Remove Firefox, Replace T'bird with Kontact in Mint KDE 6

[ujwal10101]

Linux Mint KDE is a KDE distro, so why were Firefox and Thunderbird chosen as the defaults when we have Konqueror and Kontact as the best KDE applications for the job? I know Firefox and T'bird are GTK applications not GNOME. But KDE applications are heavily integrated. Plus Firefox and Thunderbird use a separate widget engine which makes them run slowly and take up a lot of space on the Live DVD. (I would have also suggested replace OpenOffice with KOffice but Oo.o has better MS Office interoperability, which quite important for many people)

[ujwal10101]

People who are going to switch from windows are probably going to choose GNOME anyway, since it is the main edition and gets a lot of attention. Most people who use KDE use it because they like it and prefer it to GNOME. That's why its a community edition. So let KDE fans use KDE apps.

[Gnarly]

Well when I switched to Linux a couple of years ago, I choose KDE as the lay out is similar to windows. Gnome to me looks too cartoonish for my taste. As far as Internet Browsers go Firefox is leaps and bounds above Konqueror. I do like Konqueror as a file manager though.
Also most who switch to linux are probably already familiar with Firefox and Thunderbird and do not want to give up all the Plugins.
Anyway if I dont like a particular program I just uninstall it. Having the choice is a great thing about Linux.

[rec9140]

KDE based.... then KDE based apps should be the defaults.

Email - KMail

Browser - Konqueror

I don't use Kontact, but if its the default for whatever it does, fine, with me.

I don't care for ff and its counterpart at all, so their inclusion or exclusion is irrelevant to me, but if included then they should not be the defaults.

[Yownanymous]

I use GNOME, but I think you should use the default KDE applications for a KDE distro.

[Thomas]

You can install Firefox without all of GTK and Gnome, ya know, Just run this:

Code: Select all

sudo aptitude install firefox-3.0 ubufox= gksu=

[Needs]

You can install Firefox without all of GTK and Gnome, ya know, Just run this:

Code: Select all

sudo aptitude install firefox-3.0 ubufox= gksu=

sudo apt-get install krusader
sudo apt-get install vlc
sudo apt-get install amarok-kde4
sudo apt-get install avidemux-qt
sudo apt-get install kdenlive-kde4
sudo apt-get install karbon-kde4
sudo apt-get install krita-kde4
sudo apt-get install partimage
sudo apt-get install ee
sudo apt-get install mc
sudo apt-get install unrar
sudo apt-get install p7zip
...

[GoustiFruit]

No. I'm still using Windows and need to share my profiles between Linux and Windows, so I need TB. Same goes for the browser, except that I'm using preferably Opera (which can also share profiles between OSes).

[linuxviolin]

so most who switch to linux are probably already familiar with Firefox and Thunderbird

You are right about Firefox but not about Thunderbird.

I guess Firefox should be there in the menu, it is inevitable but the default browser should be set up to Konqueror. The user is free to change that after the install if he/she wants.

For mail Thunderbird is less obligatory in the default install, I guess. Even on Windows there are many mail clients and many people use others apps: Outlook Express, Outlook, The Bat! etc so it's perhaps possible to make it available in the menu but the default must be KMail (plus it's a very good mail reader, not less than Thunderbird)

Hey, KDE Desktop = KDE apps, preferably...

Using a default browser and email client they are not familiar with will put people off.

No, I don't buy this! If a guy tries a new toy he/she knows he/she will find new things, novelties, if he/she doesn't want then he/she stays with his old toys ...

[Fred]

When the user in question first started using Windows they didn't know anything about the available apps. Why is it now suddenly necessary to have apps s/he was familiar with on Windows, to use Linux? That is illogical.

A new user coming from Windows should be approaching Linux as a learning experience. Learning a better way, enabling them in the long run to do more with less. A Windows user approaching Linux as a cheaper, better Windows drop-in replacement is wasting his time. He is destined to be disappointed, and you do him no favors by tricking him into believing otherwise.

Fred

[linuxviolin]

Fred, I like you Well said!

[GoustiFruit]

I don't agree with Fred. When you have used a system for a long time, you have all your data in specific formats and softwares, you don't want to lose them all just for the sake of changing your OS. Usually you want to migrate slowly, you need to find your marks, and most probably you don't decide from one day to the other to simply abandon Windows for another system, which you absolutely don't know.

[linuxviolin]

GoustiFruit, this can be valid for Firefox but not really for Thunderbird. As I said in my last post Firefox is inevitable and it must be in the menu but by default "the browser should be set up to Konqueror". About Thunderbird, also as I said, "even on Windows there are many mail clients and many people use others apps: Outlook Express, Outlook, The Bat! etc" so I don't think Thunderbird is inevitable, it may not be there...

And if a user makes the choice to change his/her OS, we can suppose he/she knows he/she will find new things... If not, if he wants to regain his/her Windows in Linux then he/she should stay with Windows. Linux MUST NOT be and become a new Windows!

[Fred]

GoustiFruit wrote:

I don't agree with Fred. When you have used a system for a long time, you have all your data in specific formats...

Congratulations sir, you have now joined the horde of many!

My point was not formats. Converting formats from proprietary to open is always going to be a tedious and frustrating task, no matter when it is done. This is part of the lock-in most Windows converts are attempting to escape. It won't be easy or fun.

Attempting to remain with proprietary programs as much as possible only makes the eventual task of conversion more difficult. Yes, there are some applications that are reasonably open on Windows as well as Linux, but they are few. The sooner you make the decision to break with the past and move on, as with many things in life, the better off you will be.

Being an old dumb country boy I look at it like straddling a fence. If you slip the results will be painful. The sooner you get off the fence the better.

Fred

[Eddie Wilson]

I agree that KDE should contain KDE apps. But there is nothing wrong with Firefox being included also. The e-mail clients are a moot point. As far as people saying Linux shouldn't act like MS Windows is not really a point at all. LInux is not going to act like Windows because its not, so thats more of a wasted comment. Furthermore there is nothing wrong for a person wanting their Linux install to look like or to be somewhat familiar to the os they used before. The statement made that If they want Windows, they should just use Windows, makes really no sense and really is irrelevant. People are looking for a replacement for MS Windows or they wouldn't give Linux a second thought and I believe LinuxMInt is made the way it is for that purpose. People should concentrate on Linux more and not really worry about MS Windows. What would be the point?

[linuxviolin]

But there is nothing wrong with Firefox being included also.

Yes. As I said Firefox seems inevitable but the default browser must be Konqueror.

The e-mail clients are a moot point.

As I said also, there are many clients and many people use other clients than Thunderbird, even on Windows, so it's not at all inevitable and the default must be KMail.

About Windows vs Linux, I am in complete disagree with you. "a wasted comment"? "irrelevant"? I don't think so, sorry. And "LInux is not going to act like Windows because its not", hmm with crap like compiz, Mono, distrib which remove the root password for certain administrative tasks etc, yes, some people seeks to make Linux like Windows... "People are looking for a replacement for MS Windows ", Linux is not, must not be a replacement but an alternative to Windows, it's not the same thing. If Linux becomes a "replacement", or an "equivalent", to Windows, that is the end/death of Linux, we will have to seek refuge elsewhere

[kage]

and the default must be KMail.

Linux is all about freedom. Freedom to install or remove what you like and/or what you need.

Mint works fine for me although i do not have the same taste as Boo.
So i simple grab what i feel fine with and delete what i don't need.
No 2 persons are equal.

Why shouldn't every user have his/her freedom of choice?

have fun!
kage

[linuxviolin]

and the default must be KMail.

Linux is all about freedom. Freedom to install or remove what you like and/or what you need.

Mint works fine for me although i do not have the same taste as Boo.
So i simple grab what i feel fine with and delete what i don't need.
No 2 persons are equal.

Why shouldn't every user have his/her freedom of choice?

have fun!
kage

You misunderstand this topic! Obviously the user has the choice but we talk here about the default apps, Mint must have default apps at install, right? Of course after install the user makes what he/she wants but it's not the problem here, I'm sorry.

[kage]

and the default must be KMail.

Linux is all about freedom. Freedom to install or remove what you like and/or what you need.

Mint works fine for me although i do not have the same taste as Boo.
So i simple grab what i feel fine with and delete what i don't need.
No 2 persons are equal.

Why shouldn't every user have his/her freedom of choice?

have fun!
kage

You misunderstand this topic! Obviously the user has the choice but we talk here about the default apps, Mint must have default apps at install, right? Of course after install the user makes what he/she wants but it's not the problem here, I'm sorry.

No i didn't
If you and i have freedom of choice, why shouldn't have the mint dev team?

greetz from Holland
kage

[linuxviolin]

If you and i have freedom of choice, why shouldn't have the mint dev team?

In whatever way, it's the Mint Team who decides at the end. But it must not listen advices, suggestions of the users? If we follow your reasoning, it makes what it wants as it wants, without consultation and if you don't like, what? Shut up or go out? Hmm not really the right spirit, this doesn't remember that good things... And it looks a bit like the Microsoft politic, right? I decide, you follow... (ok ok, I know, you have the possibility for changing everything after install if you want, but the default config, apps... are very important and they can make a user will like or not the distro and so if he/she will use it for example... The first impression is an important thing)

Mint, like other distros need default apps and it seems important the users give their opinion, especially for a Community Edition, and don't forget, distros are made for the users, again especially a Community Edition, so users advices are always interesting. Period.