linux DVD player with automatic cadence detection

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linux DVD player with automatic cadence detection

Postby snarko on Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:46 pm

Hello hello!

I'm trying to set up a Linux (Mint) box for my sister to inherit and I've hit a snag that I think would be a deal-stopper for her. I haven't been able to find a Linux DVD player that detects and responds accordingly to cadence or flags. This means you need to manually choose to deinterlace, or to ivtc, or none of the above. For example, an extra on the first Deadwood disc was telecined except for some bits that were actually 30fps interlaced. On a Windows machine with Purevideo, this plays back perfectly with no user interaction needed - it IVTCs the telecined bits to progressive 24fps video, and deinterlaces the truly interlaced bits and keeps them at their proper 30fps (shorthand rounded #s here of course). In Linux, by default players neither deinterlace nor ivtc, so of course you have combing all over the place. OR, I can manually choose to ivtc (requiring command line or command line entries in the advanced config options in a mplayer gui such as SMplayer) so *most* of the clip will play fine - but not the truly interlaced 30fps parts, which are now still interlaced and but also have stuttering movement besides, being reduced to 24fps with 1 out of 5 frames being chopped out. OR, I can manually select a deinterlacing method, which gives less than optimal picture quality for the telecined parts (the majority of the video) and then the interlaced parts will play back fine and smooth too. I know flags for streams aren't always set 100% and there are going to be badly mastered DVDs that aren't going to be played back very well by any player - but this sort of thing is pretty routine for TV shows and anime, and every Linux DVD player I know fails at it.

She's not going to know how or when to IVTC, and she's not going to want to have to *manually* choose to tell a player to deinterlace. She's just going to wonder why the picture looks crappy. And why shouldn't she, or anyone, really, when set-top boxes and players in the Windows world already routinely get it right all by themselves? So, does anyone out there know of a Linux DVD player that automatically handles cadence and inverse telecines when needed, or deinterlaces when needed, etc? I'm wondering about Lindvd, but it's not available by itself apparently. I'm hoping there's something out there, or a method I can set up. I think she could be a convert if this stumbling block could be removed.

Thanks very much for any info anyone has.
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Re: linux DVD player with automatic cadence detection

Postby Husse on Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:00 am

Welcome to Mint snarko
This user name gives me a bad taste of illicit drugs....
Actually I don't get much of what you write and I can't tell if you're right or not....
A because I'm not deep into DVD playing and
B because you've written it in a massive block - you need to edit your post in such a way that it is easy to read
My answer is VLC - it works the same way in Linux as in Windows
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Re: linux DVD player with automatic cadence detection

Postby snarko on Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:40 pm

The Cliff's Note version:

Is there any DVD player that performs cadence detection and/or obeys stream flags in determining playback method automatically?

Thanks for the VLC suggestion. It does seem to at least look at stream flags, and it handles menus too. I think that's the one to try for now.
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Re: linux DVD player with automatic cadence detection

Postby Husse on Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:43 am

I have a feeling your questions are "a bit deep" :shock:
If I google for stream flags or cadence detection I get strange hits - quite a bit about fax machines actually.
I have a feeling this is (to be) done in hardware and I have honestly not heard of it and I've been professionally into computers for quite a few years....
I've never heard or seen complaints about the basic problem either (that people have to interact during play to get it working right)
Honestly if a DVD was partly 24 fps and partly 30 fps interlaced I'd call that a crappy DVD
Movies are 24, PAL is 25 interlaced and NTSCis 30 fps interlaced
Mixing that seems to be a bad idea... but I may be way out....
So in essence - sorry I don't know :(
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Re: linux DVD player with automatic cadence detection

Postby snarko on Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:03 am

Mixed content actually happens quite a bit, at least in NTSC land. Anime often has mixed telecined (24fps progressive content broadcast at 30fps interlaced which can be inverse telecined to re-create the original 24fps progressive frames) and genuine 30fps interlaced parts. Extras on DVDs that were aired on television as promo pieces can have parts that are 30fps interlaced and parts that are really 24fps film telecined to 30fps for broadcast. TV shows from the last 20 years or so, especially sci-fi shows with CGI, are often mixed telecined content and 30fps bits (the CGI effects parts).

You can just deinterlace all of it willy-nilly, but quality deinterlacing is tough for older computer to do real-time, and then even top quality deinterlacing of a video that is actually telecined content loses the quality you'd get by properly inverse telecining it back to progressive film. That's why DVDs usually have stream flags to tell a flag-aware player what the content of the segment at hand is. But flags can be wrong, too, and there are other bizarre cadences besides just 24fps interlaced, 24/30 fps telecined and 30fps interlaced (especially encountered in badly mastered anime), so the best players do cadence detection to try to tell what the content really is regardless of what the basic stream flags indicate.

Anyway, that's what I was asking about. :) Thanks for suggesting VLC, it seems to be flag responsive to some degree.
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Re: linux DVD player with automatic cadence detection

Postby Husse on Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:42 am

Hmm I had no idea - but I live in "PAL land" there may be a difference especially considering how close 24 and 25 are
I'm not sure but I think movies are just transmitted as 25 which should make them 1/24 (or 1/25) shorter in time....
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