laptop wont boot with two hard drives connected

[all41]

I noticed you said you experienced an unsuccessful multi system usb creation so just offering this to the mix:
This is the boot screen of a good multisystem usb that I use everyday for something or another.
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p ... 94#p989223
The names of the iso files are copied to the multisystem boot screen---
did that somehow get written to the wrong place?

[nivedl]

Albert - we have tried removing the battery twice now. The unexplained boot entries and the inability to boot at all with both hard drives attached persists. Do you have any other ideas about what is needed?

[Dave B]

Thanks nivedl,

Due to website generic Lenovo CMOS battery removal information, just wanted to clarify there are no further battery connections located on the underside.

Back to the present issue, how would you like to proceed, try other tests, BIOS flash? Do not worry if you do not have Windows, you can legally download a trial, this will be covered in another post should you wish to try. I do not recommend using Windows 10 Developer Preview for this.

Still a mystery as to why the system clock is not being reset if BIOS is truly being reset, and computer has nothing else connected to it.

David

[nivedl]

David - Someone mentioned that mint might update the BIOS clock settings? I actually dont think I checked the date/time in BIOS prior to letting mint boot up at least once. Though if that is the case, it is strange that the date is correct but the time is not.

As far as moving forward it is not clear to me what other tests there are left to run. I am happy to try most anything. As far as flashing the BIOS, what is your opinion on the risk associated with this? It definitely seems like there is some type of bios issue, but I only want to go forward with risky fixes once other possibilities are exhausted. How easy is it to back up the bios in such a way that I could restore it to its current state if something goes wrong? Is it true that a hiccup durring the process could brick my computer? If the risk of rendering my computer permanently inoperable is significant I will probably have to wait until some work deadlines pass in a few weeks before trying it. What do you think?

[vl1969]

This us funny, I had exactly the same battery in my laptop.
Had to replace it, so cut the wrap and there was a nirmal cr2035 inside. Got a holder from RadioShack and make a removable bat. Now .

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

[Dave B]

You mean me? I previously asked (indirectly) if you booted Mint with a single drive or Mint live USB while connected to the Internet, before checking if the time was correct.

If connected to the Internet Mint will retrieve and update the time.

To answer questions in reverse, from a users perspective, yes a bad BIOS flash can render a computer useless if process is interrupted or there is a power failure during the flash. I would have mentioned all warnings before letting you proceed. In my many years with computers I have flashed several motherboards and other devices. As long as all precautions are strictly and carefully followed any risk is minimal.

Guaranteed BIOS backup will depend upon available manufacturers tools. No doubt there are 3rd party tools, I recommend manufacturers supplied tools.

A Windows BIOS update is far simpler than the older DOS method. As an aside, newer motherboards often have backup and update features built-in.

Considering points raised above, if manufacturers did not think it safe, or at least extremely low risk, they would withhold BIOS updates. Only reason usually to perform a BIOS update is to implement fixes for issues and hardware incompatibilities discovered after product release.

Other tests:
To test if there is a power issue, connect both HDD's plus as many computer powered USB devices you have (if run out of USB ports use a non-powered hub), boot from Mint live USB and check all hardware is working as expected. Copy one partition (around 10GB or less) from one HDD to the other using GParted right click 'copy & paste' see if the process completes successfully.

David

[nivedl]

I think the BIOS flash is really the most likely thing now. From reading on the Lenovo website "If you are using the Windows Flash Utility the previous version will be backed up in a ROM file." Which seems to suggest a backup is made at the same time. I may attempt to use a third party BIOS backup in addition, just to be safe. So, from what I understand, I need to make a windows live usb and run the Bios Update .exe file available on the Lenovo site. It seems like the most important thing is that the process does not get interrupted. What else should I know to do this safely?

[Dave B]

Good to hear the flash utility backs up the original BIOS, many offer such a feature, and it is usually enough. I can understand your belt and braces approach though, being Windows make sure to virus scan any downloaded third party software.

Personally I would not recommend using a Windows live USB environment as it increases possible stability risks (missing drivers may invoke hardware detection changes which in turn may momentarily stop a USB device from being recognised). Do you have a version of Windows you can install on your 500GB HDD?

With just your 500GB HDD in the primary bay, remove optical drive bay dock and any other peripherals.
Install Windows, then, before flashing the BIOS, I would recommend downloading and installing motherboard, graphics card and sound drivers, allow any requested restarts.

Disable Windows Updates to prevent any automated unwanted restarts.

Wait for a while to make sure no hardware detection changes and further requested restarts occur.

Download Lenovo BIOS Flash Utility and BIOS update, read all associated documentation carefully and follow all steps to the letter. Before flashing the BIOS, disable any anti-virus software you may have installed to scan downloaded files.

Read and sign the disclaimer (below).

Disclaimer:
David Black and Linux Mint Forums cannot be held responsible or in anyway liable in the event of something going wrong during the BIOS flash process.
You agree that you have read and fully understand all risks involved.

Please sign below

...........................................................


David

[nivedl]

Update...

I finally got around to flashing the BIOS to try and solve this problem (laptop only boots with one hard drive in place). I installed Windows ThinPC and ran the lenovo BIOS flash utility and it appears to have successfully updated the BIOS. The unexplained extra entries in the boot menu are now gone. But, the strange behaviour with two hard drive connected still persists. I can boot with either hard drive alone in either the main bay or the optical bay hard drive adapter, but if both are in place at the same time startup stalls at a black screen after the initial Lenovo BIOS screen. If anyone has any other thoughts I would be grateful to hear them, but I fear that I may need to give up on trying to fix this problem.

[Dave B]

Thanks nivedl for the update.

Great to hear BIOS update went well with successful removal of spurious drive entries. Still wonder how original BIOS became corrupt, but not to worry! Certainly a step in the right direction.

After BIOS flash, did you enter the BIOS and choose an option like 'Load Optimised Defaults', then add any custom settings? If not sure which settings to change, feel free to post some BIOS screen photos.

David

[nivedl]

David - I did go into BIOS and choose "default settings" and then changed one option - to allow virtualization (for virtualbox). Otherwise there are not very many options to change in my BIOS and they are all back to the way they were before. What next...

[gold_finger]

Strange problem!

The "ubuntu" and "linuxmint" options that were showing in your original screenshot of the BIOS makes me wonder if your system indeed has UEFI firmware, (but the manufacturer unhelpfully continues to refer to it as BIOS). I don't recall seeing anything like that screenshot in any BIOS-based computer I've used.

Having said that, I'm still not sure what could have happened to change the behavior of the system when two drives are in it. So, I'm going to ask for some additional info, but can't guarantee that the info will point to a solution.

Connect the two drives that were originally connected when problems started.

You have the "Boot Priority Order" in BIOS settings under Boot where you can set which drive to boot from. And you have another function key that gets you to a separate boot menu where you can choose devices for that session -- I think you said the F12 key does that. When you had both drives in the laptop, did you ever try using the F12 key's boot menu to pick a drive? (I'm not entirely clear whether or not you did try that way, or if you just stuck to changing the "Boot Priority Order". If you haven't, try that and see if you get same bad result.)

Report back result of above. Then (whether the F12 boot menu worked or not) continue with other info requested below.

Boot again and go into main BIOS settings to take another picture of the "BIOS" -- but this time take it of the "Information" section. As a matter of fact, if you don't mind -- take a new one of the "Configuration" and "Security" sections too. Post them as you did the other before and give us their links.

Reboot again with "live" Mint this time. (Do this while the two drives are still in the laptop.)

Use the F12 boot menu to boot the live medium and take a picture of what that screen shows. Post that picture also.

After live environment loads, open a terminal and enter the following commands.

List all specs of the laptop with this one.

Code: Select all

inxi -Fxz

Next, let's double-check boot mode of the "live" medium.

Code: Select all

ls /sys/firmware

Last, list partition structure on the drives.

Code: Select all

sudo parted -l

(Command ends in a lowercase letter "L", not a number 1.)

[nivedl]

gold_finger - thanks for taking a crack at this. I will answer all of your questions below. Please let me know if this give you any ideas about what might be going on.

1. I had previously tried booting from the multiboot menu (F12) but I did try again since flashing to BIOS just to cover my bases. No luck. Still hangs at a black screen if I try to boot from either hard drive from here when both are connected, though booting from the USB does still work from here.

2. Here are the screen shots of the BIOS menus with both drives in place:
http://s23.postimg.org/x7gaomesb/IMG_20 ... 39_687.jpg
http://s13.postimg.org/ig6d50llz/IMG_20 ... 54_372.jpg
http://s10.postimg.org/4ernt3md5/IMG_20 ... 04_890.jpg

3. Here is the multiboot menu with the usb in place
http://s12.postimg.org/x8p9rn3jx/IMG_20 ... 42_998.jpg

4. Here are the results of the terminal commands you requested:

Code: Select all

mint@mint ~ $ inxi -Fxz 
System:    Host: mint Kernel: 3.13.0-37-generic x86_64 (64 bit, gcc: 4.8.2) Desktop: Gnome Distro: Linux Mint 17.1 Rebecca 
Machine:   System: LENOVO (portable) product: 1024DDU version: Ideapad Z570 
           Mobo: LENOVO model: Emerald Lake version: FAB1 Bios: LENOVO version: 45CN38WW date: 10/21/2011 
CPU:       Dual core Intel Core i5-2450M CPU (-HT-MCP-) cache: 3072 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 9976.94 
           Clock Speeds: 1: 800.00 MHz 2: 800.00 MHz 3: 800.00 MHz 4: 800.00 MHz 
Graphics:  Card: Intel 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller bus-ID: 00:02.0 
           X.Org: 1.15.1 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) Resolution: 1366x768@60.0hz 
           GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Sandybridge Mobile GLX Version: 3.0 Mesa 10.1.3 Direct Rendering: Yes 
Audio:     Card: Intel 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family High Definition Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture ver: k3.13.0-37-generic 
Network:   Card-1: Realtek RTL8101E/RTL8102E PCI Express Fast Ethernet controller 
           driver: r8169 ver: 2.3LK-NAPI port: 2000 bus-ID: 03:00.0 
           IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter> 
           Card-2: Intel Centrino Wireless-N 1000 [Condor Peak] driver: iwlwifi ver: in-tree: bus-ID: 02:00.0 
           IF: wlan0 state: down mac: <filter> 
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 1527.8GB (1.0% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: Crucial_CT512M55 size: 512.1GB temp: 42C 
           2: id: /dev/sdb model: HGST_HTS721010A9 size: 1000.2GB temp: 29C 3: USB id: /dev/sdc model: DataTraveler_112 size: 15.5GB temp: 0C 
Partition: ID: / size: 3.9G used: 36M (1%) fs: overlayfs ID: swap-1 size: 8.50GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap 
           ID: swap-2 size: 4.20GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap 
RAID:      No RAID devices detected - /proc/mdstat and md_mod kernel raid module present 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 50.0C mobo: 41.0C 
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A 
Info:      Processes: 184 Uptime: 6 min Memory: 402.8/7898.7MB Runlevel: 2 Gcc sys: 4.8.2 Client: Shell inxi: 1.8.4
 
mint@mint ~ $ ls /sys/firmware/ 
acpi  memmap
 
mint@mint ~ $ sudo parted -l 
Model: ATA Crucial_CT512M55 (scsi) 
Disk /dev/sda: 512GB 
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B 
Partition Table: msdos 

Number  Start   End    Size    Type      File system     Flags 
 1      1049kB  504GB  504GB   primary   ext4            boot 
 2      504GB   512GB  8498MB  extended 
 5      504GB   512GB  8498MB  logical   linux-swap(v1) 


Model: ATA HGST HTS721010A9 (scsi) 
Disk /dev/sdb: 1000GB 
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B 
Partition Table: msdos 

Number  Start   End     Size    Type      File system     Flags 
 1      1049kB  996GB   996GB   primary   ext4            boot 
 2      996GB   1000GB  4203MB  extended 
 5      996GB   1000GB  4203MB  logical   linux-swap(v1) 


Model: Kingston DataTraveler 112 (scsi) 
Disk /dev/sdc: 15.5GB 
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B 
Partition Table: msdos 

Number  Start   End     Size    Type     File system  Flags 
 1      1049kB  15.5GB  15.5GB  primary  fat32        boot, lba 

[gold_finger]

Unfortunately, I don't see anything that looks like it should be a problem.

• BIOS screenshots don't show anything that indicates it's UEFI -- so it appears to be a regular BIOS. (Still mystified by the miscellaneous Ubuntu and Mint boot entries though. I've never seen that before in a BIOS Boot Order menu.)
• Laptop specs look fine and shouldn't be a problem for use with Linux.
• Boot mode is Legacy/BIOS (what you'd expect).
• Partitioning on both disks is MBR (what you'd expect).

Everything looks normal.

Plugged in "phoenix securecore tiano version 45CN38WW" to a search engine and one of the first results I saw was: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Lenovo-P-Y ... -p/2036210. Looks like someone with similar problem and could just be that the BIOS firmware used on your machine is flawed. I don't know -- just guessing because nothing else looks to be the problem.

P.s. Maybe you should make a post on the Lenovo forum. With any luck, they'll point you in the right direction.

[AlbertP]

Unfortunately, I don't see anything that looks like it should be a problem.

• BIOS screenshots don't show anything that indicates it's UEFI -- so it appears to be a regular BIOS. (Still mystified by the miscellaneous Ubuntu and Mint boot entries though. I've never seen that before in a BIOS Boot Order menu.)

Phoenix SecureCore Tiano, as shown on the top of the screenshots, is an UEFI product according to Phoenix's web site. It lacks the mouse-based interface that characterises many UEFI BIOSes, but I have seen that on more Lenovo laptops. My mother's Lenovo G500 also has a text-based BIOS, using UEFI technology.
The G500's BIOS is quite sane, it includes all the options you'd expect from a UEFI BIOS such as UEFI/Legacy boot and an option to disable Secure Boot. Your BIOS appears to be dumber.

[Dave B]

Hi nivedl,

Please will also be kind enough to post a photo of your BIOS 'Boot' section (don't mean F12 menu), thanks.

If you have no data to lose on either HDD, do you fancy trying a new experiment? Boot from your USB live Mint session, start GParted (Administration menu), using Drive menu select Create Partition Table..., for each hard drive apply the default msdos setting. Install Mint onto the first detected hard drive (sda). This is to make sure only one drive contains a boot loader, this shouldn't really be an issue as BIOS boot drive selection should be honoured, just trying new ideas.

If above does not help. Thinking laterally, since you are able to boot live USB with both hard drives in place, there is a possible temporary solution...

• Place an old blank (low capacity (no point using your latest and greatest)) SD card in the reader.
• Boot live Mint USB.
• Wipe previous hard drive Mint install.
• Then, while installing Mint to one of your hard drives, select Something else option, after setting up hard drive partitions, using Device for boot loader installation: (bottom of installation screen) place the boot loader on the SD card.
• After installation is complete, check if able to boot with both hard drives and SD card in place. As mentioned, this is a temporary fix to try and get you up and running with both drives.

Recommend using HDD for above tests, save your SSD for when we have a working solution.

David

[nivedl]

David - I tried your suggestions but to no avail. The idea of installing mint with the boot sector on a USB was a very creative idea! But it had the same behaviour as with the boot sector on the hard disk - ie booted only without the second hard drive in place. As you suspected, manually creating a new partition table on each drive before installing mint did not change anything either. Here is a pic of the current BIOS boot menu with both drives in place. With only one drive in it is the same, just without the second drive listed. -Devin
http://postimg.org/image/yjr2087tz/

[Dave B]

Thanks Devin for feedback, compliment and BIOS boot screen photo.

Please can you try placing your preferred hard drive at the top of the BIOS boot list (use F5 / F6 to change a drives' position), then USB HDD:, followed by second hard drive, leave the rest as is.

After above changes, to boot from USB you may need to use F12 Boot menu, select the relevant USB device.

Try installing Mint again (you'll be an expert by now! ) to the first detected hard drive listed as sda. Restart PC, if still not booting from hard drive, (with USB devices unplugged) enter F12 menu and try selecting the hard drive containing Mint installation.

If none of the above helps, change BIOS boot first device back to USB HDD:, then try previous idea, except replace SD card with another USB pen drive, or place your SD card in a USB SD card reader. Just a test, some systems do not allow booting from a built-in SD card reader.

Thanks.

David

[gold_finger]

Unfortunately, I don't see anything that looks like it should be a problem.

• BIOS screenshots don't show anything that indicates it's UEFI -- so it appears to be a regular BIOS. (Still mystified by the miscellaneous Ubuntu and Mint boot entries though. I've never seen that before in a BIOS Boot Order menu.)

Phoenix SecureCore Tiano, as shown on the top of the screenshots, is an UEFI product according to Phoenix's web site. It lacks the mouse-based interface that characterises many UEFI BIOSes, but I have seen that on more Lenovo laptops. My mother's Lenovo G500 also has a text-based BIOS, using UEFI technology.
The G500's BIOS is quite sane, it includes all the options you'd expect from a UEFI BIOS such as UEFI/Legacy boot and an option to disable Secure Boot. Your BIOS appears to be dumber.

@AlbertP,

Thanks for the info. When I had looked a their site I saw that the current version of Phoenix SecureCore Tiano was UEFI, but I could not tell whether the OP's version was or not. So, I was hoping additional screenshots would clear that up -- but apparently not. Assuming you're right and OP's version is also UEFI, that would explain the boot entries for Ubuntu and Mint.

Seems that OP's version is lacking in options or functionality then -- just as you said it "appears to be dumber".

[nivedl]

David - I installing to the drive after moving it to the top of the priority list in BIOS does not solve the problem. Given everything I (we) have tried, I am very skeptical that it is a matter of changing the boot order to some very specific setup. Also, I actually did use a USB to test your idea of putting the boot section on a separate device because I did not have an SD card available. Plus, as I said, it did work with the boot section on the USB stick when only one drive was in place. Any other thoughts?