The Computer and Mental Health/ OCD

[alun_sundry]

I have various psychological troubles including depression and anxiety. Though I've not been diagnosed with OCD, my dad has and both my parents are in a similar condition. It's not a stretch for me to be diagnosed with OCD, though I've met people who have it worse.

My compulsions seem clustered around the computer at present, though both familiar and unfamiliar habits and traits have caught me over the years.

I waste time going round in circles looking at my email accounts, and sites where I've posted some form of art work or another, as if the hit of some contact now rather than later would change it in some way. It's not 100% irrational, it's fed in part by being a bit of a loner mostly, and insecurity felt between social experiences and bits of good fortune, but it's out of perspective. At least I know this - a straightforwardly anal person doesn't and/or is guilty of a type of arrogance, in my experience, wanting to drag another or others into their tiny loop of behaviour.

I'm also forever changing my desktop theme in some way - wallpapers, window borders, cycling between Aero and Classic, panel backgrounds, Emerald on, Emerald off... I home in on something about an operating system that aesthetically offends me and then I need to get the whole thing off my computer and replaced with something else, which invariably has some flaw that drives me mad too. I doubt a Mac would help! Then I go back to a previous one, sometimes hardened and telling myself to just get on with something constructive, which can work for a time. I have literally installed Vista thirty or more times on my laptop, and had sixty or so different versions of Linux on it, often more than once, sometimes more than ten times, which may be why it's started to report bad hard drive sectors... My netbook seems to embody a slight bit of sense and reason about all this. Its theme is the Redmond one, and I replaced the startup jingle with the Windows 95 startup jingle by Brian Eno. It feels like a good joke about the Linux 'freedom' to me, and I think the jingle has some weird Pavlovian effect on me because it reminds me of when things were simpler. The jingle is also the tone playing when I get a text message on my phone, ha ha.

I haven't failed to see a big picture. I did a degree in English and Philosophy, I've enjoyed travel, albeit infrequently for financial reasons, I read novels on big issues, I've had relationships, albeit doomed ones, I play some musical instruments and have a sense of humour that has been appreciated, and have even published some writing in magazines on issues a person would have to be anything but anal to want to portray and discuss. I can be loosened up too - I like a beer and a curry and a good laugh. I am just caught in these habits. I can even see some humour in it during any blip of peace I might get. I wryly note that if we only had Windows 98, for example, if we were back then, I wouldn't be able to fiddle at all. I think it was the horrible green Start blob in Windows XP that first caused my OCD capacity to become invested in the computer. The Vista taskbar which once looked like something out of the future now irritates me because it seems a primitive stab at making something unreal look like glass. As I type, I'm using a Windows 7 pc. This has helped slightly because the feature of shifting wallpapers has stopped me wanting to tweak that myself. But the artificial look of shine in the window borders, those streaks that show up against some backgrounds, that drives me mad when I see it, I find myself thinking, Why did they do that, just leave it plain! It's daft and petty, but I can't switch the thoughts off.

I am very fastidious also about typing emails, correcting all dropped caps and so on. It all takes forever.

It may have been worse still when I started to use Linux operating systems like Ubuntu, because nearly everything is alterable there, and one night for example I spent from 11 pm till 3 a.m changing various things only to put things as they were before I went to sleep. Eeh...

I'd like to know if this is at all common, if anyone here does it or relates and if there are any techniques and ideas to lessen it. I don't mind if you laugh good-naturedly as long as you see the poignant layer too...

Thanks for any response.

[FedoraRefugee]

Yeah, I am quite anal also and while I would not classify myself as OCD some of the things you describe are familiar. I especially like the endless loop thing, aimlessly going from forum to forum checking posts i just made. Why? They are always still there. After a while I catch myself doing this and force myself to put the laptop down...Just walk away. I live in Florida so it isn't hard to find something else to do. At worst I go wash my truck or go for a walk...

As far as themes I stay pretty static, instead I am a distro hopper. But while you describe little flaws I am the opposite in that I LIKE almost every OS I try! I want them all! I have settled in on Arch and Mint but I still try most others as they come out.

I don't know, we all get weird in different ways, I suppose the fact that you recognize it is going a long way to a solution. Just walk away from the computer, find a new hobby.

Marc Summers, a game show host and now on the food network, has bad OCD and has written some neat things about it. You may be interested in reading some of his stuff.

http://www.viryours.com/ms/

[alun_sundry]

Thanks - a good start.

People may be amazed to learn that the Ubuntu forum, where I put the same thread, closed the thread almost immediately, with a cold gripe about the content, even though like here I used the miscelleneous, non-techy category. What were we always told about the meaning of the word ubuntu..?

[MALsPa]

People may be amazed to learn that the Ubuntu forum, where I put the same thread, closed the thread almost immediately, with a cold gripe about the content, even though like here I used the miscelleneous, non-techy category. What were we always told about the meaning of the word ubuntu..?

Someone else over there started a new thread in response to yours.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php? ... tal+health

[dawgdoc]

I find myself checking the forum often, many of us seem to. I reply in many threads/topics, not all are technical. I read threads about issues that do not and will not affect my system (I hope) either due to different hardware or DE

Maybe it is possible to turn this into a productive expression of creativity; even designing themes, desktops and icon sets. There are threads specifically devoted to those who modify there desktops; changing backgrounds, themes, icons, dockbars, etc. See this topic as an example. An entire section of the forum is about artwork.

I find myself spending tens of hours trying to master database creation for a project that I don't see anyone other than myself using. We all have quirks.

[Ebere]

I have been diagnosed Bi-Polar, type two.

Which means pretty much depression, with very occassional 'mania'. With the mania being on a par with what a normal person might experience on getting a new job, car, etc.

Type 2, being mostly depression and anxiety, is a "social-phobic" disease.

Type 1, (Which is what most people think of when they hear Bi-Polar or "manic-Depressive").... being mostly manic, tends more toward being an "-anti- social" disease.

The manic side of things is where the anti-socal problems develop. Schizophrenia, extreme paranoia, etc.

The depressive side is more likely to produce social phobic problems. Such as agoraphobia, where you are unable to leave your house, or otherwise have real social contact. (Which sometimes makes a computer and internet connection invaluable !)


Sometimes I experience rapid cycling.

I am OCD.

I am mostly prone to depression, and anxiety.

Agoraphobia and Panic attacks are common experience.


Both acknowledgement, and understanding, of the problems, are the absolute best route to dealing with them.

Once you know you have problems, and have begun to understand them, one major thing you need to pay attention to, and understand, are triggers.

What triggers your problems ? Stress ? Situations where you have no control, or where control has been taken from you ? Situations where you are being forced to say or do something ? Situations where you are being given more responsibility, or even control over others, than you are comfortable with ? Being in a car ? Even simple things like smells.

My biggest trigger is stress. That stress which comes from relationships, both business and personal, are the worst.

Stress from finances can be a pretty bad trigger. Most noteably, the lack of finances. LOL

Ergo, putting some of the obsessiveness to use, in being obsessed with dealing with my finances in such a way that I am never left without emergency finances... Keeps that particular trigger at bay.

When an emergency -does- happen, if I have not held enough aside, I can be left penniless for the rest of the month.. and that, from experience, puts me into a depression that takes weeks to months to climb out of.

[alun_sundry]

Yes, certainly an OCD or OCD-like set of traits can be put ot good use. I write music and am writing a novel, having published shorter things, and there it will assure some quality. I have done some Linux art, like panel backgrounds and some Gimp and Emerald things and tweaks, but I don't want to learn more as I already have my creative outlets.

To an extent I think I sometimes focus on this theme fiddling and site-checking because I am often shirking my novel, it's like when untidy students suddenly start doing hoovering and ironing when an essay is due...

I suppose I may have invested concentration on theming, with some tentaive prodding of gtk because it felt more easily masterable than, er, life and maybe I'm lucky that it's created its own frustrations.

[proxima_centauri]

alun_sundry,

From what I've gleaned from your post - I wouldn't worry too much.

It sounds like you have developed a habit for behaviours you experience as rewarding; constantly changing and tweaking the system look and feel produces an instant rush of different neurotransmitters - always craving more, something better. Checking sites for updates also produces similar effects but requires more time and effort. I would categorize it closer to "addiction", than any sort of OCD diagnosis. Everyone has an addition of some form (humans enjoy consistently engaging in desirable activities) and it's nothing to worry about if it doesn't interfere with your everyday life.

OCD (as in the acronym) is labelled by obsessions and compulsions. Obsessions are defined as persistent reoccurring thoughts or impulses, typically unwanted and disturbing - causing noticeable anxiety or distress. Compulsions are defined as ritual behaviours repetitive in nature, typical examples including hand-washing, counting or muttering something over and over. The compulsions are usually aimed at reducing the anxiety of the obsessions; however, they are usually illogical and excessive. I don't think you fit any of the criteria from your post - but since I know nothing about you, who knows.

Since you were curious, if you do feel like the behaviours you described are a real problem - exposure therapy is typically used to manage OCD behaviours. Generally speaking, the goal is interact or think about the source of obsessive thoughts, in your case computer use. Then you refrain from engaging, or begin to reduce the ritualistic behaviour, in your case making system tweaks and participation on sites and whatnot. This can also be combined with relaxation and visualization techniques to decrease the desire to engage in the ritual behaviour and associate good feelings with the state you are agitated about. Over time your brain's neuronal patterns re-organize and become accustomed to how you are trying to change.

In all honestly, unless this is having a detrimental negative effect on your everyday life and relationships, it's probably normal behaviour (without knowing more, relatively speaking).

- proxima_centauri

[alun_sundry]

Thanks for all input here. The supportive sounds in the last sixteen hours have been quite a help even if there are few answers.

Yes there is some crossover, I'd call it, between addiction and OCD or OCD-like traits. And I won't succumb to this obsessiveness - at least the start of summer will drive me out the house more.

I am possibly lucky in that the shabby treatment I've had on the Ubuntu forum about this, which first led to deleted threads, then a probationary phase in which even my unrelated post attempts were being vetted by moderators before being deleted, and then my request to cancel my account and the end of my use of that distro, has made me quite sickened and keen to get away from the computer for a bit. At least for the next few days I am visiting somewhere where the computer isn't mine and won't be messed with.

Right now I'm using XP, complete with the horrible green Start blob. Aaaaargh!!

Nuff said.

[FedoraRefugee]

Man, I went back and saw the end of the thread MALsPa linked. I am not going to get into an Ubuntu forum tirade here, you are just another trampled victim of that ridiculous zoo. (And yes, I still have my membership and have never been banned). Don't let it worry you, posting anything in that madhouse is an exercise in futility, though there are some good guys there who have many helpful posts. Search is always a better procedure than submit anyway!

[Fred]

My advice is short and sweet. If "you" think you need help or if you sometimes frighten yourself with you thoughts or actions, then you should by all means seek professional help. Otherwise just pull yourself up by your boot straps and keep moving forward.

Fred

[Ebere]

Thanks for all input here. The supportive sounds in the last sixteen hours have been quite a help even if there are few answers.

Yes there is some crossover, I'd call it, between addiction and OCD or OCD-like traits. And I won't succumb to this obsessiveness - at least the start of summer will drive me out the house more.

I am possibly lucky in that the shabby treatment I've had on the Ubuntu forum about this, which first led to deleted threads, then a probationary phase in which even my unrelated post attempts were being vetted by moderators before being deleted, and then my request to cancel my account and the end of my use of that distro, has made me quite sickened and keen to get away from the computer for a bit. At least for the next few days I am visiting somewhere where the computer isn't mine and won't be messed with.

Right now I'm using XP, complete with the horrible green Start blob. Aaaaargh!!

Nuff said.

Alun, I'm sorry that your thread was treated the way that it was.

But I'm also sorry that you went to such extremes in reaction to that.

It -is- just a forum. It is an invaluable resource. And there are real people behind those monikers. But it is just one of many, on the internet.

I would hate to be banned from there, but it wouldn't be the end of life as I know it.

A few of my threads have been given the heavy-handed treatment, there, as well.

For example, I posted a thread both here and over there, describing how one can take a laptop to the local library, and whether using linux, or windows, download what updates and installations are desired or needed, for a computer that is left at home. Then bring it home and install the packages on the computer that was left at home.

The thread appears here.

When I hit the post button over there, I was given a message that the thread was going to be vetted. I assumed this was normal. And subsequently posted in the thread here, that I had posted the same over there.

Only... The thread never showed up.

Most confusing. It's not like it is detrimental, political, religious, trolling, etc... I am still an absolute newby, but I figured out how to do that, and my thinking was that it was an opportunity for me to give back to the community, by giving instructions on the process from my newby point of view.

So, yes, I guess you could say I had a bit of "personal" worked into that thread.

If I had let myself, I could have reacted badly, like you did.

Instead I remembered... It is only a forum. I held my tounge, and walked away from it for a day.

Then, with some time between myself and the incident, I was able to see the fact that the saddest thing was, it was their loss, and not mine.

The thread is still here, on the mint forum. And I think it has actually proven useful to someone. Hopefully, it will be, again. At the least, if someone anonymous needs the help, they may even find it via google or something similar.

Bottom line was, I tried to be helpful, and my thread was tossed out with the trash, without so much as a how-de-do.

~~~

The rest of that bottom line is that -someone else- has a problem. This wasn't my problem, and it is not something that I should let become my problem.

And this is the real point to posting this. Advice based on personal experience.

First let me say, I hope that if you suspect that you have mental health problems, that you have consulted a professional.

If that professional has prescribed medication for you, I hope that you are taking those meds as if your life depends on them. Because in a way... It does.

Next, Pay attention.

You cannot take a passive role in this, and expect to get any better.

It sounds to me like you have already decided to do whatever you can, on your own. That's a good thing.

But do not reject help, if it is offered.

You need to be pro-active. You need to take charge of your disease, (IF you even -have- the 'disease')... pay attention to your own actions, reactions, etc... Learn to recognize patterns... Learn to recognize triggers. Etc.

YOU... Need to put the handle on this thing, and you need to take control.

As I said, do not reject help.

But do not just hand it all over to someone else, either. Not even your doctor.

~~~

You might look at it like any other learning experience. Like learning Linux Mint for the first time, if all you've ever known is windows.

Right at first, I was completely lost.

Then one day, it just kind of rung like a bell in my head that my biggest enemy was ignorance. Ignorance as in not knowing, not as in being stupid.

I started reading. I started asking questions.

When talking to the doc, I was absolutely honest in answering his questions. (Hey, if you go to the doc, why waste your time and money by not giving him/her all the facts, and being completely honest ? Because if you aren't honest, and/or you simply do not offer up details that you know are relevant... Then all you ARE doing is wasting time and money.)

It's like the guy who calls tech support, then sits there and lies about what he did to cause the problem on the computer... Yet still expects tech to tell him how to fix it. Laughably ridiculous.

The questions I asked were not only of the general variety that they would have been, had I taken a passive role.

I asked the questions everyone else does, of course. But I also asked about exactly WHAT effect a drug was supposed to have. HOW it could/would have that affect. (Hey, whether I know anatomy like a doctor or not, I can still learn to understand the physiology and chemistry of what is going on in my own brain.) Whether they would have any side-affects. Exactly WHY I was being asked to take this drug. Etc.

I short, I took charge, and I treated the entire thing as a challenge.

~~~

In paying attention, over time, I began to recognize patterns. Patterns in my own behaviour. Patterns in how I reacted to others. Patterns in how others treated me, reacted to me, etc...

Once I started to recognize the patterns in my own behaviour which led to downward spirals in my emotional well-being, etc... I started figuring out how to change those patterns/behaviours.

Once I understood enough of same, I gradually began to suss out the fact that most of those bad patterns had common 'triggers'.

Once I understood the problem well enough, I could deal with it well enough to get by in society. And once I figured out the triggers, I started doing what I could to simply avoid those triggers.

I, you, we all, are responsible for our own actions. We are also responsible for our own REactions. "Now look what you made me do", is NOT an acceptable excuse for reacting badly to someone else. You can ALWAYS just walk away.

Control your own reactions. It IS your -own- responsibility.

And when you figure out what triggers bad reactions... Learn to avoid those triggers.

If you make a post here, or anywhere else, and it is not accepted or treated in the manner you think it should be... Just walk away from it. Do not let it get that downward spiral started. You know, the one where feelings feed on feelings, and you start seeing a 'slight' in almost anything. Which only feeds more feelings in there, and you find yourself quitting the forum.

I could probably go on for pages here. But I think, for everyone's sanity, LOL, (including my own.), I should stop at this point.

I can't be relied on for consistant, reliable help, but I will do what I can. If I recognize something that I can help with, or recognize a situation that I think I might have relevant experience with... And I am actually ABLE to do/say anything... I'll do what I can. (Note that the anxiety/agoraphobia, etc... Reaches out even to my dealing with people on the internet. Sometimes I am simply unable to communicate on a par that is helpful.

[Ebere]

Man, I went back and saw the end of the thread MALsPa linked. I am not going to get into an Ubuntu forum tirade here, you are just another trampled victim of that ridiculous zoo. (And yes, I still have my membership and have never been banned). Don't let it worry you, posting anything in that madhouse is an exercise in futility, though there are some good guys there who have many helpful posts. Search is always a better procedure than submit anyway!

I was thinking the same thing, this morning.

Hoping that this was not going to turn into a "Bash Ubuntu Foums" gala event.

[alun_sundry]

Thanks for that. I will digest everything, but I'm quite worn out with it all now and am happy to put the matter to bed. I was quite restrained with the Ubuntu forum staff in the circumstances though, and there is only so much walking away from uncivilised behaviour you can do until it's just you on a quiet island, and I'm afraid I've seen a lot of absolutely harrowing abuse from mental health professionals too.

Cheers.

[MrD]

First step is always to DENY! Second is to protect people from themselves. Sometimes you have to move or deleted things that could open up people to abuse. But it didn't sound like that was what they were doing there. I have to admit that if I was working on a forum of that size I would delete your thread, or alter it to remove most of your personal identifiers and monitor it.

I suffered a brain injury in an MTB accident and recuperation spun me all sorts of problems. Little addictions, behavioural traits and the like. They weren't limited to certain areas, they were quite random. But you have to understand that 1 in 4 people have disabilities of some form and manner and that amongst our own societies we frequently have people around us that suffer from something that affects their lives and needs a bit of leeway for. Even with disability we are fully capable of leading our lives quite well. Some of us sit there frequently when so called "normal" people act so unsociable that you wonder what their excuse is for their behaviour. As I've been known to state many times by people around me, "I've got a brain injury, what's your f***ing excuse?" when faced with awful behaviour.

Technology, like everything, can bring certain behaviours in us. I feel most of it is down to dissatisfaction with it. Things just don't look right and under the illusion that the "grass is greener on the other side" we play around and try things. We change day to day, week to week, and may genuinely need regular change to suit our moods and emotions. But ultimately, we have to recognise our little quirks and know when we have to live with them, or when we take action to correct them.

How disabled people are seen by the people around us and the community at large is important. There are little ways of playing your cards that ease these introductions and behavioural traits into accepted patterns those around us allow. If we're not careful, the labels modern medical science puts on people will separate them from the communities. A starting point here is to read Goffman's: Stigma. When you start to see what people face and how they try to be fit in, then you start to lower the knee jerk views you have. Here's the intro to his book, with a copy of a letter to a magazine column.

Dear Miss Lonelyhearts ---
I am sixteen years old now and I don't know what to do and would appreciate it if you could tell me what to do. When I was a little girl it was not so bad because I got used to the kids on the block makeing fun of me, but now I would like to have boy friends like the other girls and go out on Saturday nites, but no boy will take me because I was born without a nose --- although I am a good dancer and have a nice shape and my father buys me pretty clothes.
I sit and look at myself all day and cry. I have a big hole in the middle of my face that scares people even myself so I cant blame the boys for not wanting to take me out. My mother loves me, but she crys terrible when she looks at me.
What did I do to deserve such a terrible bad fate? Even if I did do some bad things I didnt do any before I was a year old and I was born this way. I asked Papa and he says he doesnt know, but that maybe I did something in the other world before I was born or that maybe I was being punished for his sins. I dont believe this because he is a very nice man. Ought I commit suicide?

--- Sincerely yours,
Desperate
[From Miss Lonelyhearts by Nathanael West]

Anyone with any issue about themselves feels this way at times. Our nose/feet/hands are too big, we fail to understand what is going through peoples minds, cannot get why people are so cruel, wonder why we are poor, suffer medical issues, problems with families/work/success, have little behavioural quirks. Now we have a focus for a lot of things, the internet and computers. We're never really without a working internet service in the West. Our mobile phones can get on virtually everywhere except in the most remote places (I'm going somewhere in the UK in a few days with no phone masts!) We find people commenting we use the internet too much, on forums, IM's, reading newsites. We should be making more time to socialise (and we frown at this, because isn't that what we are doing online?) We change our wallpapers, themes and layouts/folder structure to suit developing tastes, much like anyone would shift the sofas round their living room, change the wallpaper or paint colour, carpets and curtains. Only now we can do it at a whim! We give our kids software like Disney's: Barbie where our daughters can instantly play dressup with the character on the screen, our sons play Lego computer games, building things out of blocks and driving them around (well, have you seen the price of Lego nowadays?) It's just progression.

With any addictions or quirks, we must self identify them and then work out a plan to get round them, ask for advice and try out new ways of living. All the while maintaining a community presence at work, school, family and the neighbourhood. Life goes on, we get one shot at it and we want to be happy. Education is always the key, it opens doors to us that we voluntarily choose to walk through. The rest we hide and not to feel too much shame about.

[nukm]

I don't see the connection between "the computer" and your mental health. "The computer" did not cause your condition.

If you have not had a lobotomy, been put in an insulin coma, or had confusional ECT to the point where you had to be taught again to feed yourself, "Harrowing experiences" at the hands of mental health professionals were likely pretty tame. If you do not yet have permanent tardive dyskinesia, you haven't really been assaulted with pharmaceuticals. By your own admission, you have not been diagnosed OCD. If you were OCD, You wouldn't have enough free time to post here.

You could always use spellcheck for those missing caps.

My opinion of the Ubuntu forum has gone up a notch since reading your lamentable lament.

[DrHu]

I tend to agree with Fred, if some psychological condition is causing you to spend too much time working with the computer beyond a normal, just using it, and you are not technically interested in a computer's OS or its technical operation: then you do need to make a psychological change..

As you diagnose yourself as OCD, then that is the condition you have to manage: nothing to do with the object you are currently paying attention to (the computer)

[Oscar799]

Lively discussion is good,but this is a sensitive subject so please consider the feelings of others when posting.
Thanks
oscar799
Forum Moderator

[SpudGun]

I'd like to know if this is at all common, if anyone here does it or relates and if there are any techniques and ideas to lessen it. I don't mind if you laugh good-naturedly as long as you see the poignant layer too...

Thanks for any response.

I have the same problem as you, but i am controlled by my wife, if i change anything se gets angry, and shouts, what the f**k have you done to this now, such a lady, so that keeps me under control, this is why i dual boot, so i have my own secret play ground, Doh! i've just contradicted my self, i'm not under control at all, i've just gone underground.