Some FUD I found.

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Some FUD I found.

Postby optimize me on Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:16 am

I found this linked on one of my regular news sites. It should provide some interesting reading:
http://quaoar.ww7.be/ms_fud_of_the_year ... bably.html
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby markcynt on Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:48 am

At 1st I was shocked, then I thought it was funny. :lol:
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby Wamukota on Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:16 am

Gee... and do people really believe that ??

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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby ell02 on Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:21 am

Sad isn't it.But not shocking as the corporation i work for lie's all the time.
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby exploder on Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:08 am

Looks like a typical Microsoft tactic.
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby FedoraRefugee on Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:51 am

This is great guys! Dont you see it? I have heard many Linux fanboys poo-poo netbooks and claim that it isnt a big market sector...This shows that MS is indeed noticing little ole Linux!!! The big marketing wheels are rolling. I cant say much in that was FUD, there is actually a lot of truth to MS's claims. :( Some of it was misconstrued such as WOW not being able to run in Linux. Well, okay, but it runs in Wine. The part about security? That was actually funny! But overall MS has some great points and I honestly feel Windows 7 is the best bet for most people. I am sorry that will upset many of you. Linux was never about ruling the world, it is about freedom. Most people just do not care about "freedom" in their OS. They just want things to work. Am I saying Win 7 is "better" than Linux? No, not at all! Just that it is a better choice for most.

Fear not, those that show an interest in Linux will experience it and many will decide that it is a great alternative to the evil empire. Great! Most will play around with a distro for an afternoon not understanding the first thing about what they are doing and will leave in disgust after 2-3 hours, usually posting a "linux is not ready" thread in whatever forum first. Life goes on. Linux gets better by the day. Distros like Mint make it possible for anyone to join our brotherhood. Linux is out there and it is a force.
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby adrianx on Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:27 pm

There's no guarantee that when security vulnerabilities are discovered, an update will be created. Users are on their own.

In Windows, there is no guarantee that a vulnerability will be revealed or patched in a timely fashion. Crackers just love the Wednesday that follows "Patch Tuesday".... it gives them at least a month to play.

There is no ability to set parental restrictions.

That's just an outright lie.
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby DrHu on Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:45 pm

It is just more FUD, albeit in their new guise..
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=670
http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News ... -netbooks/
    At this week's OpenSource World, a Dell executive reportedly said the company's Linux netbook returns are roughly equivalent to those for Windows-based netbooks. The remarks were in response to Microsoft's COO Kevin Turner, who gave a recent speech claiming Linux netbook returns were four or five times higher.

I'll just assume he/she lied and got the 100% pass mark, by saying Yes to everything windows and No/Maybe to everything Linux..
The funniest part in the link for best buy dealer talking points; was the tick mark battle that Microsoft windows xx (7 ) had more software compatibility than Linux by that wide margin

Since Microsoft fights tooth and nail against any and all compatible software from OpenOffice to interconnected systems: requiring Linux to have the need for Samba to connect to a Microsoft-centric network, preventing easy Exchange (email) server connections
--perhaps they are just being more delusional than usual, or it is their normal state of delusion

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS2045641099.html
Now if they can just keep their customers as blind as they be!. well then they have absolutely nothing to worry about from governments, business or competitors ; or any other sheep-herds (and their shepherds)

FedoraRefugee wrote:This is great guys! Dont you see it? I have heard many Linux fanboys poo-poo netbooks and claim that it isnt a big market sector...This shows that MS is indeed noticing little ole Linux!!! The big marketing wheels are rolling. I cant say much in that was FUD, there is actually a lot of truth to MS's claims

Well that's how advertising works, there is a kernel of fact(truth?), but that fact might be a real (actual) fact or a made-up fact (myth); all of which makes no difference to the advertiser
--as they are just telling the facts( as they see them from their own self-interested sales pitch..)

Other facts (real or mythical), let the buyer decide..
http://www.tuxradar.com/content/linux-vs-windows-7
http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article ... ows_client
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2009/05/14 ... advantage/
http://www.thevarguy.com/2009/07/02/us- ... tes-linux/

FedoraRefugee wrote:Most people just do not care about "freedom" in their OS. They just want things to work. Am I saying Win 7 is "better" than Linux? No, not at all! Just that it is a better choice for most.

..Just that it is a better choice for most.
Who knows, you can't depend on the advertiser to tell you the truth/facts
--and it is also a forced choice, like the cable company and others using negative billing,where you have to opt out in order to get a choice..
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby rich_roast on Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:10 am

Oh, man, this gets better. I couldn't believe that this was real (as a folklorist and snopes fan I could smell the faint odor of rat...), but then I went to Microsoft's Expert Zone and was convinced otherwise. Their marketing really is this heavy handed. And bad. Morbidly, hilariously, successfully bad.

I had a gander at their sample training materials. Seriously, you have to try it. I picked the "Sample Course" option. The hilarity begins with the opening picture, with the businessman doing the splits in midair and the dog joining in the learning experience. It gets better as you proceed. I could only stand it for about ten minutes... the course they're plugging goes on for 40 hours! :shock:

I don't know whether to weep or cry. But if I ever needed to find inspiration for a Cracked.com article, this is it.

EDIT: Oops, telling mistake there. I meant, of course, laugh or cry.
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby Wamukota on Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:47 am

Microsoft is not interested at all in Linux users.
Proof?

Well, Suppose I am running whatever Linux distro and I want to take the plunge with Windows 7. But is my hardware fit for Win7 ?
So I go to http://www.microsoft.com/windows/window ... visor.aspx
There I find a program that will check my hardware, and I will run it...
Ow, only Windows users are capable of running it, because the program is not web-based, but is is a win32 exe file.

Sorry MS, next time maybe :lol:
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby rich_roast on Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:31 pm

Ow, only Windows users are capable of running it, because the program is not web-based, but is is a win32 exe file.



It occurs to me that this might be because in the battle for hearts and minds MS is vaguely aware that when they lose a customer it's a permanent arrangement (for reasons I would have thought should be obvious by now :wink: ), so there is no reason for them to try and market to these customers any more. Note how all of the FUD here is bona fide FUD - aimed at preventing present customers from leaving rather than attempting to attract any back.
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby Zwopper on Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:09 pm

Microsoft wrote:Does my ass look fat in this FUD?! :shock:

:roll:
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby FedoraRefugee on Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:24 pm

rich_roast wrote:It occurs to me that this might be because in the battle for hearts and minds MS is vaguely aware that when they lose a customer it's a permanent arrangement (for reasons I would have thought should be obvious by now :wink: ), so there is no reason for them to try and market to these customers any more. Note how all of the FUD here is bona fide FUD - aimed at preventing present customers from leaving rather than attempting to attract any back.


Just be careful you dont become guilty of the same thing you accuse MS of. :) I suppose you can back this statement up? You can prove this? Or is it just "Linux spin?"

I dont know why I am answering this, I have already said my piece in here. I do not consider myself to be on either "side," in fact I dont see any reason why there needs to be a side. MS is trying to advertise their product, trying to show why Windows is the better choice. Some of what they claim holds merit, much does not. This is just advertising, as DrHu mentions. What holds true for me may not hold true for you. I like the taste of Coke better than Pepsi. If Linux were a commercial entity, which it is not, at least not in the form of desktop Linux, do you not think they would spin their advertisement also, explaining why Linux is a better choice than MS? In fact, one only has to read the FUD about Windows in any Linux forum to see this!!! It is no better, in fact it is usually much worse, than anything MS claimed.

But the bottom line here is why do you even care? Are you afraid MS might beat out Linux in the OS market? :lol: I mean, do you honestly think Linux ever stands a chance of taking over from MS? Why cant Linux users just be content with using their OS, why do they feel the need to save the world? Save it from what? Get it through your heads, people dont care about Linux! They dont want to hear about it, they think that because it is free it sucks. And really, trying to get involved in it with no knowledge it does suck!!! Why would anyone bother to learn how to use it when Windows came on the computer, everyone else uses Windows, all their software and any software they are likely to buy runs on Windows, any peripheral out there is designed to run on Windows, and anytime they need help they can get it professionally. Why would a "normal" person want to spend time dicking around with drivers trying to get their printer to print or their wifi to work? Why would they want to spend time trying to figure out Wine to get their favorite game to work? Most Linux distros are buggy at best, that is unless you go with a "stable" distro that is so dated it will bring you to tears. Mint is probably the least buggy out of all of them and a quick look through this forum will tell you it is no walk in the park either. Most of you "Linux evangelists" who want to save the world could not even make a real distro work! Go ahead and try running Fedora or Slackware or Gentoo, Arch, even installing debian. This is why most people dont care about Linux. They just want to use their computers, they dont want to have to become experts. I will grant you that Mint mostly does work and is easy enough for anyone. But the point still stands, why bother?

So why am I getting so wound up here? Am I just another Windows fanboy? I dont believe so, I have paid my dues. I have used Linux for 10 years now. I was MS free for a good six or seven of those years. Only recently did school force me back into Vista and Office 2007. I like it! That's right, I went back and I think Vista is a quality OS. I am glad I was forced back into it now, though initially I was very angry about it. I also use Arch Linux. I enjoy both OSs. If I had to make the choice I would pick Linux. But I dont need to make any such choice. Why am I so involved here? I guess because Linux FUD bores me almost as much as MS FUD. I hate Linux evangelists. They are very shortsighted and not very bright. They cant seem to understand that the world does not care about which operating system anyone uses. It took me a few years to outgrow this myself, I once wanted to save the world from the evil empire too. I still recommend Linux to people, I still wax eloquent about its virtues, I still try to help new users get involved in this OS, get going so they can give Linux a fair chance, not just 2-3 hours of being lost and then posting a "linux sucks" thread before running back to MS. I always suggest a new person get an older (but still modern) computer just for Linux. This way they can become involved at their own pace. There is no reason to "dump" Windows. Windows is a useful tool to have around. So why am I wasting my time here, in this thread? I dont know...Maybe to try to bring some balance back. Maybe to try and show that you dont need to "defend" Linux. Maybe to try and explain that it doesnt need to be one or the other. Maybe just because I am a troll at heart too and i just want to rock the boat a bit. :D I just hate to see Linux users stoop to this level. Is Windows perfect? No. But Linux isnt either. Why not just let them worry about the market share, after all, it is THEIR money! Linux has nothing to gain or lose, nothing to prove. Linux just is. It is there for the taking, for anyone who wants a fun alternative. Linux can do anything Windows can do (within reason, you shouldnt expect to run Windows software in Linux, you wouldnt expect to run Linux software in Windows would you?) and many people have done without Windows and have just used Linux for a long time now. Linux was ready for the desktop a decade ago and it has just gotten better since. It has now reached the point where the learning curve is very shallow and it is accessible for anyone. You no longer need to take years to learn it and you dont need to know a dictionary full of bash commands. But you still need to learn. Could Linux take over from Windows? Could the world be as comfortable running Linux as they are Windows now? Yeah, sure. It wouldnt be too hard a transition. Will it ever happen in real life though? No, it will not. Windows is here to stay and it will always rule. Just be happy we have a choice.
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby rich_roast on Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:36 pm

Wow. I'm sorry. :oops:

I don't have time to read the entirety of your post but to answer your initial question it was just a flippant remark. Frankly I'm really happy that there's Windows and that so many people enjoy using it as an operating system: I am equally glad that I am not one of them. It has been my common experience that Linux and Mac users do not tend to return to using Windows once they have migrated, but no, I have not a single shred of hard evidence to back that up.

I humbly retract my statement and shall now shut up. It was partially in jest, partially a quick assessment of a very limited amount of evidence presented here, and 0% meant as a serious and weighted judgment of an entire corporation's entire marketing policy. I am deeply sorry.
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby FedoraRefugee on Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:58 pm

rich_roast wrote:Wow. I'm sorry. :oops:

I don't have time to read the entirety of your post but to answer your initial question it was just a flippant remark. Frankly I'm really happy that there's Windows and that so many people enjoy using it as an operating system: I am equally glad that I am not one of them. It has been my common experience that Linux and Mac users do not tend to return to using Windows once they have migrated, but no, I have not a single shred of hard evidence to back that up.

I humbly retract my statement and shall now shut up. It was partially in jest, partially a quick assessment of a very limited amount of evidence presented here, and 0% meant as a serious and weighted judgment of an entire corporation's entire marketing policy. I am deeply sorry.


ROTFL! Just dont let it happen again! :roll:

edit: I hope you take the time to read it, maybe it will explain my position and reason for posting better than my initial remarks do. I assure you my motivation was not to single you out as having made a blanket statement but rather to show that we are no better ourselves than what we are accusing MS of in this thread.
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby DrHu on Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:24 pm

FedoraRefugee wrote:Why am I so involved here? I guess because Linux FUD bores me almost as much as MS FUD. I hate Linux evangelists.They are very shortsighted and not very bright. They cant seem to understand that the world does not care about which operating system anyone uses.

I hate Linux evangelists.
In terms of FUD, there is plenty to go around; but maybe Microsoft is more organized, because they can pay for and plant stories, whereas Linux FUD mongers might not have as much access to supposed prestige venues..
--only one of those Microsoft controversies; and I don't hate Microsoft or their FUD monger armies..

I did read it, although it took awhile (no paragraphs..)
In terms of FUD, there were a few comments included, that to me are also shortsighted..

world does not care about which operating system anyone uses..
Microsoft most definitely cares, it is at least 1/2 of their sales product line
--and it is the reason they are competing against Google's attempt to disenfranchise any OS, and just run a WEB based system..
FedoraRefugee wrote:Why would anyone bother to learn how to use it when Windows came on the computer, everyone else uses Windows, all their software and any software they are likely to buy runs on Windows, any peripheral out there is designed to run on Windows, and anytime they need help they can get it professionally.

and anytime they need help they can get it professionally.
I don't know how professional it really is, there is no doubt a sales/help desk script that the customer service agents go through, whereby the first problem is the user does not understand the OS
--that is absolutely no different from the user using Linux does not understand that OS..

But, I would agree that most of the time, if it is a simple problem; you need a printer, video, network , hard drive or SP package installed
--that their service agents can get you through the process; eventually and hopefully it doesn't cost you too much (time or money); for as we all know time away is either stressful or it costs (financially)..
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby FedoraRefugee on Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:27 pm

DrHu wrote:
Why am I so involved here? I guess because Linux FUD bores me almost as much as MS FUD. I hate Linux evangelists. They are very shortsighted and not very bright. They cant seem to understand that the world does not care about which operating system anyone uses.

I did read it, although it took awhile (no paragraphs..)
In terms of FUD, there were a few comments included, that to me are also shortsighted..

world does not care about which operating system anyone uses..
Microsoft most definitely cares, it is at least 1/2 of their sales product line
--and it is the reason they are competing against Google's attempt to disenfranchise any OS, and just run a WEB based system..


With 90% of the market I would agree that they are intent to keep things as they are.

I was, of course, talking about the consumer, not the manufacturer. :wink:

BTW, I count 4 paragraphs, though typical of online formatting they are not indented. Nor, I see, are yours. I apologize if they are a little longer than what you would encounter in a Dr. Suess book though.
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby DrHu on Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:40 pm

FedoraRefugee wrote:I was, of course, talking about the consumer, not the manufacturer.

I count 4 paragraphs, though typical of online formatting they are not indented. Nor, I see, are yours. I apologize if they are a little longer than what you would encounter in a Dr. Suess book though.

That's OK

I was, of course, talking about the consumer..
I was considering the consumer, but when it comes to a manufacturer with deep pockets, they are not outside that equation, they are both producer and consumer advocate (in their own self-interest); just like the tobacco lobbies, that always denied any problem with smoking, until the internal memos leaked out..
--does tend to remind me of Microsoft's Halloween documents
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_ ... ments_leak

I don't indent at all, I use blocks only, and --next line; when I want a partial separation.

I never got to read Dr Seuss, I am sorry.
http://www.seussville.com/lb/home.html
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby FedoraRefugee on Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:44 pm

DrHu wrote:
I never got to read Dr Seuss, I am sorry.


It is never too late! :D

--does tend to remind me of Microsoft's Halloween documents


Yikes! That was 10 years ago! Ah, the bad old days. Linux has grown up a bit since then, but they are no threat to MS. MS is just like a mad junkyard dog though, they only know the attack. They cannot just be content to enjoy their marketshare, they have to eat everyone else up too.

Yeah, dont get me wrong, the evil empire is indeed evil. They are big corporate American business at its worst. Not since the steel and railroad barons of the 1800's has anything like MS been seen. It will, someday be their downfall. Nothing lasts forever, not even MS.

My point was not to defend MS, it was to point out that Linux does not need defended either. Linux does NOT compete with MS. In order to compete there needs to be a reward. Linux is free. Market share does not matter. This is what has MS so scared. They can gobble up tangible businesses, but fighting Linux is like swatting at ghosts. They cannot win. But then again, neither can we. :D
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Re: Some FUD I found.

Postby linuxviolin on Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:29 pm

FedoraRefugee wrote:Just be careful you dont become guilty of the same thing you accuse MS of. :) I suppose you can back this statement up? You can prove this? Or is it just "Linux spin?"

I dont know why I am answering this, I have already said my piece in here. I do not consider myself to be on either "side," in fact I dont see any reason why there needs to be a side. MS is trying to advertise their product, trying to show why Windows is the better choice. Some of what they claim holds merit, much does not. This is just advertising, as DrHu mentions. What holds true for me may not hold true for you. I like the taste of Coke better than Pepsi. If Linux were a commercial entity, which it is not, at least not in the form of desktop Linux, do you not think they would spin their advertisement also, explaining why Linux is a better choice than MS? In fact, one only has to read the FUD about Windows in any Linux forum to see this!!! It is no better, in fact it is usually much worse, than anything MS claimed.

But the bottom line here is why do you even care? Are you afraid MS might beat out Linux in the OS market? :lol: I mean, do you honestly think Linux ever stands a chance of taking over from MS? Why cant Linux users just be content with using their OS, why do they feel the need to save the world? Save it from what? Get it through your heads, people dont care about Linux! They dont want to hear about it, they think that because it is free it sucks. And really, trying to get involved in it with no knowledge it does suck!!! Why would anyone bother to learn how to use it when Windows came on the computer, everyone else uses Windows, all their software and any software they are likely to buy runs on Windows, any peripheral out there is designed to run on Windows, and anytime they need help they can get it professionally. Why would a "normal" person want to spend time dicking around with drivers trying to get their printer to print or their wifi to work? Why would they want to spend time trying to figure out Wine to get their favorite game to work? Most Linux distros are buggy at best, that is unless you go with a "stable" distro that is so dated it will bring you to tears. Mint is probably the least buggy out of all of them and a quick look through this forum will tell you it is no walk in the park either. Most of you "Linux evangelists" who want to save the world could not even make a real distro work! Go ahead and try running Fedora or Slackware or Gentoo, Arch, even installing debian. This is why most people dont care about Linux. They just want to use their computers, they dont want to have to become experts. I will grant you that Mint mostly does work and is easy enough for anyone. But the point still stands, why bother?

So why am I getting so wound up here? Am I just another Windows fanboy? I dont believe so, I have paid my dues. I have used Linux for 10 years now. I was MS free for a good six or seven of those years. Only recently did school force me back into Vista and Office 2007. I like it! That's right, I went back and I think Vista is a quality OS. I am glad I was forced back into it now, though initially I was very angry about it. I also use Arch Linux. I enjoy both OSs. If I had to make the choice I would pick Linux. But I dont need to make any such choice. Why am I so involved here? I guess because Linux FUD bores me almost as much as MS FUD. I hate Linux evangelists. They are very shortsighted and not very bright. They cant seem to understand that the world does not care about which operating system anyone uses. It took me a few years to outgrow this myself, I once wanted to save the world from the evil empire too. I still recommend Linux to people, I still wax eloquent about its virtues, I still try to help new users get involved in this OS, get going so they can give Linux a fair chance, not just 2-3 hours of being lost and then posting a "linux sucks" thread before running back to MS. I always suggest a new person get an older (but still modern) computer just for Linux. This way they can become involved at their own pace. There is no reason to "dump" Windows. Windows is a useful tool to have around. So why am I wasting my time here, in this thread? I dont know...Maybe to try to bring some balance back. Maybe to try and show that you dont need to "defend" Linux. Maybe to try and explain that it doesnt need to be one or the other. Maybe just because I am a troll at heart too and i just want to rock the boat a bit. :D I just hate to see Linux users stoop to this level. Is Windows perfect? No. But Linux isnt either. Why not just let them worry about the market share, after all, it is THEIR money! Linux has nothing to gain or lose, nothing to prove. Linux just is. It is there for the taking, for anyone who wants a fun alternative. Linux can do anything Windows can do (within reason, you shouldnt expect to run Windows software in Linux, you wouldnt expect to run Linux software in Windows would you?) and many people have done without Windows and have just used Linux for a long time now. Linux was ready for the desktop a decade ago and it has just gotten better since. It has now reached the point where the learning curve is very shallow and it is accessible for anyone. You no longer need to take years to learn it and you dont need to know a dictionary full of bash commands. But you still need to learn. Could Linux take over from Windows? Could the world be as comfortable running Linux as they are Windows now? Yeah, sure. It wouldnt be too hard a transition. Will it ever happen in real life though? No, it will not. Windows is here to stay and it will always rule. Just be happy we have a choice.

Well, I like well this post and I agree about several things, FedoraRefugee! :D

E.g.:

FedoraRefugee wrote:Most Linux distros are buggy at best (...) I hate Linux evangelists (...) Windows is here to stay and it will always rule.

etc.

But..., yes there is a "but" :lol:, for example I don't think "Vista is a quality OS". For now XP was/is the best Windows, but Windows 7 probably WILL be the best Windows... and I predict it will sell well.

About Office 2007, I agree with you: it's a quite good app, better than OpenOffice. "Really, Office 2007 and the upcoming 2010 are terribly advanced. OpenOffice.org is a dead end, it will never reach any standards of usability and quality."

Thanks for this post FedoraRefugee. :D
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