Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

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Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby mrminty on Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:13 am

The current linux mint release is gorgeous, and actually supports my laptop sound a little, but not enough that I'll be able to hear video sound while doing chores and hobbies. Does anyone keep a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Thanks.
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby igorzwx on Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:50 am

What is your sound card?

Type on Terminal:

lspci -v
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby mrminty on Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:56 pm

Guess I wasn't clear on the situation, sorry for that.

The reason I posted is because I don't have a sound card, so I'm hoping that linux mint people can advise me on cards which are known to work before I go and buy one. I'll probably need a usb type for my laptop, It has sound, but it's sort of anemic compared to Windows.
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby rich_roast on Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:26 pm

The best resource I know for usb compatibility under Linux is here, so it might be worthwhile checking out this list if a usb device is the way to go. Hope it helps.
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby igorzwx on Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:06 pm

QUOTE: "my laptop, It has sound, but it's sort of anemic compared to Windows."

I presume that your laptop has a very good soundcard onboard.
Let us try to fix it first.
You may have the same problems with any expensive USB soundcard.
Or you do not know how to spend your money? :D
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby mrminty on Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:05 pm

igorzwx wrote:QUOTE: "my laptop, It has sound, but it's sort of anemic compared to Windows."

I presume that your laptop has a very good soundcard onboard.
Let us try to fix it first.
You may have the same problems with any expensive USB soundcard.
Or you do not know how to spend your money? :D


I've tried lots of distros before on this Toshiba laptop (L305-S5933), and the sound quality ranged from nonexistent to poor (excepting Fedora, which I'm no longer willing to deal with for other reasons). I recall attempting to fix the problem with Ubuntu - that was a discouraging several days of patiently sifting through mountains of the penguin poop which geeks call "tutorials", and none applied, and when none of that works they send you to Alsa, which strangely doesn't list drivers for more than two Toshiba models, not mine. Then again. this isn't Ubuntu.

Anyway, tt was after this that I got the desperate idea that a sound card upgrade may be worth it, but fortunately that got stopped today by an unusually honest (or I suppose intimidated) Bestbuy salesboy. I spoke to three of them there this afternoon, and knew the other two had to be lying - the Creative USB cards aren't expected to change output for built-in laptop speakers at all!

What I need is not surround sound (my laptop doesn't have the extra speakers, and I don't wanna carry them), and I'm not into games either - I just want to improve the sound output for the two built-in speakers so that they will perform on par with Windows, when I want to watch videos wherever I'm doing chores and hobbies. I need better amplification - so, does Linux Mint have a driver solution for this?
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby igorzwx on Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:22 pm

The drivers are the problem, indeed.
Both soundcard and videocards are problematic with Linux today,
and they tend to become more problematic every year.
Ubuntu 6.10 worked perfectly on my IBM notebook,
but Ubuntu 9.04 is a disaster on the same notebook.

By the way, you have not answered my question:

What is your sound card?

Type on Terminal:

lspci -v
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby rich_roast on Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:20 pm

Just a quick thought, in a similar but opposite thread it was revealed that Pulse Audio allows for somehow setting volumes at over 100% :shock: I've just had a quick check and the same procedure seems to allow for setting playback to well over 100%; perhaps that would help give the laptop speakers some gain. Or it might blow them completely, I'm still not comfortable with the idea of setting these things to over what in a stricter world would be a maximum.
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby mrminty on Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:00 pm

igorzwx wrote:The drivers are the problem, indeed.
Both soundcard and videocards are problematic with Linux today,
and they tend to become more problematic every year.
Ubuntu 6.10 worked perfectly on my IBM notebook,
but Ubuntu 9.04 is a disaster on the same notebook.

By the way, you have not answered my question:

What is your sound card?

Type on Terminal:

lspci -v


I guess what you mean by that question is my audio controller, which is integrated in my laptop. The printed output from lshw (when I was running Ubuntu on it) is Intel 828011 (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller, 64 bit, clock 33MHz.

So, the problem is getting WORSE with development? Can you explain how and why this is happening? Maybe I should look for an older, better version on the torrent sites.

EDIT:
Here's the output from the command you had specified, under audio:

00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller (rev 03)
Subsystem: Toshiba America Info Systems Device ff66
Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 22
Memory at d6700000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K]
Capabilities: <access denied>
Kernel driver in use: HDA Intel
Kernel modules: snd-hda-intel

Hmmm - I didn't mention the capabilities which were listed by Ubuntu (which produced even weaker sound), but some were listed, no "access denied"! I listed something positive about pci, but I'm not sure if the last printout was before I followed the Ubuntu tutorials to dick around with Pulse Audio over the HDA controller (it only got worse there).
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby mrminty on Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:32 pm

rich_roast wrote:Just a quick thought, in a similar but opposite thread it was revealed that Pulse Audio allows for somehow setting volumes at over 100% :shock: I've just had a quick check and the same procedure seems to allow for setting playback to well over 100%; perhaps that would help give the laptop speakers some gain. Or it might blow them completely, I'm still not comfortable with the idea of setting these things to over what in a stricter world would be a maximum.


They seemed to be discussing microphone volume (input) - do you think the same trick will work for speaker output?
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby igorzwx on Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:50 pm

QUOTE: "00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller (rev 03)"

It is a fantastic High Definition Audio (HDA) sound card!!!

It seems to be supported by OSS4, but you have to compile OSS4 from Mercurial
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenSound

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_System
http://insanecoding.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... sorry.html

If you want to try OSS4, you may better install another Mint 7 in dual boot (10GB is enough)
and make experiments there.

You should try, of course, all solutions:

1. PulseAudio

2. ALSA+ESound
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=32725

3. OSS4
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenSound

The best strategy:
Install three Mints 7 (with different sound systems) in triple boot on the same box
and try them out.
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby mrminty on Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:23 am

igorzwx wrote:QUOTE: "00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audio Controller (rev 03)"

It is a fantastic High Definition Audio (HDA) sound card!!!

It seems to be supported by OSS4, but you have to compile OSS4 from Mercurial
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenSound

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Sound_System
http://insanecoding.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... sorry.html

If you want to try OSS4, you may better install another Mint 7 in dual boot (10GB is enough)
and make experiments there.

You should try, of course, all solutions:

1. PulseAudio

2. ALSA+ESound
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=32725

3. OSS4
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenSound

The best strategy:
Install three Mints 7 (with different sound systems) in triple boot on the same box
and try them out.


Thanks, and you're right, it is the drivers - and they all suck!

Listen up, all you Linux engineers who so obviously haven't been - it's not that there isn't any sound, it's a QUALITY issue, and a significant one at that! I've been through this with multiple distros (try nine), and I am lucky when I have audible sound at all.

PulseAudio is installed from the live CD - and while this has a gui to enable overdrive, there is static (but no high volume, and certainly nothing beyond my speaker capacity) if I push the output from 100% to 101%! Esound sounds exactly the same, and OSS4 doesn't work at all. So, I will not be dropping Windows, since I'll need it for playing dvds and watching online TV. If I just dropped Linux, I'd spend as much time defending important files through anti-malware scans as I will be switching between systems, and managing them both.

While I do understand that Microsoft has the advantage with getting OEM hardware built around Windows, I'm really getting fed up with the HONESTY problem with those who've wasted my time with claims of a system which will do everything which Windows can, in any comparable quality, (and in the fine print, it's "if you have the right hardware, AND the right driver, AND oh-by-the-way there are no Windows-comparable drivers, but if you find the right tutorial, AND never miss a step, AND that tutorial isn't out of date, inaccurate, or has typos, AND then the space aliens who have the right technology land as scheduled...). Example:
igorzwx wrote:It is a fantastic High Definition Audio (HDA) sound card!!!

Agreed. It really sounds fantastic through Windows. But, if you imply that it's fantastic for Linux, then I should be able to get a fantastic Linux driver for it, but there isn't one. Whenever there's a quality-related complaint, it's always downplayed by linux geeks as there-goes-another-whiny-technophobe. So, you don't like green eggs and ham? Try green eggs and green bacon! If you don't like green eggs with green bacon, well don't walk away before you've tried our green cheese omelette!
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby igorzwx on Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:34 am

Hi mrminty !

I see that you are an audiophile in the sense that you are able to distinguish very bad sound from fantastic sound. :D

If you are interested in hacking Linux,
we may try to fix OSS4.

What you need is a small partition (10GB) with Mint 7
and time, of course.

You are welcome.
We can discuss sound issues, Linux, etc.

EDIT: Have you reported the problem to OSS4 forum?
You should do this, perhaps, if you really need a working driver for your soundcard.
http://www.4front-tech.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby mrminty on Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:17 pm

igorzwx wrote:Hi mrminty !

I see that you are an audiophile in the sense that you are able to distinguish very bad sound from fantastic sound. :D

If you are interested in hacking Linux,
we may try to fix OSS4.

What you need is a small partition (10GB) with Mint 7
and time, of course.

Igor,
Thanks, but it depends on the likelihood of OSS4 producing stronger, cleaner output than Pulseaudio or Esound. Do you have strong inclination to believe it would be from experience/knowledge? Otherwise, I've got the house falling down around my head, and I've been loosing too much sleep as it is.

igorzwx wrote:You are welcome.
We can discuss sound issues, Linux, etc.

EDIT: Have you reported the problem to OSS4 forum?
You should do this, perhaps, if you really need a working driver for your soundcard.
http://www.4front-tech.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby igorzwx on Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:33 pm

Hi mrminty !

PulseAudio = the master bug
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=32637

OSS4 works well for me.
Fantastic performance!
On my old IMB notebook (of 2003, old card, no HDA),
I have Windows XP and Ubuntu 9.04 with OSS4 in dual boot.
OSS4 performs much better than Windows.
It is especially obvious for recordings.
I studied spectrograms with Audacity tools
(we can discuss such things too).

read this too:
http://martinbaselier.wordpress.com/

We can make it step by step.
And it really makes sense to report to OSS4 forum.
If you do not report, nothing will be fixed in the near future.

Best,
Igor
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby mrminty on Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:59 pm

igorzwx wrote:Hi mrminty !

PulseAudio = the master bug
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=32637

OSS4 works well for me.
Fantastic performance!
On my old IMB notebook (of 2003, old card, no HDA),
I have Windows XP and Ubuntu 9.04 with OSS4 in dual boot.
OSS4 performs much better than Windows.
It is especially obvious for recordings.
I studied spectrograms with Audacity tools
(we can discuss such things too).

read this too:
http://martinbaselier.wordpress.com/

I just went through this one - downloaded the .deb file, installed, everything went according to how it was supposed to right up through the end (so it seems), but my sound is still very faint as it's always been. There must be something else which I'm missing, but I did observe that ICH9 is missing from the supported hardware list, but took it on faith that it may be supported anyway, or the tutorial is dated (I bought my laptop new in February).

The output from
Code: Select all
lsmod | grep oss
is:
Code: Select all
oss_usb    107404    1    
oss_hdaudio            150964    3    
osscore                    588880    2    oss_usb,oss_hdaudio
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby optimize me on Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:37 am

rich_roast wrote:Just a quick thought, in a similar but opposite thread it was revealed that Pulse Audio allows for somehow setting volumes at over 100% :shock: I've just had a quick check and the same procedure seems to allow for setting playback to well over 100%; perhaps that would help give the laptop speakers some gain. Or it might blow them completely, I'm still not comfortable with the idea of setting these things to over what in a stricter world would be a maximum.

If it works for Nigel Tufnel....
spinaltap_11.jpg
spinaltap_11.jpg (40.71 KiB) Viewed 1251 times


As a side note, or really more to the point: The sound quality on my Toshiba Satellite a135-s4527 is quite horrible compared to windows. The sound card is the on-board 82801G/ICH7. Compared to my OEM Vista install, sound quality at the same volume levels is disgusting and always has been - the speakers snap, crackle, pop; it's got more distortion than an AC/DC concert.
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby igorzwx on Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:15 am

Hi mrminty and Optimize Me!

QUOTE: "but I did observe that ICH9 is missing from the supported hardware list, but took it on faith that it may be supported anyway, or the tutorial is dated (I bought my laptop new in February)."

The OSS4 Tutorial seems to be maintained by Temüjin, and this means that it is perfect.
The procedure is very simple. You have to hack Linux kernel and install there a kind of trojan,
or rootkit, if you want, named "Open Sound System version 4.2"

ICH9 and ICH10, and the like, are on the list of hardware supported by OSS4:
http://mercurial.opensound.com/?file/6b ... ists/Linux

Intel High Definition Audio (HDA):

68 oss_hdaudio pci8086,2668 Intel High Definition Audio (ICH6)
69 oss_hdaudio pci8086,27d8 Intel High Definition Audio (ICH7)
70 oss_hdaudio pci8086,269a Intel High Definition Audio (ESB2)
71 oss_hdaudio pci8086,284b Intel High Definition Audio (ICH8)
72 oss_hdaudio pci8086,293e Intel High Definition Audio (P35)
73 oss_hdaudio pci8086,293f Intel High Definition Audio (ICH9)
74 oss_hdaudio pci8086,3a3e Intel High Definition Audio (ICH10)
75 oss_hdaudio pci8086,3a6e Intel High Definition Audio (ICH10)
76 oss_hdaudio pci8086,3b56 Intel High Definition Audio (PCH)


For such cards, it is advisable to compile OSS4 from Mercurial,
following the official howto:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenSound

It is very simple. What you have to do is to copy and paste commands to Terminal and execute them.
But you have to be attentious !!!

You should do this:

Step 1: Purge the failed installation of OSS4

sudo dpkg --purge oss-linux

sudo reboot

Step 2: Compile OSS4 from Mercurial, following this howto [ Ubuntu 9.04 = Mint 7 ]:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenSound

Do not forget to install these packages:

sudo apt-get install -y binutils libgtk2.0-0 sed gcc libc6

sudo apt-get install -y build-essential linux-headers-`uname -r` gawk libtool libgtk2.0-dev

sudo apt-get install -y libesd0 libsdl1.2debian-oss

Read the howto, and follow it exactly [ Ubuntu 9.04 = Mint 7 ].

Look what is going on Terminal. At the end, it will tell you which soundcard is recognized.

After installation reboot the system:

sudo reboot


Step 3: TROUBLESHOOTING

Type on Terminal:

ossxmix

It will produce OSS Mixer GUI
It will show about 10 switches.
And you have some 1000 variants to try, not more.
Be patient!

Ask Optimize Me how to optimize the algorithm. :D

EDIT: this OSS4 GUIDE might be very helpful:
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/OSS

Run osstest on Terminal:

osstest

It should produce sound. If not, change switches and run osstest once more.
And so on and on.
see hints here:
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/OSS#Troubleshooting

If it does not help, report the problem here and to OSS4 forum
see:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OpenS ... leshooting

Good luck!
Last edited by igorzwx on Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby mrminty on Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:30 am

optimize me wrote:
rich_roast wrote:Just a quick thought, in a similar but opposite thread it was revealed that Pulse Audio allows for somehow setting volumes at over 100% :shock: I've just had a quick check and the same procedure seems to allow for setting playback to well over 100%; perhaps that would help give the laptop speakers some gain. Or it might blow them completely, I'm still not comfortable with the idea of setting these things to over what in a stricter world would be a maximum.

If it works for Nigel Tufnel....

You mean, "crank it up to eleven"? :)

I discovered that earlier, and the sound distorted when I pushed the output from 100% to 101%! It did not, however, "blow" the speakers, since they were distorting at volume way below their capacity (this is a really screwy driver problem), and they continue to perform clear and much louder when I reboot into Windows.
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Re: Got a list of supported laptop sound cards?

Postby igorzwx on Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:55 am

Hi friends!

Let us start a new thread about the evil pulse.

We can disscuss:
System-Wide Equalizer
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=789578

and other exotic innovations.

And overtones of 50Hz produced by PulseAudio in the recordings and playback (in USA, overtones of 60Hz),
and other artefacts.

A Fedora geek told me this:
"I don't think it is a 'bug' in pulse, it is the fact that
pulse is a sound server and runs at a specific frame rate. It has to
move all sound streams to that frame rate in order to play through the
sound device. It uses on the fly rate conversion, and this introduces
artifacts into the sound."

EDIT: In other words, it not a bug, it is a feature.
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