 3 it may not yet be as good as the Mint 10/11 desktop but I'm sure Clem will manage to release a desktop that is worthy to be used in the main edition of Linux Mint.
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Re: Mint 12 with Kernel & Gnome 3!

Postby proxima_centauri on Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:04 am

AlbertP wrote:We don't yet know whether it'll be Gnome Shell or fallback mode. Clem's still working on it.

Given that that Clem is working on gnome-shell extensions, I think it's reasonable to say there's a good chance it will be using gnome-shell.
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