Can LM 17 xfce and Mate be installed as dual boot?<SOLVED>

[boblynn]

<SOLVED> I learned two excellent ways to to install xfce and mate on the same computer (detailed below in this topic thread). A "Full" dual boot and a dual desktop session! Unfortunately, it did not solve my problem of LM 17 running very slow on my hardware but did answer my topic question. I will continue to work that problem in the other thread. - Thank you for all your help!
-----------------------------------
LM 17 Mate has slowed down my hardware to a crawl after installation even though I have more than enough capability for Mate. (AMD Anthlon XP 2400+ PC with S3 graphic chip VT8375 and 1GB Ram)

Can LM 17 xfce version be installed on the same system in a dual boot configuration?

Thanks.

[seeley]

Yes, of course, maybe you'll find a hint on
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=171200

[ytene]

In my personal experience, what you're trying to do has always proven to be pretty easy for ubuntu and derivative Operating Systems. I use this approach, today, to allow me to "dual boot" between Mate and KDE on top of Qiana/64, and it works perfectly...

1. Download and burn your choice of ISO
It doesn't really matter which one you use, but obviously common sense says that you should try and bring down one of the desktops that you wish to run with.

2. Build your "First" Desktop System
Do your install, pull in all the updates, and get yourself happy that you've got a working environment.

3. Bring Down Your Next Desktop
In my case I deploy KDE on top of Mate, so I fire up Synaptic, select the "KDE" collection, and pull in the packages I want. This is easy for KDE, because there are a useful set of "Meta Packages" (i.e. things like "KDE Games" and "KDE Multimedia" already written for you to use). In your case you can just bring in the xfce packages.

4. Sort out the X Display Manager
OK, this is likely to be the hardest part of the process for you. Basically, if xfce wants to bring in it's own GDM (Graphical Display Manager) it will do so. The installer (Synaptic) will then ask you to choose which you want to use - you can only use one using my approach. I have done this since ubuntu 5.04 (i.e the April 2005 release) without a hitch. I used to use GDM but now I use Mate's default. It just works.

5. Manage Your Sessions
Forgot to mention; with this approach you MUST set your environment to prompt you to log in EVERY time you boot. Now, when you boot your machine, you will get an extra bit at the login section, where you need to put in your ID and Password. It should be titled "Session", and in here you can select which Windowing system you want to launch (Mate or fxce). When you make a change from one to another, you will be asked, "Make this the new default, or change just for this session?" and you can take your pick.

6. That's It
It pretty much doesn't get any more complicated; you will be able to switch between multiple desktops. Should you get a burning desire to try out something new, you can simply employ a similar approach as identified here.

7. Fixes
One more thing worth mentioning. I tend to experiment quite a bit more than is good for me, especially with customising my desktop environment, and especially with KDE. Every now and then I'll do something to which my reaction is, "Ooops!"... With this multi-desktop configuration, however, a fix is easy. Simply log in to a different desktop and delete all the relevant files and folders from your profile. So, for KDE, I might delete the /home/{me}/.kde folder and all it's children. As long as you're thorough and remove everything, you can then log out, and when you log into KDE again, the system will faithfully re-build all your default folders from scratch. In 99.9999% of occasions, this will also undo any damage you did to your profile. Yes, you have to set up your favourite config again, but it's a small price to pay for an easy point of recover from a clean, known-good start...

Hope that helps!

[gtsfer]

Yes, you can just as Seeley stated. No offense intended here, but Ytene's post is NOT dual boot. It's a multi desktop environment with one OS installed, there's a difference. It may in fact satisfy your needs but can get tricky as installing multiple desktops (not always, depends which ones) sometimes present conflicts and issues. Fwiw.

EDIT: Some info on your machine might help diagnose your problem too. Can you run this in a Terminal Window, copy and paste results back here? And the Gparted screenshot that Seeley suggested is a good idea. Your system looks kind of light on RAM, but should be OK with Mate.

Code: Select all

inxi -Fx

[seeley]

Hi boblynn!
To help we need some detail concerning your installation (I suppose you want to keep it), and a good idea would be attaching a sreenshot of GParted.
If not yet installed, it's easy to do via Synaptic, Software Manager or Terminal.

[boblynn]

Thank you for your responses!

I am on a different pc at the moment and on my way out but I will run gparted and post a screen shot for you later.

Thanks for your help!

Here is my hardware info:
1GB Ram with 32MB dedicated to graphic chip

bob@bob-DK214 ~ $ inxi -Fx
System: Host: bob-DK214 Kernel: 3.13.0-24-generic i686 (32 bit, gcc: 4.8.2)
Desktop: N/A Distro: Linux Mint 17 Qiana
Machine: System: Compaq Presario 061 product: DK214A-ABA S4020WM NA210 version: 0n31411RE101SALSA10
Mobo: N/A model: KM266-8235 Bios: Phoenix version: AM37312 date: 03/17/2003
CPU: Single core AMD Athlon XP 2400+ (-UP-) cache: 256 KB flags: (sse) bmips: 3996.61 clocked at 1998.308 MHz
Graphics: Card: S3 Graphics VT8375 [ProSavage8 KM266/KL266] bus-ID: 01:00.0
X.Org: 1.15.1 drivers: savage (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) Resolution: 1024x768@70.0hz
GLX Renderer: Gallium 0.4 on llvmpipe (LLVM 3.4, 128 bits) GLX Version: 2.1 Mesa 10.1.3 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio: Card: VIA VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller driver: snd_via82xx port: ec00 bus-ID: 00:11.5
Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture ver: k3.13.0-24-generic
Network: Card: Realtek RTL-8100/8101L/8139 PCI Fast Ethernet Adapter driver: 8139too ver: 0.9.28 port: d800 bus-ID: 00:0b.0
IF: eth0 state: unknown speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: 00:40:ca:57:0c:32
Drives: HDD Total Size: 40.0GB (11.5% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: WDC_WD400EB size: 40.0GB
Partition: ID: / size: 19G used: 4.3G (25%) fs: ext4 ID: swap-1 size: 1.04GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap
RAID: No RAID devices detected - /proc/mdstat and md_mod kernel raid module present
Sensors: None detected - is lm-sensors installed and configured?
Info: Processes: 128 Uptime: 34 min Memory: 343.6/970.3MB Runlevel: 2 Gcc sys: 4.8.2 Client: Shell inxi: 1.8.4

[boblynn]

Apparently GParted is not installed with LM 17. Anyway, here is a screen shot of the partitions on this HD where I want to install LM 17 xfce along side of LM 17 Mate.

HD_Partition.png

[boblynn]

Here is the GParted screenshot below:

(What is sda6 & sda7? is that the failed attempt to install LM 17 xfce along side of Mate? Can I delete those partitions?)
Thanks!

GParted.png

[seeley]

Hi!
You are posting from a working MATE and want to keep it, I suppose.
If you did not use /dev/sda6 and sda7 to store Data, could be partitions concerning your attempt.
Did you partition before that?
You can access both partitions from your MATE edition and see the content.

You can use both partitions (after having formatted them as ext4 again) as root and home; maybe sda7 is a little to small for a root partition, so sda6 for root and sda7 for home would be one possibility. Or you delete them to organize new partition(s).

Edit:
Of course deleting and creating only one new partition (for root and home) is another possibility.
I recommend an own home partition.

Edit2:
If you install, you must choose boot loader target (Grub) = your root partition (not /dev/sda - normally first option), e.g. /dev/sda6 [example above].
An "update-grub" on your MATE normally will find your new XFCE edition.

[gtsfer]

Hello... I'm not sure what that extended partition is either. Are you using it? Your Linux swap partition is kind of small since you have 1 GB of RAM. Normally you would allocate 2x your RAM size for this. This may be impacting your performance as you noted that it seems slow.

I realize that you only have a 40 GB hard disk so your space is tight too. Seeley's post about sda6 and sda7 is on the money. Don't know what they are for either but they appear to have data on them. A normal (single boot system in this pic) might look typically something like this screen shot. Again, its a single boot system. And there are other ways to do it, just an example.

Gparted.png

[seeley]

On several forums you find lively discussion about swap; I tested it more than 5 years:
there was no performance difference if I had a swap partition or not, if it was primary or logical, at the end, in the middle or elsewhere.

Code: Select all

seeley@seeley-Q:~ > free -m
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:          3859       3033        825        141        166       1342
-/+ buffers/cache:       1524       2335
Swap:         6143          0       6143

The total amount of RAM ~ 4GB, used ~ 3 GB; buffers and cache makes up for ~ 1,5GB , which is about 40% of the total available RAM, which means the system is good.
On the last line, you can see that swap is available, ~ 6 GB (I choosed 1,5 * RAM), but not used.
At the moment of the output, 6 programms were running.

[boblynn]

Thank you for your prompt replies.

I tried to update this pc from LM 10 (default Mate?) to LM 17 Mate to take advantage of the long term support. I had problems from the start (detailed in another thread). After finally getting it running (after the 17 June update/bug fix) It runs unusually slow.

That is why I tried to install LM 17 xfce (from the Live DVD) along side of Mate in a dual boot mode to see if it would run better while I continue to work on the Mate version through the Forum.

I tried to run update-grub but it failed to locate the xfce partitions but clearly it is there in GParted.

(I think I read somewhere that LM 17 has to use "ubuntu" as the distribution in order for it to work so it may be the cause of the failed install of LM 17 xfce.)

All the xfce files "seem" to be there in the partitions.

Sorry seeley but I don't quite understand your Edit2 comment:
Edit2:
If you install, you must choose boot loader target (Grub) = your root partition (not /dev/sda - normally first option), e.g. /dev/sda6 [example above].
An "update-grub" on your MATE normally will find your new XFCE edition.

In the past when I installed additional versions on the pc it would find grub. During installation it found Mate and asked if I wanted to install "Linux" along side of it.

I will poke around in the xfce partition and see if the install tried to put another version of grub somewhere else.

Thanks for your help seeley and gtsfer

[seeley]

1. To make it clear, I'm hoping.
There are several ways to install a dual boot, let's pick up one I recommend for you:
Supposing you have a working Mint Mate and want to keep it. You could prepare partitions (there are several possibilities - you could ask again which one is the best) and during installation choose those partitions (at least one, root and - I recommend - home). Normally (dual boot!) you don't choose as boot loader target the MBR of the (first) hard disk, displayed in the last line as /dev/sda, but your root partition of XFCE , e.g. /dev/sda6; your first Grub (MATE) will find your XFCE edition. Then, after reboot, Grub Menu of MATE edition shows MATE at first place.
[But as I tested, it also is possible, to install Grub XFCE into the MBR to find your MATA edition - then, after reboot, your XFCE Grub Menu appears with XFCE at first place. But, no guarantee!]
2. My experiences: I never upgrade, I prefer a clean, new installation (sometimes with the old home partition). Upgrading takes more time and risks.
3. I don't trust any automatism (in the past to much people had trouble with "alongside").

[boblynn]

In my personal experience, what you're trying to do has always proven to be pretty easy for ubuntu and derivative Operating Systems. I use this approach, today, to allow me to "dual boot" between Mate and KDE on top of Qiana/64, and it works perfectly...

Thank you ytene for your suggestion. I hadn't considered a dual desktop approach. Unfortunately, my problem is that the pc is running unusually slow running LM 17 Mate so I doubt it would be able to support an additional desktop. I will have to try that on a more powerful pc some time

[karlchen]

Hello, boblynn.

Thank you ytene for your suggestion. I hadn't considered a dual desktop approach. Unfortunately, my problem is that the pc is running unusually slow running LM 17 Mate so I doubt it would be able to support an additional desktop. I will have to try that on a more powerful pc some time

There is a misunderstanding on your side.

You have installed Linux Mint 17 with the Mate desktop. You think it runs to slowly. You assume that your PC hardware is not strong enough for Linux Mint 17.
If you add the xfce desktop environment to your Linux Mint 17 Mate system, this will not increase the CPU load or the stress for the graphics card at all.
When Mint starts up, you are welcome by the MDM greeter screen.
At this point in time no complete desktop environment has been loaded at all, no Mate, no xfce.
Inside the MDM greeter screen, there is a "Session" link, which lets you choose whether to start a Mate desktop session or an xfce desktop session.
If you choose to startup a Mate desktop session, only the Mate modules will be launched, xfce will not be loaded.
Vice versa, if you choose to startup an xfce desktop session, only the xfce modules will be launched, Mate will not be loaded.

This means that at any given point in time only one Linux Mint desktop will be loaded and used, either Mate or xfce, no matter how many different desktop environments you add to your Linux Mint 17 installation, which started as a Linux Mint 17 Mate installation.

So if it turns out that your Linux Mint 17 runs faster with the xfce desktop, you simply make it your default desktop environment and ignore Mate.
By adding the xfce desktop to the Mate desktop you simply spare yourself the hassle of going through the complete Linux Mint installation process a second time. All you have to do is installing mint-meta-xfce and few more xfce software modules: cf xfce instead of mate

Summary:
So the answer to the question which you ask "Can Mint 17 xfce and Mate be installed as dual boot?" is: yes, they can. But there is no good reason to create a full dual boot system on your machine: Linux Mint 17 Mate plus Linux Mint 17 xfce. Simply add the xfce desktop to the existing Linux Mint 17 Mate installation. You can switch between the desktop environments at logon time. Provided xfce works at an acceptable pace on your machine, you may make xfce the default desktop environment in the MDM greeter screen.

Kind regards,
Karl

[boblynn]

1. To make it clear, I'm hoping.
There are several ways to install a dual boot, let's pick up one I recommend for you:
Supposing you have a working Mint Mate and want to keep it. You could prepare partitions (there are several possibilities - you could ask again which one is the best) and during installation choose those partitions (at least one, root and - I recommend - home). Normally (dual boot!) you don't choose as boot loader target the MBR of the (first) hard disk, displayed in the last line as /dev/sda, but your root partition of XFCE , e.g. /dev/sda6; your first Grub (MATE) will find your XFCE edition. Then, after reboot, Grub Menu of MATE edition shows MATE at first place.
[But as I tested, it also is possible, to install Grub XFCE into the MBR to find your MATA edition - then, after reboot, your XFCE Grub Menu appears with XFCE at first place. But, no guarantee!]
2. My experiences: I never upgrade, I prefer a clean, new installation (sometimes with the old home partition). Upgrading takes more time and risks.
3. I don't trust any automatism (in the past to much people had trouble with "alongside").

Thank you for your prompt reply seeley. I first "discovered" the world of Linux Mint at version 8 (Helena) and installed it "alongside" of Windows XP, and with the help of the Forum, got it running on my hardware. I used XP less and less and Mint more and more until Mint became my daily computer. I've never had a problem with installing new versions of Mint "alongside" of my current one (now running LM 13) until trying to install LM 17 on my secondary pc running LM 10.

I like your idea of having a dedicated home partition because I have been installing the new versions "alongside" of previouse (LTS) ones and accessing my previous home directory from the new version.

I agree that a clean new install is better that attempting an upgrade and that is what I have been doing with a dual boot of current and new versions and eventually moving to the new version when all the bugs are worked out

I had become so confident in Linux Mint that I did a clean install of Linux Mint 17 and completely wiped out the working version of LM 10 on my secondary pc in the process! (There is a lesson to be learned in there

Anyway, it appears that LM 17 xfce is already installed (in 2 different partitions) already so would it be easier to try and link/point to one of them at boot in the grub menu or just delete, or reformat, or clean install into those partitions using one for xfce and one for home? [Sorry but I guess I still don't understand your recommendation ]

This is what I am confused about:

Normally (dual boot!) you don't choose as boot loader target the MBR of the (first) hard disk, displayed in the last line as /dev/sda, but your root partition of XFCE , e.g. /dev/sda6; your first Grub (MATE) will find your XFCE edition. Then, after reboot, Grub Menu of MATE edition shows MATE at first place.

I guess I don't understand how to do that. Thank you for your patience

[seeley]

Anyway, it appears that LM 17 xfce is already installed (in 2 different partitions) already so would it be easier to try and link/point to one of them at boot in the grub menu

No!

or just delete

No,

or reformat, or clean install into those partitions using one for xfce and one for home? [Sorry but I guess I still don't understand your recommendation ]

Yes!

This is what I am confused about:
Normally (dual boot!) you don't choose as boot loader target the MBR of the (first) hard disk, displayed in the last line as /dev/sda, but your root partition of XFCE , e.g. /dev/sda6; your first Grub (MATE) will find your XFCE edition. Then, after reboot, Grub Menu of MATE edition shows MATE at first place.

Suggestion:
Boot to your live XFCE medium, run GParted, reformat your partitions sda6 and sda7 as ext4.
Start the installer, choosing "something else",
click on sda6, change > use as ext4, mount as "/", format (again) as ext4 ,
click on sda7, change > use as ext4, mount as "/home",
Change boot loader target

Grubsda6.png

and install!

After installation finished, reboot to MATE, run in Terminal

Code: Select all

sudo update-grub

reboot and normally you should see the MATE Grub Menu with Mint Mate and Mint Xfce!

[boblynn]

Hello, boblynn.

Thank you ytene for your suggestion. I hadn't considered a dual desktop approach. Unfortunately, my problem is that the pc is running unusually slow running LM 17 Mate so I doubt it would be able to support an additional desktop. I will have to try that on a more powerful pc some time

There is a misunderstanding on your side.

You have installed Linux Mint 17 with the Mate desktop. You think it runs to slowly. You assume that your PC hardware is not strong enough for Linux Mint 17.
If you add the xfce desktop environment to your Linux Mint 17 Mate system, this will not increase the CPU load or the stress for the graphics card at all.
When Mint starts up, you are welcome by the MDM greeter screen.
At this point in time no complete desktop environment has been loaded at all, no Mate, no xfce.
Inside the MDM greeter screen, there is a "Session" link, which lets you choose whether to start a Mate desktop session or an xfce desktop session.
If you choose to startup a Mate desktop session, only the Mate modules will be launched, xfce will not be loaded.
Vice versa, if you choose to startup an xfce desktop session, only the xfce modules will be launched, Mate will not be loaded.

This means that at any given point in time only one Linux Mint desktop will be loaded and used, either Mate or xfce, no matter how many different desktop environments you add to your Linux Mint 17 installation, which started as a Linux Mint 17 Mate installation.

So if it turns out that your Linux Mint 17 runs faster with the xfce desktop, you simply make it your default desktop environment and ignore Mate.
By adding the xfce desktop to the Mate desktop you simply spare yourself the hassle of going through the complete Linux Mint installation process a second time. All you have to do is installing mint-meta-xfce and few more xfce software modules: cf xfce instead of mate

Summary:
So the answer to the question which you ask "Can Mint 17 xfce and Mate be installed as dual boot?" is: yes, they can. But there is no good reason to create a full dual boot system on your machine: Linux Mint 17 Mate plus Linux Mint 17 xfce. Simply add the xfce desktop to the existing Linux Mint 17 Mate installation. You can switch between the desktop environments at logon time. Provided xfce works at an acceptable pace on your machine, you may make xfce the default desktop environment in the MDM greeter screen.

Kind regards,
Karl

Thank you karlchen for correcting my misunderstanding about the dual desktop ytene was suggesting. I guess I was thinking about a Virtual Machine (VM) configuration.

I am in the process of trying seeley's suggestion for a "full" dual boot but that sequence seems to have stalled with a busy icon spinning in the desktop's system tray. I will let it run for a while longer. Can I still install mint xfce as a dual desktop on top of Mate even with xfce installed in a "full" dual boot? [Update 25 July 2014 YES]

Thank you again Karl

[boblynn]

Anyway, it appears that LM 17 xfce is already installed (in 2 different partitions) already so would it be easier to try and link/point to one of them at boot in the grub menu

No!

or just delete

No,

or reformat, or clean install into those partitions using one for xfce and one for home? [Sorry but I guess I still don't understand your recommendation ]

Yes!

This is what I am confused about:
Normally (dual boot!) you don't choose as boot loader target the MBR of the (first) hard disk, displayed in the last line as /dev/sda, but your root partition of XFCE , e.g. /dev/sda6; your first Grub (MATE) will find your XFCE edition. Then, after reboot, Grub Menu of MATE edition shows MATE at first place.

Suggestion:
Boot to your live XFCE medium, run GParted, reformat your partitions sda6 and sda7 as ext4.
Start the installer, choosing "something else",
click on sda6, change > use as ext4, mount as "/", format (again) as ext4 ,
click on sda7, change > use as ext4, mount as "/home",
Change boot loader target

Grubsda6.png

and install!

After installation finished, reboot to MATE, run in Terminal

Code: Select all

sudo update-grub

reboot and normally you should see the MATE Grub Menu with Mint Mate and Mint Xfce!

Thank you so much for your patience seeley! Your step by step "instructions for linux dummies" like me were clear and precise and I understood and could follow them. Unfortunately, it seems to have stalled at the same place as my last attempt when I tried to use the "alongside" installation method. After what looks like a completed install I am returned to the live session desktop and a spinning busy icon over the bottom task bar. After waiting an hour, I rebooted the computer and opened mate and ran sudo update-grub. It found "Linux Mint 17 (qiana)" on sda6 but didn't appear in the grub menu after another reboot.

Maybe my live dvd has a problem with something in the "install to hd" code because the live session works ok. (I am using the Mint 17 xfce RC) iso that I burned to dvd. [Update 25 July 2014 - The problem was the RC, The final release installed properly and appears in the grub menu at boot. ]

[boblynn]

Hello, boblynn.

Thank you ytene for your suggestion. I hadn't considered a dual desktop approach. Unfortunately, my problem is that the pc is running unusually slow running LM 17 Mate so I doubt it would be able to support an additional desktop. I will have to try that on a more powerful pc some time

There is a misunderstanding on your side...

You were correct Karl, I tried the dual desktop method installing Mint 17 xfce on top of Mate via the Package Manager as you detailed. It installed successfully and I could choose which session/desktop to run as you indicated!

Unfortunately, the xfce desktop was as slow as mate on this hardware! There must be some conflict with my hardware and LM 17/Ubuntu 14.04.

I can try LM 13 Mate/xfce and see if that works at a reasonable speed since that has another two years of support.

Thank you again ytene, seeley and Karl for your help!