Elyssa KDE Beta update

[Boo]

So what is happening with the Elyssa KDE Beta I hear you all ask?
well im upto beta 023, but the real problem looks to be firefox 3.
it is buggy and has stuff disabled and in general is being a pain in the arse.
we are upto our 3rd ff, rc something.
it may just play out that a KDE beta wont be released until ff is stable.

Boo

[Fred]

Boo,

In my opinion that would be the thing to do. If the system is not stable, it is not ready. Firefox is really becoming a pain, but there really isn't another good alternative at the distro level that I know of.

Stand by you guns. Don't turn it loose until it is solid and ready.

Thanks so much for all your efforts.

Fred

[deadguy]

take your time Boo!

Daryna KDE is rock solid stable (IMHO)
if Elyssa KDE is like that, it will be awesome

[rec9140]

So what is happening with the Elyssa KDE Beta I hear you all ask?
well im upto beta 023, but the real problem looks to be firefox 3.
it is buggy and has stuff disabled and in general is being a pain in the arse.
we are upto our 3rd ff, rc something.
it may just play out that a KDE beta wont be released until ff is stable.

First, THANK YOU for ALL of your FANTASTIC WORK.

Second, just dump it This is KDE and we use Konqueror.


If its really neccesary to include ff then use an older version which is stable, and from the resounding screams from most, thats NOT ff 3.

[roadrash]

If its really neccesary to include ff then use an older version which is stable, and from the resounding screams from most, thats NOT ff 3.

Just use a stable version of firefox. Anyone who wants the latest version can always install it themselves via synaptic etc.

[rfpa]

If its really neccesary to include ff then use an older version which is stable, and from the resounding screams from most, thats NOT ff 3.

Just use a stable version of firefox. Anyone who wants the latest version can always install it themselves via synaptic etc.

Exactly. Why not use firefox 2? I read somewhere that firefox 3 will take some time before it gets to the final version.

[AK Dave]

I'm totally fine with Konquerer.

[Fred]

AK Dave wrote:

I'm totally fine with Konquerer.

Dave, on a personal level, I can agree with you. But on a distro level, to let something out on the street, so to speak, that won't run Firefox without breaking or getting flaky would be a mistake. Firefox is a very popular program that needs to run well on Mint 5 KDE, regardless of whether it is included by default or not. I believe that to do otherwise would reflect poorly on the distro at least as much as it did on Firefox itself.

Fred

[AK Dave]

Firefox is popular and has some chrome that Konquerer lacks. FF2 is stable everywhere I've used it; FF3 (even rc1) is flakey to the point of unusability (but not as flakey as Dolphin-KDE4!). I'll be kind and say that I've found FF3 to be unreliable. But I'm also not a FF poweruser. So I really don't count.

I suppose as a distro thing, you have to consider what "most people" are going to look for and try to use AND how they're going to try to use it. Which means they'll look for FF, want the "latest", want Flash, and then go directlty to YouTube and MySpace and other crap that I struggle to keep my kids from using. And FF fails. Which is embarassing.

I think it is important to note that it isn't the distro that is failing. It isn't Ubuntu crashing. It isn't Elyssa crashing. It isn't a Kubuntu problem. Its a Firefox problem, which is compounded and made worse with certain plugins. I think it is also a Flash10 problem, because FF3rc1 is pretty solid on its own or with Flash9.

Now, I didn't realize that Mint used a specially-branded Firefox that is a source of income. Thats news to me. I thought that Mint's FF just defaulted to a linux.mint.com/start as a homepage and didn't give it another thought. Its a good useful homepage. I've never bothered to change it on any Daryna or Elyssa install I've performed. If Mint is a source of income, then that wraps a whole 'nuther layer of complication on top of the problem. No longer is is sufficient to scrap FF for Konq and tell users to deal with it.

Well, if you want to expand the beta pool for Elyssa-KDE I'm willing to help and I can be counted on to ignore FF in favor of Konq. Gimme Konq, Amarok, Ktorrent, Yakuake, and OO Write. Plus Akregator. Thats slick. I'm one happy camper with that much. Its been a month since I've used a desktop email client other than at work. I just wish Akregator could pipe RSS feeds to my Palm. That would be awesome, like Avantgo only with feeds I'm actually interested in reading.

The more that Elyssa-KDE is delayed, the closer we get to OO3's release and the closer we get to a stable Amarok-2. Woot!

OTOH, at least you're not holding for some issue related to compiz. I live very happily without Compiz, Beryl, Emerald, whatever. A stable restricted ATI driver to enable powersave on my graphics, a kernel settings tweak with kpowersave to enable powersave on my CPU, and I get enough battery life to make me happy. I don't need much. But what I do need I want to work very well, which is why I really appreciate Mint.

[dracorX]

hi all

Boo, will kde4 be available in repos as "alternative kde" which means one can use it WITHOUT ruining the rock stable kde 3x?

[AK Dave]

I don't think there is a "win-win" answer with KDE4. But I think it would be safer to save KDE4 for a few months and a "Mint 5.5" rollup. I don't think that even KDE4.1 is ready for prime time. I see it as something for developers not end users, and Mint aimed at end users not developers.

So right now you could, I suppose, if you know what you're doing slap KDE4 on top of Elyssa. Sure. If you know what you're doing. If thats what you really want. Its your system. Don't blame Mint when it doesn't work right. But if it were readily available even as an "unsupported" package, people who don't know what they're doing will install it anyways. "If it didn't work, it wouldn't be available as a package." Then when it doesn't work right, Mint takes the blame for "poor integration" or "Mintxxxx app doesn't work right" or "I do X Y or Z now".

My prognostication is that KDE4.5 will be as rock solid as is KDE3.5, feature laden, app rich, and desktop ready. It will probably be there by 4.2. But it won't be there at 4.1. Let the Fedoras and Kubuntus take the beating for KDE4. Thats my opinion.

I don't want it to use it, so I am not particularly interested in seeing it. Anyone who really really really wants KDE4 can install it anyways. I have one of my test partitions with Kubuntu/KDE4. Its not ready for Mint.

[rec9140]

Kubuntu screwed up with the inclusion of KDE4. I know it's just a "remix cd", but as a lot, particularly new ones, of users will only want the latest "bleeding edge", you can be sure they will go for this one and hate it.

I also believe it "safer" to wait for 4.2 before including it in Mint.
4.2 should be out around the end of the year, ubuntu is released in october so, as there are about 2-3 months after ubuntu for Mint to be released, i guess that might just go kinda well for that.

Far as I am concerned KDE 4 > /dev/null now and in the future.

I am not interested in KDEsta. Way too much trying to emulate vistcrap. This is one of the reasons I am on KMint.

[dracorX]

Kubuntu screwed up with the inclusion of KDE4. I know it's just a "remix cd", but as a lot, particularly new ones, of users will only want the latest "bleeding edge", you can be sure they will go for this one and hate it.

I also believe it "safer" to wait for 4.2 before including it in Mint.
4.2 should be out around the end of the year, ubuntu is released in october so, as there are about 2-3 months after ubuntu for Mint to be released, i guess that might just go kinda well for that.

Far as I am concerned KDE 4 > /dev/null now and in the future.

I am not interested in KDEsta. Way too much trying to emulate vistcrap. This is one of the reasons I am on KMint.

Well, I so don't agree with KDEsta statement. Comeon. I can understand that some might not like it, but KDE4 is more than a vista clone. In fact, it has some quite new concepts (partly implemented, partly waiting for implementation). Don't make it bad just cause you don't like it.

As for the current state, I do agree, it's nowhere near the state of kde 3.5x, but it's improving day by day.

@ed@mint (looks funny): that was the answer I wanted, thanks

[rec9140]

]Well, I so don't agree with KDEsta statement. Comeon. I can understand that some might not like it, but KDE4 is more than a vista clone. In fact, it has some quite new concepts (partly implemented, partly waiting for implementation). Don't make it bad just cause you don't like it.

Removed.

[dracorX]

I don't engage in useless flaming.

[AK Dave]

I'm looking at Enlightenment as an alternative to KDE4.

[Husse]

Yes, please refrain from flaming. It's not so "bad" on this page but it could lead in the really wrong direction

[brando569]

If its really neccesary to include ff then use an older version which is stable, and from the resounding screams from most, thats NOT ff 3.

Just use a stable version of firefox. Anyone who wants the latest version can always install it themselves via synaptic etc.

Exactly. Why not use firefox 2? I read somewhere that firefox 3 will take some time before it gets to the final version.

exactly my thoughts also, if FF3 is the only thing that is holding back the development, skip it and use a stable version. its not essential to use FF3 for KDE or Mint .

[AK Dave]

If FF3 was the big baddie holding back Elyssa-KDE, then maybe there is hope in sight. Elyssa is stable with FF3 without problem, and I've always blamed the FF3 problem on Mozilla (FF) and Macromedia (Flash) not Mint.

Right now given the choice between Elyssa and Daryna-KDE my preferred system is still Daryna-KDE.

Bring on Elyssa-KDE beta/rc!

[Husse]

Clem needs some rest and after that he can help Boo with the KDE edition. I don't think it'll take all that long, we are close to a public beta...