Wiki.. Yes/No?

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Wiki.. Yes/No?

Postby Hjess on Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:13 am

Hi.

Is it only me that have a intense hate for wiki? - sure its nice for people to edit pages etc, but damm it hard to find information.

I really misses the old days with news servers - easy to navigate, fast to find information - but NNTP is dead?

Back to the question ...

Is it a great way for (ie Mint) to spread howto's etc the wiki way? - or is it better with a forum, or just a CMS with a version control on information.

What do you want if you could choose ?

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Re: Wiki.. Yes/No?

Postby ed@Mint on Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:42 am

Oh i didn't know you hate wikis. You didn't tell me that on IRC :wink:
Anyway, we've had a discussion about this here

My view is that wikis are the way to go to put documentation for a Linux community driven distro.
Concerning the 'difficulty' to find information, it only depends on how you organize it :wink:
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Re: Wiki.. Yes/No?

Postby Hjess on Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:15 am

Hallo ;-)

Well.. I miss alot of basic stuff.

Navigation? .. just for a start.

Then there is the style issue.

What I define as a good page would be something like
http://www.fedorafaq.org/

For discussion - I think a forum is a bad idea! or at least it should be modified. I really hate that there are no threads - a discussion/debate often ends up in a mix of .. confusion. - The way to do it is like this http://drupal.org/node/223614 :D

Just remember this is just point of view, i deeply respect the choice of CMS/Wiki for mint ;-) - As long I'm not working whit it.

/~ HJess
"Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent." - Friedrich Nietzsche
"No notice is taken of a little evil, but when it increases it strikes the eye." - Aristotle
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Re: Wiki.. Yes/No?

Postby Jernau on Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:45 am

Hjess wrote:Well.. I miss alot of basic stuff. Navigation? .. just for a start. Then there is the style issue.

In my opinion, the 'search and hyperlink' navigation paradigm that Wikis use is an excellent way to traverse large collections of information. In fact, I have yet to see a better approach to navigating large data sets. However, I would definitely be interested to hear about any examples you have of better approaches.

On the style issue; every Wiki engine I have used (MediaWiki, PmWiki, TWiki, etc.) has a unique style - so I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean when you say that in general Wiki's have a 'style issue'?

Hjess wrote:What I define as a good page would be something like
http://www.fedorafaq.org/

That's certainly a nice FAQ page, however an FAQ isn't the limit of the goals of the Linux Mint documentation project. With more information, comes the need for better display and navigation techniques (such as a Wiki or CMS).

Hjess wrote:For discussion - I think a forum is a bad idea! or at least it should be modified. I really hate that there are no threads - a discussion/debate often ends up in a mix of .. confusion. - The way to do it is like this http://drupal.org/node/223614 :D

The first thing that I do when I come across a forum that has tree-based threads (like in your example) is to switch it to a flat view. So it's clear that this is a personal taste issue. Though I must say that everyone I've talked to about this (granted not a large test group ;)) prefers the flat view, and it's my guess that if you polled Linux Mint users then it would be a landslide victory for the flat view.

Hjess wrote:Just remember this is just point of view, i deeply respect the choice of CMS/Wiki for mint ;-) - As long I'm not working whit it.

It is of course your choice not to get involved because you think that the wrong tools have been selected, but if you would like to convince other people that this is actually the case then you may need to come up with stronger arguments than you have presented thus far.
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Re: Wiki.. Yes/No?

Postby Hjess on Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:43 am

[---SNiP 'Couse it was getting confusing---]

I agree with you that the wiki is good at data sheets. BUT! - when you are dealing with HOWTO's and similar it really think the wiki is a bad approach.

At my point of view its better to have a document with version control. Like "my howto version 1" fits - and the receive update/notes and releases updated documents.

Its great to have a wiki, but what if a "old" user need old information? - then the wiki fails because its all new! - and if you are very lucky some are new and some are old. - Where is the review ? (And honestly who would like to make a rewrite of a complete wiki?)

I'm not here to convince other people that the choice of is wrong (Thats up to one individual) - but I've far rather listen to other experience with wikis - and online documentation handling.

I've will poste some links regaring tree view.

/~HJess
"Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent." - Friedrich Nietzsche
"No notice is taken of a little evil, but when it increases it strikes the eye." - Aristotle
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Re: Wiki.. Yes/No?

Postby ed@Mint on Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:16 pm

HJess wrote:Its great to have a wiki, but what if a "old" user need old information? - then the wiki fails because its all new!

There is always the ability to make different sections for different versions of Mint. Or at least keep the old tricks when you know that the newer stuff won't work on other versions.
Wikis are flexible, you can make what you want out of them. :wink:

Hjess wrote:And honestly who would like to make a rewrite of a complete wiki?

That is why we want to set up a documentation team.

Anyway, i'll keep an interested eye on your website.
As we said when we talked about it, we'll apparently have the best of both worlds. :wink:
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Re: Wiki.. Yes/No?

Postby Hjess on Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:07 pm

Hi Ed!

Great to know ! - an off course I will be supporting mint in all off my efforts. This is why I'm doing it ;-)

Didt this dicussion went a bit offtopic ;-) ..


Wiki - God/Bad? - And why?

Pro and cons for wiki - and is there any better alternatives ?


/~HJess
"Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent." - Friedrich Nietzsche
"No notice is taken of a little evil, but when it increases it strikes the eye." - Aristotle
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Re: Wiki.. Yes/No?

Postby Ookami on Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:16 pm

My multiforums host equipped us with a mediawiki installation.
I haven't found a particular use for it quite just yet, but I'm working on it.

I don't have a problem with it, at all, I treat it like I treat anything else. If you close your eyes, you can pretend it isn't there.
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Re: Wiki.. Yes/No?

Postby CYYC on Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:46 am

No and Yes :)

I find wiki’s a bit too formal for Q & A’s , I like the idea of them for technical manuals and online textbooks (lets dump paper already!). I migrated to web based forums from nntp based news groups, so I like that community feel, and every forum has a different feel – every wiki feels the same (to me anyway).

i find comfort in knowing other people out there are having the same problems as me or joy for that matter.
a wiki feels rigid when i have a problem, and there's no place to shout out joy (it gets del, i have tried it) hehe. :)
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