help grub... again

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help grub... again

Postby Acid_1 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:32 am

ok, i installed windows neptune. now, i have grub back up and running, however, i can't seem to find how to make windows an added partition. here's the output of sudo fdisk -l

Code: Select all
Disk /dev/sda: 60.0 GB, 60011642880 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 7296 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0xd0f4738c

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1               1        1824    14651248+  83  Linux
/dev/sda2            5348        7165    14603085    5  Extended
/dev/sda3            1825        5347    28298497+   7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda4   *        7166        7296     1052257+  82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sda5            5348        7165    14603053+   7  HPFS/NTFS

Partition table entries are not in disk order


/dev/sda3 has all my documents, movies, etc. it's formatted ntfs for filesharing between windows and linux. and /dev/sda2 extends to /dev/sda5. And lastly, my linux-swap has a boot flag. why? Also, I can't mount my drive with the media, sda3. It wont let me. I had shutdown properly through mint and neptune. pls help.

Screenshot--dev-sda - GParted.png
Screenshot--dev-sda - GParted.png (42.92 KiB) Viewed 1090 times

Screenshot-menu.lst (-boot-grub) - gedit.png
Screenshot-menu.lst (-boot-grub) - gedit.png (53.03 KiB) Viewed 1092 times
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Re: help grub... again

Postby Husse on Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:27 am

What is Windows Neptune??
It's a Windows that was never released....
Your chainloder looks OK except that it should read root (hd0,4)
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Re: help grub... again + another problem now too

Postby Acid_1 on Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:32 pm

Ya. i booted up to take husse's advice. So, the dell logo goes up, and then i wait the 2 seconds before I get grub, as usual, then, "ERROR BOOTING OPERATING SYSTEM". That's all I got. Fortunately, I have supergrub disc, so i am able to get it, however, I would like to know how to fix this. All i've changed to my menu.lst is the hd location for windows to hd0,4.
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Re: help grub... again

Postby Husse on Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:29 am

I think
ERROR BOOTING OPERATING SYSTEM".

is a Windows error message
Did you try to repair grub because you have to do that if you install Win after Linux
http://www.linuxmint.com/wiki/index.php ... _your_grub
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Re: help grub... again

Postby Husse on Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:34 pm

I lost track of this post, but I suddenly remembered that you seemed to have this Neptune in sda5.
I think XP and Vista may handle that but earlier versions of Win definitely could not boot from anything but C
You need to trick your Neptune into believing that it boots from C, it's called remapping and looks like
map (hd0) (hd2)
map (hd2) (hd0)
But this only works for disks as far as I have found out, not for partitions and I don't have some trick up my sleeve to get your sea god started
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Re: help grub... again

Postby Acid_1 on Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:37 pm

lol. I agree. Here;s my solution. Install Neptune first, then Mint. Works every time :P
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Re: help grub... again

Postby Husse on Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:57 pm

There is a possibility to hide partitions in grub but unfortunately this only helps if you have more than one Win partition
Have to investigate further...
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Re: help grub... again

Postby Acid_1 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:34 am

Thank you. If you find out how to fix it, I'd like to know :P. I'm sure this is not the last time that I'll install Windows, and I don't feel like wiping my drive each time, just to get it to work. lol
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Re: help grub... again

Postby Fred on Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:51 am

Acid_1,

Try something like this:

title Windows XP
map (hd0,0) (hd0,2)
map (hd0,2) (hd0,0)
rootnoverify (hd0,2)
makeactive
chainloader +1
savedefault
Boot

or

title Windows XP
map (hd0,0) (hd0,4)
map (hd0,4) (hd0,0)
rootnoverify (hd0,4)
makeactive
chainloader +1
savedefault
Boot


Which ever applies. I don't have time right now to go back through your posts to see exactly what you have now.

You can remap partitions as well as hard drives.

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Re: help grub... again

Postby Fred on Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:32 am

Acid_1,

Sorry for having to be so brief, but real life has me kinda busy right now.

Some older versions of Windows had problems booting from a logical drive, even with Grub tricks. Windows always wants to be on the first primary partition of the first drive. Grub can usually fool most Windows versions into working in other locations. The operative word here is "usually." :-)

I don't know about Neptune. I have never even heard of it. So no opinion. What I posted does work for XP however. Having said that I would always try to put Windows where it wants to be. Long term, you will have a more reliable and stable Windows system. Wow, did I just put reliable, stable, and Windows in the same sentence!? That's a first! :-)

You might look at the topic link below. There is some good commentary there between muskratmx and Husse about this topic, and some by me on chainloading Linux and grub operation. Some of this might be helpful to you.

http://linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... a&start=15

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Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

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Re: help grub... again

Postby Husse on Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:46 am

@ Fred
I think I know grub reasonably well (even if we can dispute my use of the word pointer for grub in MBR :))
but I'm trying to grasp the chainloading and mapping part
Can you map partitions?
Got it working?
The grub manual gives the impression you can't, but it's a bit lacking in readability
And I can't try it out - XP is where it "should" be
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Re: help grub... again

Postby Fred on Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:36 am

Husse,

The technically correct answer to the question about remapping partitions is yes, it can be done. And yes I have done it before and had it work. As you probably know, I don't use Windows, but I have done it on computers for other people.

The practical answer to the question is maybe. Let me explain. If you are talking about Windows ME on the 6th logical partition of the second drive, forget it. The only way you will boot that is with a size 12 combat boot! At least I have never been able to get it to boot.

If you are talking about getting two copies of XP, both on primary partitions and neither on the first partition, to boot then yes you can get both to boot. It requires some clever use of the hide and unhide commands and also the remapping command. I have done this also, but I admit that there was some trial and error involved. At least there was for me.

If you have one copy of XP on a primary partition, but not the first one, the remapping command will usually do the trick for you. This is not too difficult to accomplish. I have done this several times.

When it comes to logical partitions, that is a different story. I have never been able to do much with booting any Windows from a non-first logical partition. I have been told that it is possible, but I have never done it or seen it done with my own eyes.

I think if I were you I would pick muskratmx's brain about this. I believe he has had a lot more experience at booting Windows in strange places than I have. Another user here that I think has had a good bit of experience in this area is probably Chi. I go out of my way to avoid having to do stuff like that. :-)

I don't have a computer around now that has Windows on it at all so I can't play with the various positions now. The boot stanzas I posted above, I did for memory but I think the form is correct, and should work with Windows XP on a non-first primary partition. If my memory is correct, which can't always be relied on anymore. :-)

As far as the pointer analogy, Muskratmx is technically correct. The kernel is the part in the mbr. and with the stage 1.5 and stage 2 modules it does make a complete, though limited, operating system.

But, as I myself pointed out later in the thread, it is easier for me to think in terms of pointers. As long as you understand that it is a gross simplification for practical application use, I see no harm in the analogy.

If you will look at my post in the other thread about chainloading Linux you can see how that works. It is pretty simple once you get the hang of it. and it does have several advantages over the automatic installer's boot stanzas. Just because I used a separate master boot partition doesn't mean that it has to be done that way. You can use the Mint /boot as the master boot for the other installs if you prefer.

If I can help you understand something I will be happy to share what little I know with you.

I hope this was a little bit helpful. :-)

Fred
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Re: help grub... again

Postby Acid_1 on Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:36 am

*sigh* all this for iTunes...
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Re: help grub... again

Postby Husse on Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:05 pm

@ Acid_1
Well - in this topic I got some good tips on grub - the part I don't know that well
We've sort of invaded your topic :)
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Re: help grub... again

Postby Fred on Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:23 am

Acid_1,

I too apologize for high jacking your thread. I do tend to get carried away sometimes. :-)

Having said that, there is a lot more going on in a forum like this than just solving a user's problem. It is a learning experience for all of us, even people that never post.

Everybody contributes. One user presents a problem that others would never run into on their own. Everybody gets to look at the problem and offer suggestions. We all get to learn from each other. I have learned a lot just by reading the posts of others. Both the problems as well as those giving solutions. It's the sharing and pooling of knowledge that allows a forum like this to work for its' intended purpose.

The next time I try to high jack your thread just say, "Fred, shut up." :-)

Fred
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