Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Chat about just about anything else

Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby JAK on Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:28 pm

User avatar
JAK
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:42 am
Location: Central Florida

Linux Mint is funded by ads and donations.
 

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby Mattd4AX3 on Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:17 pm

Bill Gates has tounge-incheekly admitted several times Vista isn't as good as it should be, the security features failed, trouble with drivers, etc, etc.

I always buy windows for gaming, just recently started using Linux, it's far more advanced in security and eye-candy. But it lacks the instant ease of use that windows has, and that's what alot of users want, including myself.

Hopefully windows 7 will be done from the ground up, or closer to it than they've reached before, after all if you look at it from a distance, the only two major OS bases are Unix and Windows.
Custom-Built comp, Mint for desktop, Windows Vista for gaming, shared data partition for personal docs:
AMD x2 4200 2.2ghz
MSI 8600GTS stock OCed
Asus m2n-e mobo
2x1gb, 2x512mb=3gbs ddr2 800
Seagate 230gb drive
User avatar
Mattd4AX3
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:30 am
Location: NH,USA

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby Fred on Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:10 pm

Mattd4AX3 wrote:
I always buy windows for gaming, just recently started using Linux, it's far more advanced in security and eye-candy. But it lacks the instant ease of use that windows has, and that's what a lot of users want, including myself.


Please let me put forth another point of view. Most of the current "gotchas" in Linux are due to proprietary drivers and hardware specs that Microsoft continues to fight tooth and nail to prevent open source developers from having access to. Lets face it, they have a lot of influence over hardware manufacturers. This is slowly changing though.

Have you ever tried installing retail boxed Windows and associated software on random computers, both desk top and notebook? I suspect not. That would be a real eyeopener for you. I suspect that, "instant ease of use," would not be the phrase that would come to mind. :-)

There is a lot of work, teaks, etc. that go into a pre-installed version of Windows to make it work well with the hardware in a given PC.

A lot of what you call, "ease of use," is probably more accurately "familiarity." How long have you been using Windows? Was it as easy to use the first time you sat down at the keyboard as it is now? Example: What logic is there in the start button having to be clicked to shutdown the system? That is just one of many. :-)

You learned to use Windows, you can learn to use Linux. If you do make the effort, you will not only have freed yourself from Microsoft, but you will be able to use a much more powerful and flexible system. :-)

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.
User avatar
Fred
Level 10
Level 10
 
Posts: 3356
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:59 am
Location: NC USA

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby Mattd4AX3 on Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:08 am

Fred wrote:Mattd4AX3 wrote:
I always buy windows for gaming, just recently started using Linux, it's far more advanced in security and eye-candy. But it lacks the instant ease of use that windows has, and that's what a lot of users want, including myself.


Please let me put forth another point of view. Most of the current "gotchas" in Linux are due to proprietary drivers and hardware specs that Microsoft continues to fight tooth and nail to prevent open source developers from having access to. Lets face it, they have a lot of influence over hardware manufacturers. This is slowly changing though.

Have you ever tried installing retail boxed Windows and associated software on random computers, both desk top and notebook? I suspect not. That would be a real eyeopener for you. I suspect that, "instant ease of use," would not be the phrase that would come to mind. :-)

There is a lot of work, teaks, etc. that go into a pre-installed version of Windows to make it work well with the hardware in a given PC.

A lot of what you call, "ease of use," is probably more accurately "familiarity." How long have you been using Windows? Was it as easy to use the first time you sat down at the keyboard as it is now? Example: What logic is there in the start button having to be clicked to shutdown the system? That is just one of many. :-)

You learned to use Windows, you can learn to use Linux. If you do make the effort, you will not only have freed yourself from Microsoft, but you will be able to use a much more powerful and flexible system. :-)

Fred

Yea I'm trying, but asfar as ease of use in windows goes, you don't need a script to install a driver properly, which isn't linux's fault; it's just annoying >_>.

But I'm using mint until I know my way around then I'm gonna try more advanced distros, then hopefully I'll be able to help make distros myself/advance others :).
Custom-Built comp, Mint for desktop, Windows Vista for gaming, shared data partition for personal docs:
AMD x2 4200 2.2ghz
MSI 8600GTS stock OCed
Asus m2n-e mobo
2x1gb, 2x512mb=3gbs ddr2 800
Seagate 230gb drive
User avatar
Mattd4AX3
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:30 am
Location: NH,USA

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby JAK on Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:26 am

Mattd4AX3 wrote:Bill Gates has tounge-incheekly admitted several times Vista isn't as good as it should be, the security features failed, trouble with drivers, etc, etc.

I always buy windows for gaming, just recently started using Linux, it's far more advanced in security and eye-candy. But it lacks the instant ease of use that windows has, and that's what alot of users want, including myself.

Hopefully windows 7 will be done from the ground up, or closer to it than they've reached before, after all if you look at it from a distance, the only two major OS bases are Unix and Windows.


Linux as an OS is as easy to crawl around in features as Windows but much more configurable. However, there is a lack of GUI programs, "ease of use", that still bothers me as well. This is not the blame of Linux, this is the blame of all those talented programmers out there just not delivering on the "ease of use" programs. I wish I had gone into programming back in the early 80's rather than engineering :cry: Don't get me wrong, there is a plethora of very nice Linux programs out there, just not some of the ones I need to be able to completely dump Windows.

If M$ had any brains whatsoever (and I know they don't because Vista is a clear indication of this), they would as you say build Windows from the ground up, only they should use Linux as their base. Unfortunately, all those nifty Windows programs out there would be nearly useless and we'd be back to square one with Linux as we are now.... lacking those nifty programs. You can chase your tail on this topic.

I still consider myself a bit a newbie to Linux, but I'm starting to find I can get around much better these days. At this point I am using Linux about 98% of the time (at home) since nobody can seem to get iTunes to work under Linux (for purchases), and maybe a couple of other uses I can't think of right now. I am not a gamer, so that removes a huge need for Windows right there.
.
User avatar
JAK
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:42 am
Location: Central Florida

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby JAK on Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:05 am

There is a lot of work, teaks, etc. that go into a pre-installed version of Windows to make it work well with the hardware in a given PC.

A lot of what you call, "ease of use," is probably more accurately "familiarity." How long have you been using Windows? Was it as easy to use the first time you sat down at the keyboard as it is now? Example: What logic is there in the start button having to be clicked to shutdown the system? That is just one of many. :-)

You learned to use Windows, you can learn to use Linux. If you do make the effort, you will not only have freed yourself from Microsoft, but you will be able to use a much more powerful and flexible system. :-)


I can agree with you only a little bit on this Fred. While "familiarity" is a factor, most people can get over that in a short period of time if switching to Linux. I have had similar discussions in the past with you on this point but I will not bend on the fact that people want easy to use, "point and click" programs. While I am not taking away your valid point of getting around the command line easy with a little practice, most people don't want to bother trying to remember command-line syntax. I know I can't always remember all the options and parameters of each command-line program, can you? And text edited configuration files is so 1970's.

I love using Linux, it is my main OS now (Mint of course), but as I've mentioned previously, there are still too many Windows programs that don't have a viable Linux alternative for many people, including myself. As an OS, I don't hate Windows, there is no point in doing that. I do not agree with the M$ business practices, but that doesn't make Windows useless. I like OSX as well. I think it's a very nicely presented desktop, I just don't have that kind of extra cash on hand to shell out for something that so very close to Linux. My current desktop has the OSX taskbar (awn-manager) at the bottom of the screen which is very nice, and I use the MintMenu in the upper left corner to access some of the less accessed programs. It's the best of both worlds and does not get much better than that..... except for the lack of certain GUI programs :D

Last year I bought a laptop for my daughter to take to college. It had Vista loaded of course, so I played around with it for what could not have been more than 30 minutes. I got frustrated at how most of the configuration options had been moved around to illogical places and broken up into separate commands instead of being tabbed options of one configuration dialog box as in XP. Since I expected to have to do a bit of remote assistance from 150 miles away, I decided to format the drive and load XP, because I know where everything is in XP. I took the long road getting to my point, but here it is; Vista is different enough from XP that switching to Linux would not be a huge leap of having to learn a different OS anyway.
.
User avatar
JAK
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:42 am
Location: Central Florida

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby newW2 on Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:14 am

I saw the comment regarding itunes. I haven't tried but have run across itunes at wineHQ. There's a post that claims "as of wine 0.9.57 the itunes music store seems to work"

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.p ... n&iId=1347
User avatar
newW2
Level 6
Level 6
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:24 am
Location: USA

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby JAK on Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:19 am

newW2 wrote:I saw the comment regarding itunes. I haven't tried but have run across itunes at wineHQ. There's a post that claims "as of wine 0.9.57 the itunes music store seems to work"

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.p ... n&iId=1347


Thanks for the link, I gave it a shot. iTunes seemed to install fine, but having it actually work must be an entirely different task. :(
It used to be that the install was a bit of a task. At least they are a step closer. Quite likely there is a conflict with something I already have running. Time for a little investigating.

* UPDATE *
I tried running iTunes with a blank OpenBox install and still it's a no-go. It would be nice if there was more information on how to tweak the settings. It seems like it's hit or miss one some computers.
.
User avatar
JAK
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:42 am
Location: Central Florida

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby Fred on Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:02 pm

JAK,

Even though I continue to think my points are valid, I do concede that you too have some valid points also. We just see it from two different perspectives. :-)

If there was room for only one opinion on a given subject, this would be such a boring world to live in. Don't you think?

Enjoy life, it's too short to do otherwise. :-)

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.
User avatar
Fred
Level 10
Level 10
 
Posts: 3356
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:59 am
Location: NC USA

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby JAK on Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:26 pm

Fred wrote:Even though I continue to think my points are valid, I do concede that you too have some valid points also. We just see it from two different perspectives. :-)

If there was room for only one opinion on a given subject, this would be such a boring world to live in. Don't you think?


Absolutely! What fun would it be if everyone agreed on everything?
Well, I've been trying for hours to get iTunes to run under Wine and at this point, I will live with the minor inconvenience of switching to my Windows box to download from iTunes. No big deal.

I ended up having to uninstall and reinstall Wine 3 times but still no luck with it. Quite likely Apple is purposely making it difficult for Linux users to run iTunes. They must be taking lessons from Microsoft.
User avatar
JAK
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:42 am
Location: Central Florida

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby newW2 on Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:36 pm

I failed as well my friend. I really have no need to for iTunes, but when I get a hair for it, I'll just run it in MS inside a cage called VMWare or Virtual Box. When I'm done with the selfish little buggers, I close the cage door. :~)
User avatar
newW2
Level 6
Level 6
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:24 am
Location: USA

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby Fred on Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:17 pm

lol.... I love the way you put that newW2. Nice turn of a phrase. :-)

Got one for you JAK. A survey of licensed drivers asked why cars should have good brakes. 87% answered, "to be able to stop reliably." The same question was asked to a group of race car drivers. 93% answered, "so I can go faster."

Isn't life grand! :-)

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.
User avatar
Fred
Level 10
Level 10
 
Posts: 3356
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:59 am
Location: NC USA

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby BAD on Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:11 pm

RE: FRED Isn't life grand

NO!

Life is like a box of MS software
We are the LinuxMint. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
User avatar
BAD
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:55 am

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby Fred on Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:26 pm

BAD,

lol... I hope my life hasn't been reduced to that. :-)

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.
User avatar
Fred
Level 10
Level 10
 
Posts: 3356
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:59 am
Location: NC USA

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby newW2 on Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:31 am

Maybe he means the final four outcome from today. NC lost to Kansas? I don't follow sports, but I thought that NC was favored to go all the way?
User avatar
newW2
Level 6
Level 6
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:24 am
Location: USA

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby sundayrefugee on Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:13 am

I find this fascinating. Video driver installation is considered "easy" on Windows. You have to figure out which chipset you have, find the manufacturer's website, navigate it, enter in your information correctly, accept a EULA, hope you got the right one, download, install (next, next, next, next, next, next, next, next, ok, finish), and reboot.

In Linux Mint, you either A) Click "OK" in restricted manager, and reboot, or B) clarify to Envy wether you have an ATI card or an Nvidia card, and reboot.

And Linux is the more difficult?

Even in other distros, it's no more complicated than opening the default package manager, clicking "Nvidia", and clicking "OK".

Honestly, how often does anyone *have* to use the CLI anymore? Now, I'm a CLI junkie. I prefer it whenever possible. But I've installed several different distros for family members and freinds, from Mint, Ubuntu, Mepis, to PCLOS, and almost none of them would know what a CLI was if their children's lives were in danger. I think the CLI argument is vastly overstated in modern Linux.

Although the CLI does pwn :twisted:

Mostly, I see this type of argument (not saying *this* one is necessarily the case) from the "I installed Linux and it's not behaving *precisely* like Microsoft WIndows" people ;-)
sundayrefugee
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:37 am

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby lancern on Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:26 am

This video will make you not ever want to use vista :oops:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MfFjlF_BkM

:shock:
lancern
Level 2
Level 2
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:15 am

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby Mattd4AX3 on Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:39 am

lancern wrote:This video will make you not ever want to use vista :oops:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MfFjlF_BkM

:shock:

I remember reading MS made that bad on purpose so they could leak it and get a laugh XD.
Last edited by Mattd4AX3 on Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Custom-Built comp, Mint for desktop, Windows Vista for gaming, shared data partition for personal docs:
AMD x2 4200 2.2ghz
MSI 8600GTS stock OCed
Asus m2n-e mobo
2x1gb, 2x512mb=3gbs ddr2 800
Seagate 230gb drive
User avatar
Mattd4AX3
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:30 am
Location: NH,USA

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby Ookami on Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:01 am

He said new versions of Windows would help revolutionize mobile phones and run the desk of the future, which would have a touch surface display allowing users to call up items using their hands.


Using their hands?! What preposterousness!
Image
User avatar
Ookami
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:54 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Even Bill Gates has given up on Vista

Postby humptydumpty on Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:24 pm

I recently had cause to phone MacroHard on behalf of a private client, concerning his attempts to re-register an OEM version of V---a (can't bring my self to type the full word), after a hardware failure on a lap-top PC. When I commented to the MacroHard person about the draconian licence conditions with their new V---a and the very real benefits of Linux, I received a most surprising answer - "yes I agree, Linux is very good and stable". I nearly fell off my chair!

The Dell PC in question now runs very much faster than it ever did before. What else would one expect after installing Mint Daryna, which also picked up all the hardware and wireless device, first time.

So others seem to have given up on V---a, as well as William!

Lord Humpers of the Dumpty.
User avatar
humptydumpty
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:10 am

Linux Mint is funded by ads and donations.
 
Next

Return to Open chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests