Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

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Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby Beyondo on Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:59 pm

I've been a software engineer for 20 years and have always used emacs exclusively on Unix and Linux. I hate vi and only launch it by accident. It's upsetting to see that the Live DVD for Linux Mint (version 14 tested) doesn't have emacs installed...but it does have an MP4 player and Firefox. Emacs is absolutely critical and other stuff should be dumped before emacs if it's a space problem.

Now I have go through the arduous process of remastering the Live DVD to get one with emacs installed (and it appears the primary tool for this was removed because the authors are afraid of "fake" Live DVDs being produced).
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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby killer de bug on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:03 am

Linux Mint is for newbies. So installing Emacs is not a primary goal, on the contrary a mp4 player is interesting. You can take Emacs from the repo in 2 secondes so I don't see the point in complaining. If everyone complains about a missing software we will need 8 DVD iso...

By the way the team is not afraid of 'fake' Linux Mint iso. The team just don't want bad quality iso with the brand Linux Mint on it. There is a difference, if you read carefully you will notice it.
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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby wanderer7 on Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:41 pm

LM doesn't come with vi either. :wink: I haven't tried LM17 yet, but 15 and 16 came with gedit (and nano), which is easier to use than either emacs or vi.
For an experienced developer it's easy to uninstall or install any software.
...but it does have an MP4 player and Firefox. Emacs is absolutely critical and other stuff should be dumped before emacs if it's a space problem.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
I know emacs is almost like an OS, but can you really imagine dumping a web-browser in a distro which is intended for new GNU/Linux users?!
By the way, I like emacs too. :)
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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby scryan on Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:00 pm

Beyondo wrote:I've been a software engineer for 20 years and have always used emacs exclusively on Unix and Linux. I hate vi and only launch it by accident. It's upsetting to see that the Live DVD for Linux Mint (version 14 tested) doesn't have emacs installed...but it does have an MP4 player and Firefox. Emacs is absolutely critical and other stuff should be dumped before emacs if it's a space problem.

Now I have go through the arduous process of remastering the Live DVD to get one with emacs installed (and it appears the primary tool for this was removed because the authors are afraid of "fake" Live DVDs being produced).

Hate to break it to you, but emacs is in no way absolutely critical, and for 90% of people missing a music player and web browser would be a MUCH MUCH bigger deal. (lol, 90%... more like 99%.... 90% is probably more like the people who have never touched emacs...)

No offense to you, OR mint... But if you have 20 years as a software engineer in linux.... Why are you using a distribution aimed at casual and new users, and especially why are you trying to use it when it doesn't fit your needs?
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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby DrHu on Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:45 pm

It's simple..
--Mint and any other Linux distribution is not custom built for any specific user, so we all have to adjust the installed OS to match our own preferences; whether file manager or desktop style, music/media player or other choices..
  • Any application that you prefer not to have installed can be removed
  • Any application you prefer to have installed can be added
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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby /dev/urandom on Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:06 am

killer de bug wrote:Linux Mint is for newbies.


Yup, only newbies would use the Dumbuntu spin. LMDE, though ... :)

wanderer7 wrote:LM doesn't come with vi either. :wink:


OK, that's new (as Vim is one of the first things I usually install when I'm forced to work with Linux). Why is the LM team breaking POSIX compatibility?

By the way: The new, upcoming "Atom" shooting star editor is 69 MB on Windows. Emacs has 47... :mrgreen:
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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby wanderer7 on Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:40 am

/dev/urandom wrote:By the way: The new, upcoming "Atom" shooting star editor is 69 MB on Windows. Emacs has 47... :mrgreen:


I wouldn't use Atom, it sends usage data to Google Analytics. :evil: If I had to work on windows, I'd still use gedit or Emacs, or maybe notepad++.
vi isn't preinstalled, that's what I wanted to say in my previous post. Of course you can install it, if you want to. You use vi in BSD, right? :)
Anyway, gedit or kate + nano is more than enough for non-programmers, and LM comes with way better text editors than windows.
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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby /dev/urandom on Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:20 am

wanderer7 wrote:vi isn't preinstalled, that's what I wanted to say in my previous post. Of course you can install it, if you want to. You use vi in BSD, right? :)


Again, why is the LM team breaking POSIX compatibility?

I use vi, nano and Emacs on various BSD machines, depending on what I do.
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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby killer de bug on Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:31 am

/dev/urandom wrote:Again, why is the LM team breaking POSIX compatibility?


Where is it written that vi should be installed to be POSIX compliant?
Where is it written that Mint want to be POSIX compliant?
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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby /dev/urandom on Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:57 am

The POSIX standard states that the vi command has to work.

Why wouldn't it?
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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby killer de bug on Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:26 am

/dev/urandom wrote:The POSIX standard states that the vi command has to work.

Why wouldn't it?

Do you have a link? I read it this morning and I did not find anything relative to vi. Could you please help me?


This utility shall be provided on systems that both support the User Portability Utilities option and define the POSIX2_CHAR_TERM symbol. On other systems it is optional.

http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/96 ... es/vi.html
Last edited by killer de bug on Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby /dev/urandom on Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:29 am

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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby killer de bug on Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:32 am

Yeah we have the same link... I still don't see where it's written mandatory :)

This said, vi(m) is installed by default in LMDE. I don't know for sure for the main edition of Linux Mint.
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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby /dev/urandom on Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:36 am

Depends. Does LM support POSIX at all? Hence my question.

clem?
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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby wanderer7 on Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:14 pm

killer de bug wrote:This said, vi(m) is installed by default in LMDE. I don't know for sure for the main edition of Linux Mint.


:shock:
Now, this is the moment when I think my memory has stopped working correctly. If what you wrote is true and I believe it is, then I'm totally wrong and vi is installed in Mint. :o
But why do I remember that I had to install it then? And I'm talking about vi, not vim. :?
OK, if vi is pre installed in the main edition of Mint too, then I apologize guys - I was wrong. :cry:
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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby killer de bug on Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:48 pm

wanderer7 wrote: :shock:
Now, this is the moment when I think my memory has stopped working correctly. If what you wrote is true and I believe it is, then I'm totally wrong and vi is installed in Mint. :o
But why do I remember that I had to install it then? And I'm talking about vi, not vim. :?
OK, if vi is pre installed in the main edition of Mint too, then I apologize guys - I was wrong. :cry:


When I type vi in a terminal, vim is launching. But I don't know if you will accept vim as vi :mrgreen:


Code: Select all
vim-tiny:
  Installé : 2:7.4.052-1
  Candidat : 2:7.4.052-1
 Table de version :
 *** 2:7.4.052-1 0
        500 http://mirror.rts-informatique.fr/linuxmint/debian/incoming/ testing/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby wanderer7 on Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:27 pm

killer de bug wrote:When I type vi in a terminal, vim is launching. But I don't know if you will accept vim as vi :mrgreen:


I don't have a choice, I have to accept. :mrgreen:
And this makes it POSIX compliant - command vi works in terminal.
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Postby SMarais on Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:24 am

I don't like emacs nor vi nor vim nor nano.
I don't find anything interesting in all these editors. But why complaining about something you can easily install?
Even if your computer doesn't have an internet connection you still can put the deb on an USB stick for a later install.
I don't want to have such editor installed by default.
I have LM Running on all these computers
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Re: Upset that emacs is missing from live dvd

Postby xenopeek on Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:58 am

This topic isn't going anywhere and I think all that needed to be said was said. Locked. Group hug and move on.
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