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Open Office

Postby freedom on Sun Apr 22, 2007 5:06 pm

I don't much care for KOffice, So I tried to use KPackage to install Open Office and it will not do it. It says there are broken packages. On a new install?

It would be nice if you made a secondary release that had OpenOffice, Gaim, More games, A Calculator etc installed from the get go instead of users having to go find and install them after the fact.

KOffice may be smaller but the fact of the matter is OpenOffice is used by more people both in Linux and in Windows and Mac. You should be using it in an effort to keep new users in a familiar environment.
Same thing for Gaim, Linux, Windows users are familiar with it but not Kopete.
All OSes come with a small bundle of games but not Mint? Just one? You need to add more from the start. Some tile games, a few card games etc.
All OSes come with a calculator as well, why not Mint? Why do we have to install it.
If the effort is being made to make a Linux OS that is user friendly to Windows users, then the OS needs to have some of the things that windows users are use to seeing.
If I sound a little miffed I am sorry but it totally escapes me that the Linux community works so hard at this and constantly gets it wrong distro after distro.
There are a small group of things that windows users are looking for. And that small group of things continues to evade every distro that comes along.
:shock: :roll: :( I just dont get it. The only other distro that was close to having it right has gone strait down the crapper, they cant get their heads out of the alfa trap run, I fear that untill the Linux community wakes up and asks the PC users of the world what it is they want rather than installing the things that the Linux geeks and builders want the Linux distros are doomed to be third rate OSes, and that is a HUGE pitty because Linux is so close to being ready for prime time. We just need one distro to put all the bits and pieces together in to one package, And it just does not look like it is going to happen.
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Postby Boo on Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:50 pm

I agree. :D
OO should be in mint KDE, you can use koffice if you prefer or remove OO (back to DVD size).

I think we should be presenting a unified front for mint gnome/kde editions (and later xfce). Which ever DM you choose you should get the same core applications like OO, firefox, K3B, f-spot...

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Now where was i going? Oh yes, crazy!
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Postby freedom on Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:08 pm

I was using the DVD version.
The beta sadly seems better than the general release.
The scrolling bar at the bottom as a bit of a pain but at least everything worked when I tried to install it.
I just dont understand why I have to install the things that should be there in the first place.
Things that Windows users are looking for are things that should be on the distro by default.

Once all the basics are there then you can fill in the rest of the space with the extras that the average user is not looking for.

One thing that the Linux community is never going to get right is software.
People no matter what the Linux community thinks, like to buy software on CD. All Linux distros need to have a common installer of some kind. So that software can be sold at stores on CD, so that people can buy it and bring it home and install it very easily.
The installer for all distros needs to be a good safe one that is in the Linux kernel. That way it goes to all distros unless someone removes it.
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Postby scorp123 on Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:28 am

freedom wrote: People no matter what the Linux community thinks, like to buy software on CD.
I don't. And I don't have to. Linux's package managers are far superior to this obsolete form of software distribution. It's just a waste of resources and pollutes the environment e.g. when one day you throw the CD away.

freedom wrote: All Linux distros need to have ...
Please do some reading before you post a sentence like that, OK? :D "All Linux distros" is not about pleasing you or me, it is about Freedom ... The creators of one Linux distro choose to make things like this, others choose to make things like that ... It is their freedom to do so. And nobody is putting a gun to your head and saying BS like "Use Linux or else .... " -- You are free to use Linux if you want to. But you don't have to. You're just as free to continue using Windows or move to Apple and MacOS X. Linux is about having choice. Therefore sentences such as "all Linux distros need to have ... " are plain rubbish and quite idiotic because it totally contradicts what Linux is about.

freedom wrote: So that software can be sold at stores on CD, so that people can buy it
Why do I need to buy a CD if I can download stuff for free????? Read above. The entire argument is quite .... ehm .... stupid :D Sorry to say so :wink:

freedom wrote: The installer for all distros needs to be a good safe one that is in the Linux kernel. That way it goes to all distros unless someone removes it.
Now that's quite idiotic, wouldn't you agree? Maybe you'd wish to read about OS design and especially read about what an OS kernel is supposed to do and what not? Once you read that you'd have to ask yourself: What in the world is an installer application for user space apps doing in the kernel ???? Aha. You see? That's why nobody, especially not Linus Torvalds, has integrated such nonsense into the kernel - it simply does not belong there :D

And to your other argument "unless someone removes it": Who would guarantee that somebody wouldn't fork off their development efforts and remove that nonsense right away and thus again create a distro that is different from the rest? :D Bingo. That's already the very situation we have today. So why put up such a vain effort and force an application into the kernel (where it doesn't belong !!!) when you already realise that someone (or everybody?) might remove it anyway again and thus render your suggestion useless again? :D :D :D

I hope you now realise the shortcomings of what you posted ... it would be better for you to do some reading and maybe try and find a Linux distro (or maybe a different OS altogether??) that suits you.

As for OpenOffice: Why didn't you simply install it with "Synaptic" or the "Add / Remove Software" menu?? Could be that KPackage had troubles with the auto-resolving and downloading of dependencies; Synaptic is known to work perfectly in this regard. You could try again maybe and tell us more precisely what dependency you can't get sorted out?


EDIT:

Modded myself a bit ... My posting was overly aggressive and rude. My apologies. :wink:
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Postby freedom on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:19 am

Modded myself a bit ... My posting was overly aggressive and rude. My apologies. :wink:

Accepted

Ah. I shake my head that you miss the point of my post. And since you did not see the importance of what I said in the first place there is no need to try to explain it further. You as a Linux guru are more than capable of using the tools that are in Linux as it is to do what you like. The largest part of WIndows users who may be trying to switch will never make heads or tails out of it so all that you posted in response to my post is for naught.
You see, what you know means nothing to the average Windows user. And the average Windows user is the target market for most Linux distros. Many Windows users don't have broad band. So your fine KPacage or Add/Remove does them no good because if the ISP were good enough to let them stay on line long enough to download something like OpenOffice.org it would take several days.

To Linux gurus (you) buying CDs is old and useless, to the rest of the world that uses Windows (Which lets see is still well over 95% when talking about desk top use not business) it is still the way things are done.

As for OpenOffice: Why didn't you simply install it with "Synaptic" {{This whold have been something to try if Linux Mint installed with it. My install does not have Synaptic}}or the "Add / Remove Software" menu??{{While I do have the Add/Remove menu it does not have OpenOffice in it and a search in the A/R menu shows ZERO results}} Could be that KPackage had troubles with the auto-resolving and downloading of dependencies; Synaptic is known to work perfectly in this regard. You could try again maybe and tell us more precisely what dependency you can't get sorted out? {{I would have been happy to give this info if the system would have told me what the issues are. Unfortunately Mint was not kind enough to give me that info so I in turn did not give it.}}

I am no guru. But I have been using Linux for about 5 years and in those 5 years I have tried more times than I can count to get other people to use it. And have only got 3 to do so on a part time bases, every one else does not want to touch it in large part for the reasons I posted before.

You see it is not just me that thinks this way but a good many windows user. Those that should be the Linux target market feel this way.
Mint is good, but it could be better is what I was saying. As a guru you are stuck more on the geeke complicated stuff and yes, for you that works just fine. But put this distro in front of 100 average windows users that want to switch and you will get no takers. 100 possible new Linux users flushed down the drain because some one could not see past their own liking to what the Linux market really needs.

I do not expect you to understand any of this as your last post shows you did not then and will not now. But truth of the matter is. If Linux is going to be accepted by the masses it WILL have to have a good easy way to install software when it is NOT on line. As well as the other stuff.

Two cents from me, and the passing on of opinions from those I have tried to get to use Linux.
Last edited by freedom on Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby scorp123 on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:57 am

freedom wrote: Many Windows users don't have broad band. So your fine KPacage or Add/Remove does them no good because if the ISP were good enough to let them stay on line long enough to download something like OpenOffice.org it would take several days.
Distros such as SUSE ship on DVD with all applications you'd ever need already on the DVD. Office suites? Check: Koffice, OpenOffice, Gnumeric, Abiword, tons of others. Just pick what you want during the installation. Or install them all if you want to and if your disk is big enough. Graphics programs? Check. GIMP, Inkscape, Krita, ImageMagick, and tons of others. Multimedia? Check. Amarok, k3b, RealPlayer, ... everything is there on the DVD. Programming? Check. Tons of compilers and programming languages are already there on the DVD.

It's just a matter of buying the right distro and you never even have to connect to the Internet and download anything, except the small update or patch here and there :wink:

freedom wrote: To Linux gurus (you) buying CDs is old and useless,
The way you formulated it: Yes. There are of course cases where I too need to buy a CD, e.g. in the case of commercial software which isn't free for download. But just because of that we don't need to have Linux changed upside down into another Windoze :wink:

freedom wrote: Those that should be the Linux target market feel this way.
You see, that's where you are wrong. Nobody is targetting the broad masses of Windows users :D Commercial vendors such as Red Hat, Novell/SUSE, Xandros and now Oracle are rather targetting the business users and their server rooms. The broad mass of Windows users just isn't ready yet it seems.

And the kernel developers don't really care about this. They develop this stuff because they like developing it and not because they want their system on 99% of all desktops. Take Torvalds for example: He simply doesn't care about this (and I fully agree with him): "I do not compete."

In other words: Use Linux if you want to use it. But nobody forces you to do it. :wink:

freedom wrote: Mint is good, but it could be better is what I was saying.
You should talk to clem then ... Mint is his baby and this is his one-man-show. You could open a new thread with your suggestions in the "Feedback & Suggestions" sub-forum here ...

freedom wrote: But put this distro in front of 100 average windows users
You see, that's the problem :D You expect everything to behave and work like Windows .... and that just isn't going to happen. :D

On the contrary:
Give a total computer noob (e.g. my wife !!) a Linux installation ... and guess what? She is totally and completely happy. And nope, for her it isn't complicated at all. :D

Let's suppose she wants the new version of Firefox? Point and click, tick the checkbox that offers the new version, and woooosh, the new version and all its dependencies get auto-installed. She doesn't need to worry about anything. Install location? Language? Nope - the system will take care of it.

Let's compare that to Windows: Search the right SETUP.EXE and then click through various dialogues ... Now that is scary for a noob? Install location? C:\Program Files\Mozilla\Firefox .... what in the world is that??? :shock: And why is this thing in German when I wanted to have it in English like the rest of my desktop??? :shock:

Believe me ... Once you let go of your bad Windows habits you will come to realise that it is you who enjoys unnecessarily complicated things ... not me :D


freedom wrote: it WILL have to have a good easy way to install software when it is NOT on line.
See above :D It already has. :D It's just that you can't let go of that "setup.exe" idea which is not needed here :D
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Postby freedom on Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:40 pm

Thank you clyde9 for giving the answer to the OpenOffice question.
Correction needed here. These instructions only installed the OO.o printer administration function on the distro. NOT OO.o the office suite.
Last edited by freedom on Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby scorp123 on Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:02 pm

You could have found the solution sooner if you had bothered to answer my question about what error you are experiencing :wink:

I nontheless enjoyed the philosophical discussion instead 8)
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Postby freedom on Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:52 pm

scorp123 wrote:You could have found the solution sooner if you had bothered to answer my question about what error you are experiencing :wink:

I nontheless enjoyed the philosophical discussion instead 8)
And I told you before it did not give an error just that there was a problem

And just so you know the instructions given in the other post only installed the OpenOffice Printer Administration function and NOT OpenOffice.org so I still am without OO.o

So since Mint will not tell me what the issue is and ONLY that there is an issue. How do you propose I go about this?

I went back and marked the lines where I told you that Mint did not give the info you requested in bold italic underlined text.
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Postby scorp123 on Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:09 pm

freedom wrote: And I told you before it did not give an error just that there was a problem
Well, what precisely did it say? Or what precisely do you do to receive whatever reaction you get from your system? My crystal ball is down for maintenance so I can't look into it and watch what you do ... you'll have to use your keyboard and try to explain it to me, using the most precise descriptions you're capable of, OK? :wink:

freedom wrote: And just so you know the instructions given in the other post only installed the OpenOffice Printer Administration function and NOT OpenOffice.org so I still am without OO.o
Maybe just some icons missing? Can you open a terminal (e.g. "Konsole" in KDE; "GNOME Terminal" in GNOME ...) please and do the following:

- type "oo" followed by hitting the TAB key two or three times ...When I do this here my system spits out this list of possible commands that all start with "oo":

    scorp123:~> oo (+ hitting the tab key a few times here)
    oobase oodraw ooimpress ootool
    oocalc ooffice oomath ooweb
    ooconfig oofromtemplate oooqs oowriter

So given my system gives me all those commands that start with "oo" I can be pretty sure that OpenOffice is installed on my system. What if we do that on your's? Can you please post the results?

freedom wrote: So since Mint will not tell me what the issue is and ONLY that there is an issue. How do you propose I go about this?
With patience :wink:
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Postby freedom on Sat Apr 28, 2007 3:27 am

Opened console and typed oo as requested this is what it gave me.

Do something unusual today. Pay a bill.
mike@mike-desktop:~$ oo
bash: oo: command not found
mike@mike-desktop:~$

I have installed everything OO.o I can find that pertains to OO.o for English.
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Postby scorp123 on Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:10 am

freedom wrote:Opened console and typed oo as requested this is what it gave me.

mike@mike-desktop:~$ oo
bash: oo: command not found
mike@mike-desktop:~$

You pressed ENTER .... you were not supposed to press ENTER ... just TAB a few times, not ENTER ... :roll:

oo + TAB TAB TAB (not ENTER!)
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Postby freedom on Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:58 am

scorp123 wrote:
freedom wrote:Opened console and typed oo as requested this is what it gave me.

mike@mike-desktop:~$ oo
bash: oo: command not found
mike@mike-desktop:~$

You pressed ENTER .... you were not supposed to press ENTER ... just TAB a few times, not ENTER ... :roll:

oo + TAB TAB TAB (not ENTER!)


Wrong I pressed tab. Ill do it one more time. But I pressed tab.
A tall, dark stranger will have more fun than you.
mike@mike-desktop:~$ oo

now it just beeps at me.
Go figure.
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Postby scorp123 on Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:04 pm

freedom wrote: Wrong I pressed tab.
Doesn't look like it because the system responded with "bash: oo: command not found" :twisted: ... This definitely means that you hit the Enter key and thus entered "oo" as command ... which the system of course doesn't know anything about :wink:
freedom wrote:mike@mike-desktop:~$ oo

now it just beeps at me.

Please open a terminal and give us the verbatim results (whatever output the system gives back!) of the following command sequence, OK?
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install openoffice.org
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Instructions

Postby Flatline on Tue May 08, 2007 1:42 pm

http://www.linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15875

Doesn't work for the KDE edition, but for the "normal" edition it works fine. I am surprised that an apt-get doesn't work (that's a BIG bug right there), but for some reason it doesn't.
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Re: Instructions

Postby scorp123 on Tue May 08, 2007 1:56 pm

Flatline wrote:http://www.linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15875

Doesn't work for the KDE edition, but for the "normal" edition it works fine. I am surprised that an apt-get doesn't work (that's a BIG bug right there), but for some reason it doesn't.
Did you test this? Please send a PM to clem then so he can fix this bug ...
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done

Postby Flatline on Tue May 08, 2007 2:16 pm

Reported it; thanks, by the way...I just joined and was going to have to look around to see how to report things like this.
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