Progress! But problems remain.

Questions about Grub, UEFI,the liveCD and the installer
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Progress! But problems remain.

Postby T J Tulley on Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:10 pm

About a fortnight ago I received helpful suggestions from Fred and timw06 and I have now just had time to follow them - I have downloaded the article 'Boot with Grub' from http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/4622, and produced a grub floppy, and even more usefully, have downloaded the iso file to produce a Supergrub CD - together with documents for both. (Googled for URLs). I've not yet had time to investigate Puppy Linux but I have produced a CD to install it from.

Now I can easily boot into different LinuxMint versions and compare what they will do.

Difficulties which I have reported before remain: why?

In Celena, I get almost completely consistent booting with partitions correctly mounted, except (hd2,0) is not initially mounted, and after that I can't access it. I try to change it and it reports "read-only file system". [See terminal log below]. Celena is installed in (hd0,4).

In Daryna, I nearly always get one partition (not always the same one) mounted to 3 different /media, leaving 2 inaccessible. This I routinely correct from the terminal. But (hd2,0) is initially mounted, so I can access it and happily write backup folders to it - and access the ones previously placed there. Daryna is installed in (hd2,7).

Why is the behaviour of the same partition (hd2,1) so different in the 2 systems? It is formatted ntfs, and the backups come from my old Windows system where I keep all my current work (including Linux files) as well as archives, except e-mails. I don't use my /home/theo/documents folder.

Here are the terminal logs in both systems for gurus to elucidate (if you can kindly spare time!)

17/2/08: terminal in Daryna, booted via Supergrub. Note that sdc1 is accessible to user. (This is after initial ~$ df -h revealed 2 incorrect mounts of /dev/sda1)

theo@TJT5Daryna:~$ sudo umount /media/sdb2
[sudo] password for theo:
theo@TJT5Daryna:~$ sudo umount /media/sdb3
theo@TJT5Daryna:~$ sudo mount /dev/sdb3 /media/sdb3
theo@TJT5Daryna:~$ sudo mount /dev/sdb2 /media/sdb2
theo@TJT5Daryna:~$ cd /media
theo@TJT5Daryna:/media$ ls -l
total 78
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 2008-02-02 11:53 cdrom -> cdrom0
drwxr-xr-x 4 theo theo 2048 2007-10-28 22:39 cdrom0
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2008-02-02 11:53 cdrom1
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 2008-02-02 11:53 floppy -> floppy0
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2008-02-02 11:53 floppy0
drwxrwx--- 1 root plugdev 12288 2008-02-17 14:46 sda1
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2008-02-02 11:53 sda5
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2008-02-02 11:53 sda6
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2008-02-02 11:53 sda7
drwxrwxrwx 21 theo theo 4096 2007-10-01 13:09 sdb1
drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12288 2008-02-16 21:13 sdb2
drwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12288 2008-01-28 11:22 sdb3
drwxrwx--- 1 root plugdev 4096 2008-02-04 11:56 sdc1
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2007-10-22 21:23 sdc5
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2007-10-23 00:41 sdc6
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2008-01-24 20:36 sdc7
theo@TJT5Daryna:/media$

Later: terminal in Celena, booted via Supergrub. Note that sdc1 had to be mounted, and is not accessible to user. It refuses to respond to chown or chmod - see below:

theo@TJT4Celena:~$ sudo mount /dev/sdc1 /media/sdc1
Password:
theo@TJT4Celena:/media$ sudo chown theo /media/sdc1
chown: changing ownership of `/media/sdc1': Read-only file system
theo@TJT4Celena:/media$ sudo chmod 770 /media/sdc1
chmod: changing permissions of `/media/sdc1': Read-only file system
theo@TJT4Celena:/media$ ls -l
total 78
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 2008-02-10 16:01 cdrom -> cdrom0
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2008-02-10 16:01 cdrom0
drwxr-xr-x 4 theo theo 2048 2007-10-28 22:39 cdrom1
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 2008-02-10 16:01 floppy -> floppy0
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2008-02-10 16:01 floppy0
drwxrwxrwx 1 root theo 12288 2008-02-17 16:35 sda1
drwxrwxrwx 21 theo theo 4096 2007-10-01 13:09 sdb1
drwxrwxrwx 1 root theo 12288 2008-02-16 21:13 sdb2
drwxrwxrwx 1 root theo 12288 2008-01-28 11:22 sdb3
dr-x------ 1 root root 4096 2008-02-17 16:39 sdc1
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 2008-02-02 12:04 sdc10
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2008-02-12 00:19 sdc2
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2007-10-22 21:23 sdc5
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2007-10-23 00:41 sdc6
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 2008-01-24 20:36 sdc7
drwxr-xr-x 20 root root 4096 2008-02-02 12:18 sdc8
theo@TJT4Celena:/media$

As always, I shall be most grateful for help and advice.
Yours hopefully -

Theo Tulley.
Using a PC with 2GB RAM, 3 hdds and a 1.7 GHz Celeron cpu.
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Re: Progress! But problems remain.

Postby muskratmx on Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:59 pm

Frist off why are you booting with super grub? You should be able to repair the grub on your system to boot from the MBR, with that super grub disk.

But That is beside the point.

There is no doudt that it's mounting wrong. Since it's not a native file system, (NTFS) there's a good chance it's mounting read only. Unless you have ntfs-g3 (or some such) it's not really a good idea to write to a ntfs partition. Unless your using windows still on that box, you should consider reformatting to a native file system.

another item I see is that your mounting /dev/hda1 (etc). That's not incorrect except the latest versions of Debian/Ubuntu/Mint use UUID. Did you change your fstab? I don't know all the ends and outs of UUID yet because I've just begun using it in the last couple of months. But I do know if you gut it from the system. It must be gutted from several places not just the fstab. Also your preformance will suffer.

I gutted it from this laptop. Broke the system and had to finish gutting it with a live CD. Since then I've installed two other systems and one I started to gut it, but replaced it when I broke it. The other I've left alone. And Am Thinking Of Replacing It On This Laptop.

Post your fstab here, so we can see how your drives are mounting.
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Re: Progress! But problems remain.

Postby T J Tulley on Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:52 pm

Many thanks Muskrat/Steve;

I'm booting with Supergrub because at present I am rapidly comparing the 2 Linuxmint systems - when I've got one working satisfactorily I shall settle for that and boot it directly.

I'm not yet familiar enough with Supergrub and Grub to be able to edit grub. (See another post I've just sent, about UUIDs - same forum).

~$ df -h responds with sda1 etc but fstab uses UUIDs - see my other post.

The real puzzle is, why does (hd2,0) behave perfectly in Daryna but not in Celena? (BTW, hd2 is a SATA drive - 500 GB).

It's just very convenient for me to continue to use my very complex Windows file structure - it's got over 10 years of correspondence in it - personal and various organisations - I retired long ago.

At present I have 3 partitions containing non-booting images of my last working Windows XP Pro. I'll try using (hd2,5) for backups - that's ext3 and currently empty.

I still have a working Windows XP Pro on my laptop, and can use that when absolutely necessary, transferring with a USB flash drive - should be able to network it but have not found time to tackle that yet. It was networked when both were Windows, but always very slow to "find" each other. Laptop is Wi-fi to router; PC is cabled.

Once again, thanks.
Yours hopefully -

Theo Tulley.
Using a PC with 2GB RAM, 3 hdds and a 1.7 GHz Celeron cpu.
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Re: Progress! But problems remain.

Postby muskratmx on Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:21 am

OK I have no sata equipment yet. But all the new linux distros are going to sd instead of hd because of the advent of sata and all these usb devices are more numorous than before. That's also why we must conform to the UUID.

As for comparing two versions of LinuxMint that's your choice. But I really don't see much good in it, except to say that at one time knoppix came out with a new version which didn't work for me so I returned to the older version. Really they were the same except for kernel and drivers. And I think you'll find Linux Mint the same except the newer version will probably have more functions and more software. (Just my Oppion)

Post your fstab here so we can see what you have. Also here's a page that might help on UUIDs Grub needs those too from my understanding of sata. I could be mistaken on that. Also post your menu.lst here.

why does (hd2,0) behave perfectly in Daryna but not in Celena?

If I'm not mistaken Celena is the older version and didn't use UUIDs, Right? I only used Cassandra for a week or two and went to Daryna. I haven't used Celena.

But (hd2,0) is a grub term. Meaning it's the third drive in line, partition one. Is that what your speaking about? Linux doesn't use the same numbering method as grub.

I'm not yet familiar enough with Supergrub and Grub to be able to edit grub.

Grub is rather quite easy, first off editing your installation of grub is different than installing grub. Grub is actually a OS unto it's self. That's one reason they number drives different and get away with it. Much like windoz does. There is only one file to edit. (Make a copy of it first just in case) The file is found at /boot/grub/menu.lst. When your bios passes it's self off to the bootloader Grub, Grub then loads and reads that file. Following your options in it. Wait time, splash screen, and of course the list of distros/OSs installed ready to boot. There is a portion that will look simalier to this....
Code: Select all
title      Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.22-14-generic
root      (hd0,4)
kernel      /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22-14-generic root=/dev/sda5 ro quiet splash
initrd      /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-14-generic
boot

# Windows installation on /dev/sda1
title      Microsoft Windows XP Professional
root      (hd0,0)
savedefault
makeactive
chainloader   +1

# linux installation on /dev/sda6.
title      Vector Linux
root      (hd0,5)
kernel      /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/hda6 ro hdc=ide-scsi vga = 791 append = "splash=silent hdc=ide-scsi
initrd      /boot/initrd
savedefault
boot

Those are the lines you'll need to edit/create for each of your instaltions. As you can see I gutted the UUIDs from this system. I wouldn't advice doing that now. I did that because at the time I didn't understand UUID and just wanted to do things the old way. There is a good manual for grub which will help a lot. located at http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html It's a good read. Like I said Grub is an OS unto it's self. If you'd like to feel it just type grub at the CL, then your in grub which has all it's own commands, not linux commands. To exit type quit and hit enter you'll be back in linux.
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Re: Progress! But problems remain.

Postby T J Tulley on Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:48 am

Thanks again muskrat/Steve for your 2 replies. The 2 menu.lst's are below; fstabs are at the bottom of this - I copied the fstabs into Gedit files before I started thinking about editing them. At the moment they're unchanged.

BTW, Win XP Pro images are in (hd0,0)=sda1, (hd1,1)=sdb2 and (hd1,2)=sdb3; Celena is in (hd1,4)=sda5, with swap and /home in sda6 & 7; Cassandra is in (hdb0)=sdb1 (with its swap in sdb5) and Daryna is in (hd2,7)=sdc8, with swap & /home in sdc9 & 10.

You say that menu.lst is the only data which controls grub's behaviour during booting - nothing in all the others in /boot/grub ? Where does the instruction about which systems to offer on screen from menu.lst come from?

I started with Bianca where grub for selection displayed all the available systems, including 3 Win XP Pro (all actually unbootable) -
in Cassandra, Celena and Daryna I only see the main Mint system currently on offer with recovery and memory options, one Win XPPro, and one earlier Linux (with no recovery etc.), although they're all listed in menu.lst. In Daryna there are 3 Mint version listed, but only 2 displayed. (See my NOTES ADDED in the menu.lst texts)

I downloaded the grub and Supergrub manuals and have links to them on my desktop. That doesn't mean I've yet assimilated them! No time for more this morning - will get back this evening,after reading your refs. about UUIDs, and trying the command suggested by Chi.
Again - with many thanks.

*************************************************************************************************************

Menu.lst from Celena's /boot/grub:
# menu.lst - See: grub(8), info grub, update-grub(8)
# grub-install(8), grub-floppy(8),
# grub-md5-crypt, /usr/share/doc/grub
# and /usr/share/doc/grub-doc/.

## default num
# Set the default entry to the entry number NUM. Numbering starts from 0, and
# the entry number 0 is the default if the command is not used.
default 0

gfxmenu=/etc/grub/message.mint

## timeout sec
# Set a timeout, in SEC seconds, before automatically booting the default entry
# (normally the first entry defined).
timeout 10

# Pretty colours
color cyan/blue white/blue

## password ['--md5'] passwd
# If used in the first section of a menu file, disable all interactive editing
# control (menu entry editor and command-line) and entries protected by the
# command 'lock'
# e.g. password topsecret
# password --md5 $1$gLhU0/$aW78kHK1QfV3P2b2znUoe/
# password topsecret

#
# examples
#
# title Windows 95/98/NT/2000
# root (hd0,0)
# makeactive
# chainloader +1
#
# title Linux
# root (hd0,1)
# kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/hda2 ro
#

#
# Put static boot stanzas before and/or after AUTOMAGIC KERNEL LIST

### BEGIN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST
## lines between the AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST markers will be modified
## by the debian update-grub script except for the default options below

## DO NOT UNCOMMENT THEM, Just edit them to your needs

## ## Start Default Options ##
## default kernel options
## default kernel options for automagic boot options
## If you want special options for specific kernels use kopt_x_y_z
## where x.y.z is kernel version. Minor versions can be omitted.
## e.g. kopt=root=/dev/hda1 ro
## kopt_2_6_8=root=/dev/hdc1 ro
## kopt_2_6_8_2_686=root=/dev/hdc2 ro
# kopt=root=/dev/sda5 ro

## default grub root device
## e.g. groot=(hd0,0)
# groot=(hd0,4)

## should update-grub create alternative automagic boot options
## e.g. alternative=true
## alternative=false
# alternative=true

## should update-grub lock alternative automagic boot options
## e.g. lockalternative=true
## lockalternative=false
# lockalternative=false

## additional options to use with the default boot option, but not with the
## alternatives
## e.g. defoptions=vga=791 resume=/dev/hda5
# defoptions=quiet splash

## altoption boot targets option
## multiple altoptions lines are allowed
## e.g. altoptions=(extra menu suffix) extra boot options
## altoptions=(recovery mode) single
# altoptions=(recovery mode) single

## controls how many kernels should be put into the menu.lst
## only counts the first occurence of a kernel, not the
## alternative kernel options
## e.g. howmany=all
## howmany=7
# howmany=all

## should update-grub create memtest86 boot option
## e.g. memtest86=true
## memtest86=false
# memtest86=true

## ## End Default Options ##

title Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.20-15-generic
root (hd0,4)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-generic root=/dev/sda5 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-15-generic
boot

title Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.20-15-generic (recovery mode)
root (hd0,4)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-generic root=/dev/sda5 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-15-generic
boot

title Linux Mint, kernel memtest86+
root (hd0,4)
kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin
boot

### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST

# This is a divider, added to separate the menu items below from the Debian
# ones.
title Other operating systems:
root


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/sda1
title Microsoft Windows XP Professional
root (hd0,0)
savedefault
makeactive
chainloader +1


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdb1.
title Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.20-16-generic (on /dev/sdb1)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-16-generic root=UUID=77f4c4f4-5fc1-4145-b303-7e2b1c4986c6 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-16-generic
savedefault
boot
************************NOTE ADDED: Entries below this don't display for selection**********

# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdb1.
title Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.20-16-generic (recovery mode) (on /dev/sdb1)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-16-generic root=UUID=77f4c4f4-5fc1-4145-b303-7e2b1c4986c6 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-16-generic
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdb1.
title Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.20-15-generic (on /dev/sdb1)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-generic root=UUID=77f4c4f4-5fc1-4145-b303-7e2b1c4986c6 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-15-generic
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdb1.
title Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.20-15-generic (recovery mode) (on /dev/sdb1)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-generic root=UUID=77f4c4f4-5fc1-4145-b303-7e2b1c4986c6 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-15-generic
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdb1.
title Linux Mint, memtest86+ (on /dev/sdb1)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdb1.
title Linux Mint, memtest86+ (on /dev/sdb2) (on /dev/sdb1)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdb1.
title Ubuntu 7.04 (7.04) (on /dev/sdd6) (on /dev/sdb1)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-generic root=/dev/sdd6
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-15-generic
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdb1.
title Ubuntu 7.04 (7.04) (on /dev/sdd8) (on /dev/sdb1)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-generic root=/dev/sdd8
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-15-generic
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/sdb2
title Microsoft Windows XP Professional
root (hd1,1)
savedefault
makeactive
map (hd0) (hd1)
map (hd1) (hd0)
chainloader +1


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/sdb3
title Microsoft Windows XP Professional
root (hd1,2)
savedefault
makeactive
map (hd0) (hd1)
map (hd1) (hd0)
chainloader +1


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdc8.
title Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.22-14-generic (on /dev/sdc8)
root (hd2,7)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22-14-generic root=/dev/sdc8 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-14-generic
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdc8.
title Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.22-14-generic (recovery mode) (on /dev/sdc8)
root (hd2,7)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22-14-generic root=/dev/sdc8 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-14-generic
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdc8.
title Linux Mint, kernel memtest86+ (on /dev/sdc8)
root (hd2,7)
kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdc8.
title Linux Mint, kernel memtest86+ (on /dev/sda5) (on /dev/sdc8)
root (hd2,7)
kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdc8.
title Linux Mint, memtest86+ (on /dev/sdb1) (on /dev/sdc8)
root (hd2,7)
kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin
savedefault
boot
**************************************************************************************************
Menu.lst from Daryna's boot/grub:
# menu.lst - See: grub(8), info grub, update-grub(8)
# grub-install(8), grub-floppy(8),
# grub-md5-crypt, /usr/share/doc/grub
# and /usr/share/doc/grub-doc/.

## default num
# Set the default entry to the entry number NUM. Numbering starts from 0, and
# the entry number 0 is the default if the command is not used.
default 0

gfxmenu=/etc/grub/message.mint

## timeout sec
# Set a timeout, in SEC seconds, before automatically booting the default entry
# (normally the first entry defined).
timeout 10

# Pretty colours
color cyan/blue white/blue

## password ['--md5'] passwd
# If used in the first section of a menu file, disable all interactive editing
# control (menu entry editor and command-line) and entries protected by the
# command 'lock'
# e.g. password topsecret
# password --md5 $1$gLhU0/$aW78kHK1QfV3P2b2znUoe/
# password topsecret

#
# examples
#
# title Windows 95/98/NT/2000
# root (hd0,0)
# makeactive
# chainloader +1
#
# title Linux
# root (hd0,1)
# kernel /vmlinuz root=/dev/hda2 ro
#

#
# Put static boot stanzas before and/or after AUTOMAGIC KERNEL LIST

### BEGIN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST
## lines between the AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST markers will be modified
## by the debian update-grub script except for the default options below

## DO NOT UNCOMMENT THEM, Just edit them to your needs

## ## Start Default Options ##
## default kernel options
## default kernel options for automagic boot options
## If you want special options for specific kernels use kopt_x_y_z
## where x.y.z is kernel version. Minor versions can be omitted.
## e.g. kopt=root=/dev/hda1 ro
## kopt_2_6_8=root=/dev/hdc1 ro
## kopt_2_6_8_2_686=root=/dev/hdc2 ro
# kopt=root=/dev/sdd8 ro

## default grub root device
## e.g. groot=(hd0,0)
# groot=(hd2,7)

## should update-grub create alternative automagic boot options
## e.g. alternative=true
## alternative=false
# alternative=true

## should update-grub lock alternative automagic boot options
## e.g. lockalternative=true
## lockalternative=false
# lockalternative=false

## additional options to use with the default boot option, but not with the
## alternatives
## e.g. defoptions=vga=791 resume=/dev/hda5
# defoptions=quiet splash

## altoption boot targets option
## multiple altoptions lines are allowed
## e.g. altoptions=(extra menu suffix) extra boot options
## altoptions=(recovery mode) single
# altoptions=(recovery mode) single

## controls how many kernels should be put into the menu.lst
## only counts the first occurence of a kernel, not the
## alternative kernel options
## e.g. howmany=all
## howmany=7
# howmany=all

## should update-grub create memtest86 boot option
## e.g. memtest86=true
## memtest86=false
# memtest86=true

## ## End Default Options ##

title Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.22-14-generic
root (hd2,7)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22-14-generic root=/dev/sdd8 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-14-generic
boot

title Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.22-14-generic (recovery mode)
root (hd2,7)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.22-14-generic root=/dev/sdd8 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.22-14-generic
boot

title Linux Mint, kernel memtest86+
root (hd2,7)
kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin
boot

### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST

# This is a divider, added to separate the menu items below from the Debian
# ones.
title Other operating systems:
root


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/sdb1
title Microsoft Windows XP Professional
root (hd0,0)
savedefault
makeactive
chainloader +1


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdb5.
title Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.20-15-generic (on /dev/sdb5)
root (hd0,4)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-generic root=/dev/sda5 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-15-generic
savedefault
boot
*************************NOTE ADDED: Entries below this don't display for selection *******************

# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdb5.
title Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.20-15-generic (recovery mode) (on /dev/sdb5)
root (hd0,4)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-generic root=/dev/sda5 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-15-generic
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdb5.
title Linux Mint, kernel memtest86+ (on /dev/sdb5)
root (hd0,4)
kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdc1.
title Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.20-16-generic (on /dev/sdc1)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-16-generic root=UUID=77f4c4f4-5fc1-4145-b303-7e2b1c4986c6 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-16-generic
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdc1.
title Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.20-16-generic (recovery mode) (on /dev/sdc1)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-16-generic root=UUID=77f4c4f4-5fc1-4145-b303-7e2b1c4986c6 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-16-generic
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdc1.
title Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.20-15-generic (on /dev/sdc1)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-generic root=UUID=77f4c4f4-5fc1-4145-b303-7e2b1c4986c6 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-15-generic
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdc1.
title Linux Mint, kernel 2.6.20-15-generic (recovery mode) (on /dev/sdc1)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.20-15-generic root=UUID=77f4c4f4-5fc1-4145-b303-7e2b1c4986c6 ro single
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.20-15-generic
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/sdc1.
title Linux Mint, memtest86+ (on /dev/sdc1)
root (hd1,0)
kernel /boot/memtest86+.bin
savedefault
boot


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/sdc2
title Microsoft Windows XP Professional
root (hd1,1)
savedefault
makeactive
map (hd0) (hd1)
map (hd1) (hd0)
chainloader +1


# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
# on /dev/sdc3
title Microsoft Windows XP Professional
root (hd1,2)
savedefault
makeactive
map (hd0) (hd1)
map (hd1) (hd0)
chainloader +1

*********************************************************************************************************************
From Celena:
# /etc/fstab: static file system information.
#
# <file system> <mount point> <type> <options> <dump> <pass>
proc /proc proc defaults 0 0
# /dev/sda5
UUID=5164e2fe-60bb-4833-8c7c-ce0ef5861f3a / ext3 defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1
# /dev/sda6
UUID=904c5e2f-1147-4e4d-9789-91399a062e7e /home ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sda1
# /dev/sdb1
UUID=77f4c4f4-5fc1-4145-b303-7e2b1c4986c6 /media/sdb1 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdb2
# /dev/sdb3
# /dev/sdc1
# /dev/sdc10
UUID=97fb1410-90da-4c26-bae6-7fa73ca2c775 /media/sdc10 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdc5
UUID=4a359ac1-8893-473a-a36c-f173bba87097 /media/sdc5 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdc6
UUID=7c2010e9-2407-42d5-8cab-6fced617acab /media/sdc6 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdc7
UUID=16acfbd6-2d68-4339-a457-0b83314d94ef /media/sdc7 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdc8
UUID=8a84d0a9-c89c-4765-9d48-5f8d164a7e4c /media/sdc8 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdb5
UUID=d0922872-1e6b-4193-9415-2274f8e4a247 none swap sw 0 0
# /dev/sdc9
UUID=879da11d-4d05-4c1c-8a60-dbc03454f2ac none swap sw 0 0
/dev/scd0 /media/cdrom0 udf,iso9660 user,noauto 0 0
/dev/scd1 /media/cdrom1 udf,iso9660 user,noauto 0 0
/dev/fd0 /media/floppy0 auto rw,user,noauto 0 0

***********************************************************************************************************************

From Daryna:
# /etc/fstab: static file system information.
#
# <file system> <mount point> <type> <options> <dump> <pass>
proc /proc proc defaults 0 0
# /dev/sdc8
UUID=8a84d0a9-c89c-4765-9d48-5f8d164a7e4c / ext3 defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1
# /dev/sdc10
UUID=97fb1410-90da-4c26-bae6-7fa73ca2c775 /home ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sda1
UUID=06E4035FE403507B /media/sda1 ntfs defaults,umask=007,gid=46 0 1
# /dev/sda5
UUID=fd440b73-47a9-40b4-a381-392eba4b0f47 /media/sda5 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sda6
UUID=93448e5e-0816-4132-bf73-9173680d2d30 /media/sda6 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sda7
UUID=2eabed6e-7176-4e50-8c82-47432f62e0d9 /media/sda7 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdb1
UUID=77f4c4f4-5fc1-4145-b303-7e2b1c4986c6 /media/sdb1 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdb2
UUID=06E4035FE403507B /media/sdb2 ntfs defaults,umask=007,gid=46 0 1
# /dev/sdb3
UUID=06E4035FE403507B /media/sdb3 ntfs defaults,umask=007,gid=46 0 1
# /dev/sdc1
UUID=2044A85E4B03DE64 /media/sdc1 ntfs defaults,umask=007,gid=46 0 1
# /dev/sdc5
UUID=4a359ac1-8893-473a-a36c-f173bba87097 /media/sdc5 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdc6
UUID=7c2010e9-2407-42d5-8cab-6fced617acab /media/sdc6 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdc7
UUID=16acfbd6-2d68-4339-a457-0b83314d94ef /media/sdc7 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sda8
UUID=dde25846-c904-479d-8fc4-2a5b12afe49b none swap sw 0 0
# /dev/sdb5
UUID=d0922872-1e6b-4193-9415-2274f8e4a247 none swap sw 0 0
# /dev/sdc9
UUID=879da11d-4d05-4c1c-8a60-dbc03454f2ac none swap sw 0 0
/dev/scd1 /media/cdrom0 udf,iso9660 user,noauto,exec 0 0
/dev/scd0 /media/cdrom1 udf,iso9660 user,noauto,exec 0 0
/dev/fd0 /media/floppy0 auto rw,user,noauto,exec 0 0
Yours hopefully -

Theo Tulley.
Using a PC with 2GB RAM, 3 hdds and a 1.7 GHz Celeron cpu.
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Re: Progress! But problems remain.

Postby muskratmx on Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:50 pm

You say that menu.lst is the only data which controls grub's behaviour during booting - nothing in all the others in /boot/grub ? Where does the instruction about which systems to offer on screen from menu.lst come from?


That's not what I meant; Data meaning human editable data!

Grub reads some of those other files in /boot/grub/ but they are briany files, we can't edit them. The menu.lst tells grub how to act, what spalsh screen to use, what colors to use, how log to wait before booting the default OS of choice, and the menu of OS systems on your box.

The instructions of which systems to offer to boot, are on the bottom of your menu.lst, starting with the line "## ## End Default Options ##" from there on down is what's shown in the panel when grub boots. each line that says "title" followed by a line "root" will show one line on screen at boot time.

for example;
title Other operating systems:
root

This will show "Other operating systems" on screen, but is nonbootable.

each of the other lines will boot if the address is correct, and the OS files are there, and the system is functioning.

One of the biggest mistakes with grub is the address. There is two addresses in the stanza, the "root" line uses a grub address. The kernel line uses the proper OS address, such as linux would be root=/dev/hda1 (or now root=UUID....) There is another gotch! some bois settings won't allow booting beyond a certain portion of the hard disk. For example I have a box that won't boot any install past about 80gb. But I'm using a 160gb drive chopped into 20gb slices. So to get around that I create a /boot partion on the front of the drive "hda1" then load all my kernels into it. Which allows me to boot the last few slices of my large drive.

At any rate your partion mounting read only isn't affected by grub, it's affected by fstab.

The real puzzle is, why does (hd2,0) behave perfectly in Daryna but not in Celena? (BTW, hd2 is a SATA drive - 500 GB).


If you look closely your Daryna has a UUID for each /dev/sd? entry, but your Celena dosen't! Most modern linux systems will mount partions using hotplug or some other method if the partion isn't listed in fstab. Thus causing them to mount wierd ways.

From Celena:
# /dev/sda5
UUID=5164e2fe-60bb-4833-8c7c-ce0ef5861f3a / ext3 defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1
# /dev/sda6
UUID=904c5e2f-1147-4e4d-9789-91399a062e7e /home ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sda1
(NO UUID OR MOUNTING INFO)
# /dev/sdb1
UUID=77f4c4f4-5fc1-4145-b303-7e2b1c4986c6 /media/sdb1 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdb2
(NO UUID OR MOUNTING INFO)
# /dev/sdb3
(NO UUID OR MOUNTING INFO)
# /dev/sdc1
(NO UUID OR MOUNTING INFO)
# /dev/sdc10
UUID=97fb1410-90da-4c26-bae6-7fa73ca2c775 /media/sdc10 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdc5
UUID=4a359ac1-8893-473a-a36c-f173bba87097 /media/sdc5 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdc6
UUID=7c2010e9-2407-42d5-8cab-6fced617acab /media/sdc6 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdc7
UUID=16acfbd6-2d68-4339-a457-0b83314d94ef /media/sdc7 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdc8
UUID=8a84d0a9-c89c-4765-9d48-5f8d164a7e4c /media/sdc8 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdb5
UUID=d0922872-1e6b-4193-9415-2274f8e4a247 none swap sw 0 0
# /dev/sdc9
UUID=879da11d-4d05-4c1c-8a60-dbc03454f2ac none swap sw 0 0


From Daryna:

# /dev/sdc8
UUID=8a84d0a9-c89c-4765-9d48-5f8d164a7e4c / ext3 defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1
# /dev/sdc10
UUID=97fb1410-90da-4c26-bae6-7fa73ca2c775 /home ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sda1
UUID=06E4035FE403507B /media/sda1 ntfs defaults,umask=007,gid=46 0 1
# /dev/sda5
UUID=fd440b73-47a9-40b4-a381-392eba4b0f47 /media/sda5 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sda6
UUID=93448e5e-0816-4132-bf73-9173680d2d30 /media/sda6 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sda7
UUID=2eabed6e-7176-4e50-8c82-47432f62e0d9 /media/sda7 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdb1
UUID=77f4c4f4-5fc1-4145-b303-7e2b1c4986c6 /media/sdb1 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdb2
UUID=06E4035FE403507B /media/sdb2 ntfs defaults,umask=007,gid=46 0 1
# /dev/sdb3
UUID=06E4035FE403507B /media/sdb3 ntfs defaults,umask=007,gid=46 0 1
# /dev/sdc1
UUID=2044A85E4B03DE64 /media/sdc1 ntfs defaults,umask=007,gid=46 0 1
# /dev/sdc5
UUID=4a359ac1-8893-473a-a36c-f173bba87097 /media/sdc5 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdc6
UUID=7c2010e9-2407-42d5-8cab-6fced617acab /media/sdc6 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sdc7
UUID=16acfbd6-2d68-4339-a457-0b83314d94ef /media/sdc7 ext3 defaults 0 2
# /dev/sda8
UUID=dde25846-c904-479d-8fc4-2a5b12afe49b none swap sw 0 0
# /dev/sdb5
UUID=d0922872-1e6b-4193-9415-2274f8e4a247 none swap sw 0 0
# /dev/sdc9
UUID=879da11d-4d05-4c1c-8a60-dbc03454f2ac none swap sw 0 0


I hope that helps, I removed some of your fstab, leaving just the line we were discussing, but don't do that to the real fstab it won't work.
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Re: Progress! But problems remain.

Postby T J Tulley on Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:07 pm

Thanks again Muskrat/Steve.

I did a lot of browsing yesterday and found that one of the differences between Celena and Daryna is that the latter requires UUIDs, the former doesn't.

You may have seen my post from last night (in Newbies) reporting my discovery that the option offered in Celena's MintDisk settled the problem of inaccessible ntfs-formatted partitions. Celena now meets all my working needs, apart from its occasional reluctance to complete the boot procedure.

Of course I immediately wanted to apply the same solution to Daryna but: no MintDisk there!

Now if you look again at the Daryna fstab which you quote in your reply - or in mine - you will see that sda1, sdb2 and sdb3 all have identical UUIDs! These are 3 ntfs-formatted partitions, and this (which I spotted yesterday) explains why they all emerge from booting mounted on the same /medium - not always the same one. I ALWAYS have to correct that using a series of commands, but that doesn't change other features of the setup which have already been set - the previously unmounted partitions don't appear on the desktop, and evidently fstab is not changed; however broken links on the desktop, when called into action, are mended.

It remains to discover the correct UUIDs and then edit fstab - then perhaps this fault will be cleared. An alternative could be to find a way to achieve the same effect as I obtained in Celena by using MintDisk.

I first mentioned UUIDs in a post a week ago, and Chi replied saying ~$ sudo vol_id -u device would give that information. I've printed out the manual for vol_id.

I'm in Celena at present, where no UUIDs appear in fstab for the ntfs partitions although they are now mounted properly and accessible.

I have just entered the command ~$ sudo vol_id -u with /dev/sda1, /dev/sdb2 and /dev/sdb3 successively as argument. They all return the same result - which is the same as I see in Daryna's fstab, quoted at the beginning of this post. /dev/sdc1 is also ntfs, but doesn't contain a filesystem: this returns a different UUID - also same as above. These ntfs UUIDs are only 16 characters; a "proper" UUID consists of 32 characters - see the Wiki entry.

sda1 is on an 80-GB disk while sdb2 & 3 are on a 200-GB. The UUID is supposed to be unique and to depend on the detail of the disk and its environment. All very puzzling.

Thanks again.
Yours hopefully -

Theo Tulley.
Using a PC with 2GB RAM, 3 hdds and a 1.7 GHz Celeron cpu.
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Re: Progress! But problems remain.

Postby muskratmx on Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:15 am

I see your making great head way, you probably understand UUID better than me now, because I haven't had to fix any problems with it yet. But I did suggest that Celana probably didn't use UUID because that's a new deal.

I would suggest, you steer away from using NTFS, unless you need the files bigger than 4gb store on those windows drives. Windoz has had a long history of changing computor standards (such as / to \ and hda1 to C:), the idea that they use a file format that causes me problems isn't to my liking, I've been install winXP on fat32 for some time now, and don't have any of my boxes using NTFS.

That's just my opion. with that and $1.50 you might could get a cup of coffee. :lol:

Sorry I couldn't help you more.
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