Why do Windows users get such a bad rap?

[CtrlAltDel]

Sure, many of them are clueless and are just Mom's and Pop's and don't know hardly what a computer is but, the ones who know what they are doing are often more versed in computer related technology than most Linux users.

I get it, Windoze, etc... is the only way to properly mention Windows to be considered cool and in the Linux club but, why so much animosity? When I see someone type Windoze, I usually quit reading a post because I think they are idiots and vindictive just for the sake of being vindictive.

It's so childish and immature the way some of you react to Windows and Windows users and it makes you seem ignorant and almost backwards. The Windows users who know their stuff know more than just about any Linux user as far as being versed in computer science goes. I mean, Windows users are much more used to mucking around in registries and DOS, etc... and can get really technical and anal.

Take, for instance, Mark Russinovich, Mark Thurrott, etc..., those guys are deep and technical and they could probably outsmart any equivalent that Linux has to offer and there are lots of them like that in Windows.

Yeah, sure, the dummies like to use Windows but, the brains in Windows are much more accomplished, computer-wise, than the brains of Linux, or so it seems. I mean, some Windows guys are straight out freaking bots in their knowledge. I'm not so sure than any Linux users are like some of them, due to Linux being basically dumbed down.

I just find it ironic how some Linux users act like it's like its a LINUX RULE that they have to crap on Windows users whenever they make a post about anything. It's almost as if they are shallow and worried about something and they seem simplistic and kind of stupid.

Just for the record, I run only Linux Mint 13 Mate but, I just think the dolts who can't mention Windows without describing it as Windoze, etc... seem kind of like immature clowns. Isn't that kind of 1990's? When are Linux users going to forget about Windows and just worry about Linux? I mean, God, imagine how stupid Windows users would seem if they had to denigrate Linux EVERY SINGLE TIME they mentioned Linux, as if it was an unwritten rule to be able to be in the club. They would seem like obsessed and jealous fools or ignorant teenagers.

Why are so many Linux users absolutely obsessed with Windows? I can successfully and enjoyably use Linux without worrying too much about Windows or Windows users, just like they do us. Doesn't it make Linux users look small and kind of foolish to be so worried about Windows users; they certainly aren't worried about us like many of us are about them.

What exactly is the deal? To be extremely, extremely honest, many new users of Linux sound and ask questions like they are mentally affected so, I suppose they are just like new Windows users.

[Aging Technogeek]

Big +1

I feel exactly the same and have expressed my feelings several times on this forum in different topics. It does not do much good.

An OS, whether it is Linux, Windows, Apple OSX, BSD, Open Indiana (formerly Open Solaris), or any other one you can find, is just a big mass of binary numbers arranged to make it possible to use a computer easily. It is a tool, nothing more. You just choose the tool you are comfortable using and that will do the job you need it to do.

[wenchkin]

I really don't read "windoze" as an attack on windows users, but the OS itself. And if I'm honest, among my geeky friends, there are easily as many comments about linux as there are windows. I've personally called Gnome 3 and Unity far worse names than I've ever used on windows lol. I don't like or have any use or time for windows, but I won't be mean to a windows user unless they're mean first. If they can look at and use that OS, good luck to them. I never warmed to windows myself. I certainly have no time for Microsoft or plan to pay them any money again

I honestly pity windows users...paying money for it, not having the repos and applications we take for granted, needing to sit with driver discs at an install, adding in extra paid security software (yeah, I know there's free stuff, but a lot pay for that too). My parents have no linux experience yet, but my first job when I visit is apparently installing linux for them because even they don't find windows enjoyable and they want to try linux. They're barely savvy with using their PC and they don't like windows. Dad made a point of buying their latest system and asking the guy to ensure there was a partition for me to put said linux onto. I didn't tell him to, he asked the guy in the shop who set it up for him.

I tend to hear someone tell me windows is much better than linux and make a hasty exit from the conversation though. Some windows users feel the need to tell me how their OS is better... I know how much they paid for it and just smile sweetly. If they want to pay a lot more money for proprietary versions of software while I have everything I need for free, I don't need to attack them when they're already spending that money I can choose if I donate to developers or buy better hardware where before I spent a fair bit to keep up with windows and secure my system. I've actually conversed with developers of the software I use. How many windows users can say that? Linux users have so much more say and the option to get into the nuts and bolts of our software. I wouldn't use proprietary software if they paid me to now. I still get a rush when a developer asks me what I think about something or sends me links to some add-on or brush set. You're not just a consume with linux, you have a voice and you can contribute to projects you love.

I certainly don't agree that linux users are not as techy as windows ones. Many of us are capable in *both* rather than just one OS. I know several fully qualified IT techs who work with both OS too. I think that's the best way to be - know what to use and when. Not having that gripe about your OS being better than someone else's. I spent days working on windows and coming home to linux. I wonder how many windows users could flip between the two like many of us do. I'm not a particularly uber geek at all, I tend to learn what I need to know really. But I play with new distros constantly, umpteen different desktops, if needed I can still kick Windows into shape as required but I have no use for it anymore.

Wenchy

[/dev/urandom]

The Linux community generally seems to consider itself "the better IT people". Some blogs display a big fat warning "you use a non-free OS, please use Linux instead" when visited from a Windows version of Firefox. Windows users generally are more calm, more polite towards other OSs.

I started replying "Dumbuntu user" when someone calls me a "Windoze user". Funnily, though, they take it as an insult.

[water spirit]

When I see someone type Windoze, I usually quit reading a post because I think they are idiots and vindictive just for the sake of being vindictive.

+1

When I started visiting Linux Forums, to learn more about Linux, I could not relate to all the problems so many Linux users appeared to have in using Windows, I mean, to keep a Windows 7 install up and running like a fresh install is not difficult. I often thought that many of these people migrated to Linux because they were incompetent in the Windows environment.

[Diekan]

I can think of many reasons why Windows users get a bad rap.

First - they can be lazy. They know there is an alternative out there that will free them of viruses, malware, security breaches, and from the wallet draining software applications they are enslaved to. But, they won't take the time to research - they just know that someone told them that Linux was hard... why bother to do any actual research on your own?? Why are Linux users superior in this regard? Because the majority of today's computers do not ship with Linux. It has to be INSTALLED by the end user. This requires some work. It requires the end user to actually visit a Linux site, whether it be Ubuntu, Mint, Gentoo, whatever. Then it requires them to download (in 99% of the cases) to ISO - then BURN the ISO to a disk, then install the OS. Ergo, where most Windows users can't tell you the difference between a hard drive and a mouse - who think BIOS was a science class in college - the Linux user actually has some semblence of a clue. They have to get the blasted OS installed.

Secondly - they support a truly evil company. This [MS] was founded by who is essentially a theif. He stole ideas from Jobs and Xerox. He didn't whip Windows up on his own. The company as a whole is trash. They have oursourced thousands of jobs for no other reason than to gain a few points on their stock price. They have strong armed hardware manufacturers. They have tried to play the Justice system over and over. Yet, people still blindly support them. Windows users are like Walmart shoppers. Walmart is one of the worst violators of worker and civil rights in the WORLD. Yet, people still flood their stores day and night. They simply don't care that the employees are being forced to use welfare to survive while they're raking in BILLIONS in profit. Microsoft is no different. Destroying lives and corrupting the system for their gain. And, people still give them money - they don't care who is being hurt. They don't care that technology is being held back due to lack of genuine competition. As long as they can get Yahoo messenger can each other asshats - they're happy little sheep. Typical Windows user.

And no there is no excuse for the Windows users' technological stupidity. We live in a world where computers rule practically every aspect, every element of our lives and the VAST majority of the Microsoft Sheep can't spell CPU let alone know what it does. There is no excuse.

Third - they spend thousands of dollars years after year for software products that they have no idea what they're really getting. They could be buying NT 4.0 with new bells and whistles for all they know. Again, they don't care. As long as they can look up the winner on last season's American Idol.

Are Linux users superior (technologically speaking)? You're damn right they are. They refuse to support the quintisential evil empire of a company. They have the IQ to install their own OS and reach out for help as needed. They are savvy in saving thousands of dollars by looking for the open source alternative.

[/dev/urandom]

Can't tell if trolling or you just don't know better...

They know there is an alternative out there that will free them of viruses, malware, security breaches, and from the wallet draining software applications they are enslaved to.

There is no decent OS which has no viruses, malware, or security breaches.
(And I really can't see how the Ubuntu installer makes Ubuntu users smarter than Windows users. Clicking "Continue" is easy and requires not many computer skills.)

This [MS] was founded by who is essentially a theif. He stole ideas from Jobs and Xerox.

Jobs had no ideas. He did the marketing, but he did not do the tech part. (Xerox? Oh, yes, the company where Apple stole their ideas...)
If Apple was so much more visionary, why do they add features to every new OSX version which had been in Windows for years? Face it, Apple only takes old ideas and puts good marketing on them.

Oh, and if you generally hate non-original ideas, why do you use Linux? Linux, which is a clone of a clone of UNIX, instead of a real UNIX like FreeBSD? With a desktop environment that tries to imitate Windows (KDE, Cinnamon, fvwm, ...) or OSX (GNOME)? They're all thieves, according to your logic.

They have strong armed hardware manufacturers.

Not compared to your oh-so-visionary Apple. But hey, Apple is not evil, is it?

Third - they spend thousands of dollars years after year for software products that they have no idea what they're really getting.

How dare they!
Again, what about Apple users?

They could be buying NT 4.0 with new bells and whistles for all they know. Again, they don't care.

In case you missed it, everyone has a different need for what his computer is meant to do for him. Why should someone who just wants to surf the internet learn to use a different OS which can not make him surf the internet better anyway?

Are Linux users superior (technologically speaking)?

GIven that you are a typical Linux user, they are not superior at all. Please try to read about the very basics of what an operating system actually is.

They refuse to support the quintisential evil empire of a company.

Oh, so Canonical is a non-profit organization now? Sorry, didn't know that.

[Diekan]

Why are you.... a BSD user.... never mind. No it's not trolling. It's actually quite true. Never did I say I was an Apple supporter - I assume..... why are you here again? BSD... Linux Mint... anyway....

You're right - there is no OS that is absolute in being free from viruses...

On second thought after your first line comment you don't deserve a legit answer... disregard.

[/dev/urandom]

Why are you.... a BSD user.... never mind.

I am a Windows, Linux and BSD user because all of those OSs are superior in their own "market". In opposite to you I fully accept that there is no "best system".

No it's not trolling.

OK, so it's a lack of knowledge. Not your fault, young friend, but please, for the future, try to talk about things you know better.

Never did I say I was an Apple supporter

"Microsoft stole from Apple, Microsoft is sooo bad", well, Apple steals from Microsoft and you don't care. Even your beloved Linux is a rip-off of old, existing ideas, and you don't care either. Hypocrite or just blind? "Linux is sooo bad, they steal, all thieves!"

Oh, right, that is something completely different.
Please grow up.

On second thought after your first line comment you don't deserve a legit answer... disregard.

Nice try. I take it as "I understand I wrote stupid things but I will never admit that".

BTW, according to your posting I don't know what a hard drive is because I use Windows. Could you elaborate on that?

[Diekan]

You're an idiot - and I am not going to fall for your bait - nice try though.

[/dev/urandom]

Don't worry, no-one here expected you to actually think about why you were wrong. It was not meant to make you fall into anything, it was just a try to make you consider. A pity I failed!

Now I will never get to know why I am less smart than a Linux-only user.

(Hint: Don't troll if you can't take the echo.)

[Diekan]

Don't worry, no-one here expected you to actually think about why you were wrong. It was not meant to make you fall into anything, it was just a try to make you consider. A pity I failed!

Now I will never get to know why I am less smart than a Linux-only user.

(Hint: Don't troll if you can't take the echo.)

Hmmm interesting... here you are doing the same thing you've accused me of. You think you're smarter than me - it's quite obvious by your replies - something you've accused me of through my declaration of Linux users being more tech savvy than Windows users. Yet, you call ME a hypocrite. Shall I share the Webster's definition with you?

And, yet you come here to a LINUX form with an avatar like that you expect us not to look at you like a bias prick? Wake up call.....

[/dev/urandom]

No, I would be adequately contented if you could answer my questions.

[Diekan]

No, I would be adequately contented if you could answer my questions.

Ok, I'll play.

I worked IT for many, many years. I dealt with people who used Windows, Linux, and Apple. I started my career working in tech support. And, yes the Windows users were the biggest dumbasses of the bunch. I am sure you've heard of the Dell horror stories (Youtube, et al..) Well, yes I can support those stories. I actually had one person ask me why their "foot-controller" didn't work. No I am not making that up. This moron actually thought the mouse was a foot controller. Now, the Linux users I dealt with? They TAUGHT me a thing or two. I never had to explain to them what the "start menu" was.

I never said Apple was "innocent" of certain moral violations.... but the difference is that Apple makes their own products - they don't pressure hardware companies to only release drivers specific to their OS. MS does. And, you know it.

I never said Linux users were smarter than Windows users - I said they were more tech savvy... and they are. See above.

It's really hard to take you serious when you come to a LINUX site with an avatar like that. Really? You think you're scoring cool points or something?

And, yes Canonical is making money - as they should - people don't spend four years in college to earn degrees in Computer Science to work for free making Open Source products. But, there is a huge difference between Canonical and Microsoft. Do I really need to explain to you? Well, you're so much smarter than me, right? So, if I get it then you should too! Right?

Please explain to me again why you come to a Linux message board with an avatar like that... I'm all ears... errr eyes...

I have no fight with Apple. They make their own computers, they have their own "thing" going on. You either buy into it or you don't. That's a far cry from MS who has "introduced" this UEFI - BS (that's an achronym for that stuff that comes out of a cow's ass).

Let's take a moment to go back to one of your points. Can you imagine a Windows user trying to download an ISO image and then burning it to a disk? Right, I knew you could.

Are there Windows users who know more about computers than most Linux users? Of course. Absolutely, there are. But, they are far and few in between considering the average brainiach that uses "the computer' to check to see that their 400th friend on Facebook just gave back the Taco Bell they ate 6 hours earlier to the toilet.

[/dev/urandom]

I am sure you've heard of the Dell horor stories (Youtube, et al..) Well, yes I can support those stories.

I know such ones too. However, I even know Fedora users who are like that. PEBKAC is platform-independent.

I never had to explain to them what the "start menu" was.

That might be related to the fact that Linux does not have a start menu.
Actually I (as someone who has been using Windows since 1996) am pretty sure I could teach you things too. It all depends on how much effort users need to spend.
There are a couple of threads here which clearly state that the times of "RTFM" are over (also see this posting of mine), and Linux is "easier than Windows" today. Linux is not the "tech-savvy system" anymore. Wake up call...

they don't pressure hardware companies to only release drivers specific to their OS.

So how is Android running on an iPhone 4s? Not so well, right?

I never said Linux users were smarter than Windows users - I said they were more tech savvy...

Which might have been correct for Linux 0.x but is not anymore. Again my question: In a world of newbie-friendly Linux distributions where everything is reachable with a single click and no one has to work with text editors or the command line anymore, how does a system like this make people "more tech-savvy"?

People can do a lot with Linux. But they don't have to anymore.

It's really hard to take you serious when you come to a LINUX site with an avatar like that.

I was here before my avatar.

Really? You think you're scoring cool points or something?

No, I just like it.

But, there is a huge difference between Canonical and Microsoft. Do I really need to explain to you?

Yes, please. Which is it? Canonical makes money, Microsoft makes money.
One difference is that Canonical makes money with free software and Microsoft does not.

So why is Microsoft the evildoer here?

Please explain to me again why you come to a Linux message board with an avatar like that...

I have not come here with this avatar, it just grew a few weeks ago. Hey, doesn't it look funny? Tux's face!

Can you imagine a Windows user trying to download an ISO image and then burning it to a disk? Right, I knew you could.

Yep, since I do that rather often. Also, if they couldn't: How can they install Linux? So you have to be a tech-savvy Windows user in order to just get and install Linux on your system. Problem recognized.

But, they are far and few in between considering the average brainiach that uses "the computer' to check to see that their 400th friend on Facebook just gave back the Taco Bell they ate 6 hours earlier to the toilet.

How is that related to the operating system used? Facebook is pointless and stupid regardless of which OS you use for it.

I have a couple of Linux users in my circle of friends. Most of them - not even all of them! - know how to install software that did not come preinstalled, anything that goes further is too much for them. May be just me.



edit: Linked wrong thread and could not find the right one - rephrased.

[Fandangio]

Take, for instance, Mark Russinovich, Mark Thurrott, etc..., those guys are deep and technical and they could probably outsmart any equivalent that Linux has to offer and there are lots of them like that in Windows.

Yeah, sure, the dummies like to use Windows but, the brains in Windows are much more accomplished, computer-wise, than the brains of Linux

TROLL!

[Diekan]

I'm impressed with your reply!

Sure, there are Fedora users insomuch that yes... problem between keyboard and chair.... can create issues. Yes, it is platform dependent... but let's take a moment to look at the differences between problems. The Windows user can't figure out how to print while the Linux user is trying to figure out how to network their Mint desktop with their Gentoo latptop to print. Of course I am exaggerating a bit, but let's face it - the Linux user is going to have more of a clue about their computer than the average Windows user.

LOL toche - no start menu - correct, sir. I'll concede to you on that. But, yes, sure Linux is more user friendly now than before. But, the average Linux user knows they have to go to System Settings => Additional Drivers to activate the video driver (well, nvidia anyway) they need. The average Windows user doesn't know what a "driver" is. I don't know you, so *I* can't make assumptions about your intelligence. You very well could teach me a thing or two. I don't know you. How do you know I couldn't teach you a thing or two, as well - barring arrogance?

I actually like Androir and I like the iPhone 4s. They both have their good points and they both have their flaws. I am Droid user as it stands now. But, I wont lie and say I don't appreciate the format the iPhone offers. Again, I have no fight with Apple - they are doing their own thing - they aren't out trying to force themselves on the "world."

Which leads me to addressing your next point...

Why is MS "evil?" Well, let's take a moment to consider that....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

Remember MS fighting the DOJ?

"Early rounds of his deposition show him offering obfuscatory answers and saying 'I don't recall' so many times that even the presiding judge had to chuckle.

Let's dig deeper....

MS laid off 5000 workers (destroying how many families?) to grow their stock but a couple of points.

Oh, by the way... ONE of my Master's degrees is in business... and no company should ever act as Microsoft has and is currently.

What makes Linux better?

1. It's an open source product that allows ALL people to socially interact on a global scale - to gain information - to participate. It doesn't discriminate based on the ability to afford a virus prone POS piss poor excuse of an OS.

2. It's so secure (yes, I realize it's not perfect) that the US Navy has decided to drop MS completely and go to Linux to run their weapons systems.

3. Shall I go on?

Can you really sit there with a straight face and tell me that MS actually cares about their users? That they care about anything other than the bottom line?

The Mint Team, the Canonical team - Debian.... you're damn right they care what we think.. why? We are them. We are the "community" - and we all contribute in one way or another. WE, the community, is here for everyone regardless of age, status, gender, origin, religion... whether you live in the US, the UK, Africa, Russia, Japan.. it doesn't mater... we're a community that believes in standing up for something more than a little box that we can check email and play games on. THAT my friend is what "LINUX" is. And your GD right that makes us better than Windows.

Back to Canonical.. Sure, they are going to make money... why not? But, they are working hard - just like the Mint developers to provide the world with a functional operating system free of charge. But, as I said before - programmers have to eat too - so what's wrong with Canonical making money off their products and services? I don't see [them] out there trying to convince the DOJ that putting Windows based computers in every classroom in the United States is a way of paying the debt to society.

PS this post spell checked with Libre!

[/dev/urandom]

The Windows user can't figure out how to print while the Linux user is trying to figure out how to network their Mint desktop with their Gentoo latptop to print. Of course I am exaggerating a bit, but let's face it - the Linux user is going to more of a clue about their computer than the average Windows user.

Oh?

My mother knows how to print on Windows, but she does not have the tiniest clue of what a CUPS is. (Given that printer drivers are mostly Windows-only until someone ports them, printing is a very bad example IMNSHO.)

But, the average Linux user knows they have to go to System Settings => Additional Drivers to activate the driver (well, nvidia anyway) they need.

Given that "the average Linux user" knows what a driver is and uses GNOME and ...
I wonder where you take your definition of "average" from. Linux novices are told they don't need to know unicorns about anything related to tech anymore. Good luck telling them what a driver is and how they can find out which one they need.

The average Windows user doesn't know what a "driver" is.

Even my mother can imagine what a driver might be. And she is, well... not tech-savvy at all.

How do you know I couldn't teach you a thing or two, as well - barring arrogance?

Experiences, based on your weird POV of Windows and its users.

ONE of my Master's degrees is in business... and no company should ever act as Microsoft has and is currently.

Like: Economically? Fine.
Capitalism takes its victims. Sorry, but that's how business works. I thought you'd know.

Google is evil. Facebook is evil. Apple is evil.
Microsoft might have been evil in the 90s - but that was before Linux's peak.

1. It's an open source product that allows ALL people to socially interact on a global scale - to gain information - to participate.

Please learn the difference between "free" and "open". Replace "open source" by "free" and your point is valid. Anyway, Linux is not the only free OS out there. And people who can afford a computer usually get some Windows OEM license with it anyway - which quite blurs your point, right?

2. It's so secure (yes, I realize it's not perfect) that the US Navy has decided to drop MS completely and go to Linux to run their weapons systems.

Oh, right. Good reason to not use Linux for me.
Anyway: Linux is not secure. Linux is even more insecure than Windows, measured by the number of 0-day exploits per month.
(Do you remember that the US military even added backdoors to OpenBSD? And you really think Linux does not have them?)

3. Shall I go on?

Yes, please.

Can you really sit there with a straight face and tell me that MS actually cares about their users?

Microsoft is not a non-profit organization either. They care. If they would not care, no one would use their stuff anymore, right?

But, as I said before - programmers have to eat too - so what's wrong with Canonical making money off their products and services?

Nothing. (Canonical is arrogant and did not understand what made Linux so big IMO, but that's another point.)

PS this post spell checked with Libre!

I prefer brain.

[Oscar799]

Lively discussion is fine but this is descending into insults and personal attacks
Back off a little or this thread will be locked

[CtrlAltDel]

Take, for instance, Mark Russinovich, Mark Thurrott, etc..., those guys are deep and technical and they could probably outsmart any equivalent that Linux has to offer and there are lots of them like that in Windows.

Yeah, sure, the dummies like to use Windows but, the brains in Windows are much more accomplished, computer-wise, than the brains of Linux

TROLL!

That was uncalled for and rude. This is a friendly discussion; no need to be snotty as I haven't insulted anyone here.

I do find some of the ideas in this thread to be interesting though. One prevailing stereotype that seems to have really been bought into is that Windows users are, somehow, as human beings, more stupid than Linux users. This, frankly, says much more about the people who believe this than it does about users of Windows.

If 500 trillion users used Linux compared to 5,000 who use Windows, I wonder who would have the largest number of idiots as users. I bet the much, much, much, much larger number of Linux users would have much more Moms and Pops, more casual users who really don't care much about computers but to check email and look at Youtube, and, consequently, more of what the much smaller numbers of "hardcore" Windows users would call morons.

The guy who said he was in tech support and went on to explain how the Windows users were, by far, the most ignorant, probably never stopped to think that the overwhelming numbers of "regular" folk with jobs and lives and families and hobbies other than computers were most likely the Windows users.

I'd like to see a comparison of the core group of old time Dos users, back in the 80's, that lived by the command-line and used to be the weirdest, nerdiest, most anal and geeky individuals one could ever hope to see on Planet Earth, who progressed on into Windows compared to Linux users who have a similar experience with Linux.

What I am proposing, and I'm sure that most reasonable people would agree, is that there are most probably many more technologically advanced, computer wise, users of Windows due to the sheer numerological advantage that Windows users enjoy. That they don't call in to tech support is probably because they don't need to call tech support.

For example, if you have 2,000 Windows users on Planet Earth and only 2 Linux users on Planet Earth, which OS would have more users calling into tech support? Because the 2 Linux users know what they are doing and don't call while, let's say, 700 of the 2000 Windows users don't have a clue and constantly call tech support and ask why their coffee cup holder on their computer is broken, this doesn't mean that Linux users, overall, are more tech savvy than Windows users.

It merely means that there are going to be more clueless users of Windows because there are so many more of them. But, there are 50 times as many Windows users that know what they are doing than there are Linux users that know what they are doing.