Mint 13 XFCE

[sunewbie]

I read the thread No more Xubuntu based Linux Mint Xfce.

and found a valuable suggestion by nunol

Perhaps some sort of compromise could be reached, Mint XFCE is Debian based and rolling but a Xubuntu based version of Mint with XFCE could be made on top of every LTS version.

This way every two years you can have your Xubuntu based Mint XFCE and only then would the Mint devs have to work on it.

Only an LTS version every 2 years would be great.

[tdockery97]

I believe starting in this cycle you will see the LTS only come out every 4 years. Ubuntu based LTS is going to 5 years.

[gn2]

Ubuntu based LTS is going to 5 years.

That's excellent news, where did you hear about that?

[kijin]

Only an LTS version every 2 years would be great.

Sounds reasonable. Main Edition (Cinnamon) every 6 months following Ubuntu's regular schedule, KDE Edition maybe every year, XFCE Edition every 2 years following Ubuntu's LTS schedule, and a rolling Debian Edition. It would be more manageable than releasing a new version of everything every 6 months. 12.04 would be a good time to synchronize the calendar.

But 4 years sounds too long. Remember what Linux on the desktop was like 4 years ago? (shudder)

[tomast]

I vote for Mint XFCE based on Debian Stable.
I wouldn't mind if they just completely dumped Ubuntu and Gnome 3.

[tdockery97]

Ubuntu based LTS is going to 5 years.

That's excellent news, where did you hear about that?

Ubuntu LTS: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS

Starts with version 12.04, which is what Mint 13 will be based on.

[Hawkeye_52]

Sunewbie,

Just wanted you to know, whether this thread really leads to any strategy changes in Linux Mint's line up or not, this has been a great platform to exchange ideas about the future of Linux Mint, and how best to serve its users.

Congratulations on stirring the intellectual juices of so many people ...

Hawkeye

[KBD47]

I believe starting in this cycle you will see the LTS only come out every 4 years. Ubuntu based LTS is going to 5 years.

I just read this:
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/kubun
tu-xubuntu-12-04-become-long-term-suppor
t-releases/

Interesting, and kind of disappointing that Xubuntu will only be a 3 year LTS. I had hoped to put it on an old desktop and leave it there for the rest of its life. Kubuntu and Edubuntu will get 5 years support. It kind of makes me wonder if Mint will be 3 or 5 years LTS now. Also kind of makes me glad I jumped into the Debian rolling release end of the pool.
KBD47

[altair4]

I just read this:
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/kubun
tu-xubuntu-12-04-become-long-term-suppor
t-releases/

Interesting, and kind of disappointing that Xubuntu will only be a 3 year LTS. I had hoped to put it on an old desktop and leave it there for the rest of its life. Kubuntu and Edubuntu will get 5 years support. It kind of makes me wonder if Mint will be 3 or 5 years LTS now. Also kind of makes me glad I jumped into the Debian rolling release end of the pool.
KBD47

Maybe it's because of this:

XFCE will start migration to GTK+ 3 after their next release (the libraries also used by GNOME 3).

Perhaps Xubuntu is trying to get in sync with XFCE's roadmap so they don't have to maintain 2 different bases.

[asymmetros]

Eventhough LXDE and XFCE are developed keeping in mind older hardware, still they can be used as a main DE in modern hardware. Why can’t they?

Amen! I totally agree with that Some people think xfce as a poor man's desktop, something that you use in secondary, old machine. But i do prefer xfce, even in my main laptop which can runs even kde or gnome. My opinion is that Xfce scores high regarding functionality and allows a lot (and easy!) customization either. Also, i share the opinion that a desktop is good when you do not really notice it and it allows you to do your work without dictating you how.

A lighter application is not necessary inferior then a “heavy” or a more popular one. I had spent much time in trying to select (from synaptic) applications more suited to my preferences and needs. This period of time for example, my favourite music players are (random order) amarok, moc, vlc (clementine is a good choice too). Geeqie is a lightweight image viewer but i am using it almost exclusively (feh rarely). I left behind the “usual suspects”, gthumb, shotwell, eog, f-spot. Abiword is more than adequate for more users. Personally, instead of any word processor, i use lyx. And no gedit too: mousepad is just excellent for simple tasks -for more serious things, geany is the answer.
So, my point is that not only Xfce is suitable even for the latest hardware and/or powerful machines -the same goes also for any single application, from the lighter to the heavier. It depends to the user to check what works better for him.

@ xenopeek, kijin ; Thanks for the clarification. I guess that for Xfce, transition to GTK3 will be well-timed and painless enough for users that do not want radical changes. We ll see that too.

[KBD47]

altair4, I would like to think that was it, but the reality is that they just don't have enough people to support it so long. Same with Lubuntu but it's worse, Lubuntu doesn't even have the people for 3 years of LTS, I know, I've argued with them about how important a Lubuntu LTS could be. They just can't do it. I was hoping the Xubuntu people were in better shape, they evidently are, but not enough for 5 years LTS Xubuntu support
I've made the argument regarding Lubuntu as follows: If I take Ubuntu 12.04 LTS and install LXDE on it, it would still have 5 years support. And if Lubuntu is pointing to the Ubuntu repositories, how could it not also have 5 years support since Ubuntu LTS is 5 years?
I don't know that I got good answers to those questions, but the bottom line was no LTS for Lubuntu
KBD47

[gn2]

Ubuntu LTS: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS

Starts with version 12.04, which is what Mint 13 will be based on.

Thankyou

[kijin]

I've made the argument regarding Lubuntu as follows: If I take Ubuntu 12.04 LTS and install LXDE on it, it would still have 5 years support. And if Lubuntu is pointing to the Ubuntu repositories, how could it not also have 5 years support since Ubuntu LTS is 5 years?

Well, yes, the base system as well as any package that is shared between all the *buntu's will be supported for 5 years, no matter what DE you use.

This situation might actually be acceptable, as long as there are no glaring bugs in the DE-specific packages and you keep updating essential programs such as Firefox and LibreOffice. After all, when was the last time you got hacked because of a vulnerability in your desktop panel?

[KBD47]

If I actually decided to use a base and put a desktop on it for the 5 years support I would use Mint 13. I've already tried different desktops on Mint 12 and they worked well, Xfce4 session and LXDE worked fine on Mint 12, so there should be no problem on Mint 13. That would be of course if Mint 13 has 5 full years LTS support.
KBD47

[sunewbie]

Thanks Hawkeye_52

It is good to see such inputs. I learn a lot and many times get new insights. I am one of the few end users who has more than 200 posts (though i have helped some newbies ... successfully ). Else end users are not much active in forums.

Looking at the comments, there are several ways to go

1) Reduce the number of versions
2) Change the release cycle from 6 month to 12 months for selected editions.
3) Concentrate only on LTS versions - Even if Xubuntu is supported for 3 years, you have one full year to develop LTS til the current LTS reaches EOL.



4) I do not mind even if the main edition has 2 year release cycle LTS to LTS.

Advantages are:

Other versions may come as preview / dev version for avid users and not for newbies (no offenses). This will be build platform for next LTS release and the direction of project will be more community based. Since you have one full year to develop other editions like XFCE, KDE, you have ample of time to release. The newer version will always have more stuff worth upgrading. This will maintain the quality of a distro. How many (significant) differences are found in newer versions of FF after it has switched to 6 week release cycle?

In this way, maintenance will decrease. You get ample of time to innovate. There is no pressure of time limit. Community will have to dedicate lesser time to support.Since each versions are released after 2 years, older replies are still valid for trouble shooting and older threads can be triggered again. Many newbies do not even need to ask questions as most of them are already answered. Community will have more time to develop maintain quality guides, wiki, documentation. This will increase the reputation of already popular mint support as a rock solid distro. Sticky threads like Linux Mint Tips & Tricks Thread, considerations before you install, Beginners guide to newbies, etc are so useful and are very popular. How if more of them are created by the active inputs from all users making it a one stop solution??

In short, lesser the editions or longer the release cycle, less is the stress and dedication of time of both community and devs.

Even though mint has reputation for troubleshooting, with experienced users helping newbies, asking too many questions creates doubts. From a different standpoint, asking lesser questions and getting precise to-the-point answers in smaller threads i.e. threads with less replies are also an asset.

Unless there is a lib issue, I do not think that upgrading apps like FF and LibreOffice to their latest will create stability issue (Do correct me if it does)

IMO, LTS to LTS release will be easier than current 6 month cycle as it will decrease maintenance, since there are lesser versions and editions that simultaneously need security fixes and updates. No idea about time needed to maintain LMDE.

I know my comments are off topic, but still they cover my poll - LM 13 XFCE (ubuntu based)

My comments may also stir another conversion, which may deviate this thread, but still I think it is an important discussion. Maybe mods can look into this.

[sunewbie]

I believe starting in this cycle you will see the LTS only come out every 4 years. Ubuntu based LTS is going to 5 years.

I read about it on OMG! Ubuntu.

This is good news for companies and even End Users. This will also give Devs more time to release another LTS. So if they cant manage in 2 years, they can release after 3 years

They can give 2 / 3 months for one flavour after the release of Main edition.

some have suggested to install XFCE or any DE on main distro. Well in Ubuntu forums, when LTS was supported for 3 years, some have even suggested that install Ubuntu server, install DE and get 5 years support

Hey, but is Clem going to support LTS for 5 years ????

Why have we taken it for granted? Has he officially announced ?

---

any more suggestions? Ideas? critics ?? fellow Minters

[jeffreyC]

If you read the official Ubuntu page you will see that LTS releases will still be released every 2 years.

"A new LTS version is released every 2 years. In previous releases, a Long Term Support (LTS) version had 3 years support on Ubuntu (Desktop) and 5 years on Ubuntu Server. Starting with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, both versions will receive 5 years support."

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS

I do agree that not only users of old or slow computers benefit from Xfce.
I am going to use it on a Core i5 with 8 gb of RAM.
Why?
Speed and minimalism.

[sunewbie]

@jeffreyC

I know that new LTS will be released every 2 years.

Ubuntu's Main, KDE will be supported for 5 years
XFCE for 3 years.

[sunewbie]

sorry somehow last part of reply was deleted.

5 year release cycle will give more time to innovate without pressure or dealline.

[sanda]

I guess that for Xfce, transition to GTK3 will be well-timed and painless enough

amen |X|| with my fingers crossed

Compared to other xfce distros, Mint's Debian+xfce really does feel "unpolished"...
...but under the hood (many aren't even exposed via .desktop files, which is part of why I'm agreeing it's "unpolished")
are some cool Gnome leftovers. For instance: task manager applet is a Debian component, but System Monitor is a Gnome component. I sure would (and do, when running other xfce distros) miss having System Monitor at hand.

xfce project is somewhere around ? "nine years young". It's leader seems to be burned out (begging for additional devs to sign on). The project is going nowhere, fast. Its bugzilla reporting system is intimidatingly complex (fuggetaboutit). Nine years into things, its functionality is "sensible"... but, comparatively, is inadequate. Thunar does not rock. Thunar + catfish... sucks. Traversing across myriad applets trying to figure out where to accomplish settings changes is tiresome...

xfce panel + plugin + gnome deskbar applet = pretty impressive.
Idunno why Mint devs didn't put those pieces together. Yeah, they're spread too thin, and too rushed...

For file searches, as shipped, mint's "locate" /etc/locatedb database isn't even triggered to regularly update.
Maybe Synaptic does so, via post-install; maybe MintUpdate does as well.
We also have Gam (gamin) as a search backend... but Thunar is blind.

I'm suggesting that xfce ain't gonna save us. It's up to us to fill-in-the-blanks to make better use of xfce.
Have you ever tried to edit the menu? OMG, what a maddening chore!
That's not specific to xfce, it's just following the freedesktop.org standard... but Gnome / KDE / Trinity / Ubrickquitty et al, yeah, I can't blame 'em for canning the "rigid" menu contsruct in favor of drag-to-arrange grouped panels. Ha! Act-ibbities! Like windows three-point-oh, on an acid trip! Drag an app window and it "flutters like a flag in the wind"?!? Dude, pass the bong...

I'm convinced that our numbers are too few to command (or to merit) the Mint devs expending a lot of effort in maintaining this extra version. Maybe exton will be willing to create a Mint-subsidiary (distributed via mint; supported via a dedicated subforum here wwwwwwway over in the corner)? That approach seems to have worked very well for PCLinuxOS -} Phoenix. End of an era, though (or something. That maintainer's latest version is two-steps-back, IMO).

Are my spectacles smudged, or did Mint's "lightweight" xfce distro ship with 230Mb worth of /icons ?
Is xfce really "lightweight" after you've loaded it's panels with various (launchers) TSR's? (no, it is not)
Surely we can put our heads together & decide best-of-breed, xfce-friendly apps for the next LiveCD & decide what all, what else, should be tweaked in the next distro.