Dual boot Win8 & Mint15

Questions about Grub, UEFI,the liveCD and the installer
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srs5694
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Re: Dual boot Win8 & Mint15

Post by srs5694 »

Since you're booting rEFInd->GRUB->kernel, the rEFInd settings have no effect on how the kernel is booted; those are determined by your grub.cfg GRUB settings. You can edit this file directly, but when you run update-grub, they'll be regenerated based on settings in other files, such as the files in /etc/grub.d and /etc/default/grub. As piovrauz says, the "quiet" and "splash" options control the graphical vs. text-mode boot options, so you'd need to adjust those.

IMHO, if you're using rEFInd, it's better to cut GRUB out of the loop; it's not doing anything helpful and is just complicating matters. To do this, you'll need two things:
  • An EFI filesystem driver for whatever filesystem holds your kernel. If you've got a separate /boot partition, you'll need a driver for it; or if your /boot directory is part of your root (/) partition, you'll need the driver for it. rEFInd comes with drivers for ext2/3fs, ext4fs, ReiserFS, Btrfs, HFS+, and ISO-9660. You need to create a /boot/efi/EFI/refind/drivers or /boot/efi/EFI/refind/drivers_x64 directory and move the .efi file for the driver in question to that directory. (If you've mounted your ESP somewhere odd or if you've installed rEFInd somewhere other than EFI/refind on the ESP, you must adjust the path appropriately. Note that you must mount your ESP to copy the driver file to it.) See the [url=http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/drivers.html]rEFInd documentation page on drivers[/url] for more information.
  • A /boot/refind_linux.conf file. This file holds boot options that are passed to the kernel. It's probably not really necessary if /boot is an ordinary directory on your root (/) partition, but it is necessary if /boot is a separate partition. You can create it easily by running the mkrlconf.sh script that comes with rEFInd.
If you set this up correctly, you'll see one or more new options in rEFInd, which reveal names that include the string "vmlinuz" in them when you highlight them. These should boot straight to Linux, without involving GRUB. You can then adjust your kernel options by editing the /boot/refind_linux.conf file. If you use mkrlconf.sh to create this file, it will have three lines. The first sets the default options and the next two set options that you can access by hitting F2 or Insert in rEFInd.
piovrauz

Re: Dual boot Win8 & Mint15

Post by piovrauz »

Yep, I think it's grub OR rEFInd too, using both wouldn't make much sense.
The thing is mint installer doesn't allow to DON'T install grub (or I missed it). :P
srs5694
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Re: Dual boot Win8 & Mint15

Post by srs5694 »

piovrauz wrote:Yep, I think it's grub OR rEFInd too, using both wouldn't make much sense.
The thing is mint installer doesn't allow to DON'T install grub (or I missed it). :P
Once it's installed it's easy enough to ignore it, or even to uninstall it.
piovrauz

Re: Dual boot Win8 & Mint15

Post by piovrauz »

I remember old ubuntu and mint let user not install it too.
But yes, it's not difficult to ignore it or remove it later.
nobugs

Re: Dual boot Win8 & Mint15

Post by nobugs »

@srs5694,

Part of my refind.conf file. Do I need to uncomment internal, external, optical and manual to agree with the scanfor line. Particularly if I start say Mint 15 or 13 from a USB stick or a DVD.

refind.conf file:-
# Which types of boot loaders to search, and in what order to display them:
# internal - internal EFI disk-based boot loaders
# external - external EFI disk-based boot loaders
# optical - EFI optical discs (CD, DVD, etc.)
hdbios - BIOS disk-based boot loaders
biosexternal - BIOS external boot loaders (USB, eSATA, etc.)
cd - BIOS optical-disc boot loaders
# manual - use stanzas later in this configuration file
# Note that the legacy BIOS options require firmware support, which is
# not present on all computers.
# On UEFI PCs, default is internal,external,optical,manual
# On Macs, default is internal,hdbios,external,biosexternal,optical,cd,manual
#
scanfor internal,external,optical,manual

Although my system is booting fine now, save for the inability to hide the text on startup, I'm thinking of starting afresh and installing Mint 13. To do this, I would like to remove all traces of rEFInd from my system, get it working with grub and then install refind again. From my difficulties, I may have two versions of grub as well, as I have seen ver 1.99 and ver 2.00 appear when I was testing the solutions. Tried Googleearth last night and although it works fine, there are missing pixels in all the aerial views. Never had this before on other machines or distro's, so I don't know if it's Mint15 or the computer specs. So the best solution would be to start over. Might be a good idea to even kill off the partitions except for win and restore win8 from my backup and start over. @piovrauz has solved most of the computer quirks and is booting cleanly with Mint13 on his machine, only using grub though. I would like to get to that point, but I like the gui of refind. Any thoughts!

Cheers!
piovrauz

Re: Dual boot Win8 & Mint15

Post by piovrauz »

srs5694 wrote:[*]A /boot/refind_linux.conf file. This file holds boot options that are passed to the kernel.
He's saying you can also use that to remove the text and have the nice logo back (pretty sure you can add the backlight option here too). I had a read at the refind docs, and I think you can do it in the refind.conf too (the "
Creating OS Stanzas" seems relevant, exp the "options" switch in the menuentry section); well, you have to have thos menu defined, but I think it's easier than stting grub. ;)
nobugs wrote:I have seen ver 1.99 and ver 2.00 appear when I was testing the solutions.
Those are leftovers from your various installation: grub 1.99 is from mint 13 and grub 2.00 is from mint 15 ; you probably didn't "cleanup" completely before doing a new install (to be fair, first 2-3 reinstall I didn't too).

I'm really interested in trying out how mint 16 will behave, expecially in the acer_wmi/acpi...
srs5694
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Re: Dual boot Win8 & Mint15

Post by srs5694 »

nobugs wrote:@srs5694,

Part of my refind.conf file. Do I need to uncomment internal, external, optical and manual to agree with the scanfor line. Particularly if I start say Mint 15 or 13 from a USB stick or a DVD.

refind.conf file:-

Code: Select all

# Which types of boot loaders to search, and in what order to display them:
#  internal      - internal EFI disk-based boot loaders
#  external      - external EFI disk-based boot loaders
#  optical       - EFI optical discs (CD, DVD, etc.)
  hdbios        - BIOS disk-based boot loaders
  biosexternal  - BIOS external boot loaders (USB, eSATA, etc.)
  cd            - BIOS optical-disc boot loaders
Do not uncomment the preceding three lines; they're part of the description of what the options are. Instead....

Code: Select all

scanfor internal,external,optical,manual
Adjust the options here, on the "scanfor" line. For instance, add "hdbios" to the options if you want to tell rEFInd to give you BIOS boot options for an internal hard disk.
nobugs wrote:
Although my system is booting fine now, save for the inability to hide the text on startup, I'm thinking of starting afresh and installing Mint 13. To do this, I would like to remove all traces of rEFInd from my system, get it working with grub and then install refind again.[/quote]

If you did a rEFInd installation from a Debian package, the files will exist scattered about the Mint root partition and in the ESP's EFI/refind directory tree. The ones in the Mint root partition will be erased when you erase it to re-install Mint. Prior to re-installing Mint, mount the ESP somewhere (/boot/efi is the default) and delete that directory -- so something like "sudo rm -r /boot/efi/EFI/refind" will remove rEFInd from the ESP.

For that matter, if you have no other OS installed, you might want to just delete the ESP entirely and create a new one. I recommend making it 550MiB in size. (This can help avoid some weird glitches on some EFIs, although smaller is usually OK.) If you're keeping Windows, though, it's best to keep the ESP you've got now and just clean it out, since the Windows boot loader resides there too. Deleting the ESP will render Windows unbootable.
nobugs wrote:From my difficulties, I may have two versions of grub as well, as I have seen ver 1.99 and ver 2.00 appear when I was testing the solutions.
One or both of those may be on the ESP, as well, probably under EFI/linuxmint or EFI/{some_other_distribution_name}, so you can have a look for them and delete them manually. It's possible that one, or even both, of these installations is a BIOS-mode one, though. You can remove the key first stage of a BIOS-mode GRUB installation with:

Code: Select all

sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=440 count=1
Be aware, though, that this command is potentially quite risky. If you omit the "count=1" part, set the wrong value there (or as a "bs=" option), or set the wrong "of=" value, you could trash your hard disk or at least create new problems. Also, if something other than GRUB is installed in the MBR of the disk, you'll erase it.
piovrauz wrote:
srs5694 wrote:A /boot/refind_linux.conf file. This file holds boot options that are passed to the kernel.
He's saying you can also use that to remove the text and have the nice logo back (pretty sure you can add the backlight option here too). I had a read at the refind docs, and I think you can do it in the refind.conf too (the "
Creating OS Stanzas" seems relevant, exp the "options" switch in the menuentry section); well, you have to have thos menu defined, but I think it's easier than stting grub. ;)
Correct; however, the manual configuration via OS stanzas tends to be tricky for new users. It's generally better to stick with auto-detection of kernels and a /boot/refind_linux.conf file.
nobugs

Re: Dual boot Win8 & Mint15

Post by nobugs »

Thank you! :D :D
nobugs

Re: Dual boot Win8 & Mint15

Post by nobugs »

An interesting development!
After many, many hours stuffing around with this booting problem, a solution has emerged. An unintended consequence no less!

Was looking for ways to play bluray disks using VLC. Found instructions via a net search to add bluray components to VLC. Rebooted and bingo!

Computer boots straight into Mint15 and displays the Mint splash logo only. 5 secs shorter boot time as a bonus. 3 secs to shutdown. No mention of Win8 at all. But selecting F12 at boot fires up the grub menu with only two choices, Mint15 or Win. Win8 boots quickly as well. Grub didn't need update, just the reboot put things back together. All the refind files and/or duplications seemingly on my machine are now ignored and I have a nice clean startup interface. No fuss, no bother. Now if I can live with the bugs and quirks in Mint15 instead of reverting to Mint13, it might be better to sit out until Mint16 and hope these minor problems are fixed. If not, I'll go retro!

As the VLC add on script adds a folder "AACS" and a keydb.cfg to the ~/.config file, the massaging of the config file must have been enough to fix the boot paths that I have been agonising over. Speculation, but it worked!
Cheers! :D
srs5694
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Re: Dual boot Win8 & Mint15

Post by srs5694 »

nobugs wrote:Found instructions via a net search to add bluray components to VLC. Rebooted and bingo!
...
As the VLC add on script adds a folder "AACS" and a keydb.cfg to the ~/.config file, the massaging of the config file must have been enough to fix the boot paths that I have been agonising over. Speculation, but it worked!
It certainly wasn't a change to your ~/.config file that modified your boot process. That file is on a Linux filesystem, in your user home directory. The EFI can't read that file without the help of an EFI filesystem driver, and even with such a driver in place, it's extremely unlikely that any EFI boot loader would go looking there. Something else must have changed at the same time as your VLC modifications. Maybe you added some other program that triggered an automatic update to the NVRAM boot loader variables, or maybe you did a software update that modified your boot variables.
nobugs

Re: Dual boot Win8 & Mint15

Post by nobugs »

Probably....., but I don't remember altering any other programs except VLC, as it was my sole focus at the time. I had clean booted before attempting any alterations. It remains a mystery, but in the end it has provided a minimal booting regime. It's like there is no windows at all, completely hidden from view, (in the same manner other OS's are hidden from windows), like a pure linux machine. But it does beg the question.

Would it be possible to construct a discrete program, available and distributable with linux os's that would perform this function. It could be a bit of code that pops up when a linux is booted with a question to the user: eg. "Do you wish to install this linux (distro) as a dual boot with windows. Y/N." 'No" just boots as normal. 'Yes' creates the environment I now have on my machine with a message. "Next boot will assume linux is the prime system and load automatically. Press F12 at boot to select other installed systems." Lot's of assumptions here, but I just throw it out there for comment. Obviously, it would sit beside or on top of grub, but perhaps hide the confusing jargon currently required to set up a dual boot system. (not the actual install as this is now pretty easy to follow).

With mine now, I only press the on button, Mint logo (fade in/out splash) sits in the center of the screen and 45 secs later Mint is up and running. No other selections are required. As simple as!
piovrauz

Re: Dual boot Win8 & Mint15

Post by piovrauz »

nobugs wrote:Press F12 at boot to select other installed systems.
I'd like to stress out that the F12 menu is not the grub menu, but the FW boot manager menu (the one you set in the UEFI/BIOS/whatever Acer calls it).
I think you somehow just fixed the grub commandline (quiet splash). And probably "killed" rEFInd (since it should be in the FW bot menu as well).

About making a distro installer do it automatically, I think it depends on FW implementations and the preinstalled OS setup being standard, which is not the case.
The mint 13/14/15 setup does put the correct linuxmint entry in the FW after all, just it isn't the first, so it still boots windows 8.
nobugs

Re: Dual boot Win8 & Mint15

Post by nobugs »

Yep! You're quite correct. My bad. I often confuse the FW and grub boots, but in my head it's clear. Must be getting old and stupid!

Anyway, whatever happened has auto fixed what I was struggling with and I'm very happy about that. The rest is a bit of rambling and a wish list.

I could probably get 10 or more people to transfer to linux tomorrow, but the obstacles in the way just make it too hard and I don't have the time to suss out each individual case. That's my frustration! Linux is so good, particularly the Mint series and many others, that the overall installation and set up is a serious roadblock to others wanting to use these distros. My small band of converts simply will not go back to the other OS no matter what. It's a tribute to the ease and stability of Linux, if only getting past the first hurdle was a bit simpler. It scares people off before they get a chance to experience the delights of linux.

Thanks again for pointing out my elementary errors. :oops: Appreciated!
nobugs

Re: Dual boot Win8 & Mint15

Post by nobugs »

Hello piourauz,

Noticed you have posted your excellent dual boot tutorial as promised, under another heading. For anyone who has been following this topic, I have copied your pdf file to this area as well, so your efforts are seen by as many as possible. Hope you don't mind!

Kind regards,
piovrauz

Re: Dual boot Win8 & Mint15

Post by piovrauz »

Oh, thanks, having it here is a good idea, after all the how-to place of birth is this topic. ;)
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