[Solved] Need Help with ATI Graphics Driver

[RobertLM78]

Basic specs: Dimension 4600i, Pentium 4, 1 GB RAM, 16 MB ATI Rage 128 Pro Ultra TF, Mint 13 MATE 32-bit.

I apologize straight-away for asking about such a legacy device, but I've read some conflicting things about this old graphics card I got recently for $6. I should also state that the cards performance is mostly good, it's really the 3D acceleration that seems to be rather slow (namely in games). Perhaps the fact that the card is old and has only 16MB of RAM could means that it's working as well as it's ever going to work, but please keep reading . Note that the integrated graphics on the machine only have only an 8MB aperture, and Oolite on Window$ XP [oolite win v1.76] seemed to run better than in Linux [oolite linux v1.76] with a descrete card - which is completely and utterly suprising .

First, a proprietary driver. I know this is an old piece of hardware, but it seems as though there should be a proprietary driver out there for this card. Note that I don't have any experience with proprietary linux drivers yet, so I'm a rather green in this department .

Second, the open source driver that is in use right now gives some funny feedback in lshw:

sudo lshw -c video
*-display UNCLAIMED <---- I haven't found satisfactory definition of what this means, just questions about it
description: VGA compatible controller
product: Rage 128 Pro Ultra TF
vendor: Hynix Semiconductor (Hyundai Electronics)
physical id: 0
bus info: pci@0000:01:00.0
version: 00
width: 32 bits
clock: 66MHz
capabilities: agp agp-2.0 pm vga_controller bus_master cap_list
configuration: latency=64 mingnt=8 <----- And shouldn't this line have the driver name in it?
resources: memory:f8000000-fbffffff ioport:de00(size=256) memory:fe9fc000-fe9fffff memory:fea00000-fea1ffff

Any advice on what UNCLAIMED means and how to resolve it would be awesome, since I'm really curious as to what that's all about .
-----------------
glxinfo | grep render
direct rendering: Yes
OpenGL renderer string: Gallium 0.4 on llvmpipe (LLVM 0x300)
GL_NV_conditional_render, GL_AMD_draw_buffers_blend,

inxi -G
Graphics: Card: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI Rage 128 Pro Ultra TF
X.Org: 1.11.3 drivers: ati (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) Resolution: 1024x768@60.0hz
GLX Renderer: Gallium 0.4 on llvmpipe (LLVM 0x300) GLX Version: 2.1 Mesa 8.0.2
------------------
I went ahead and ran this unity support test, since it seems to be 3D acceleration-related

/usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test -p
OpenGL vendor string: VMware, Inc.
OpenGL renderer string: Gallium 0.4 on llvmpipe (LLVM 0x300)
OpenGL version string: 2.1 Mesa 8.0.2

Not software rendered: no
Not blacklisted: yes
GLX fbconfig: yes
GLX texture from pixmap: yes
GL npot or rect textures: yes
GL vertex program: yes
GL fragment program: yes
GL vertex buffer object: yes
GL framebuffer object: yes
GL version is 1.4+: yes

Unity 3D supported: no

I hope haven't bogged this down with too many details, but if I'm missing anything, just ask .

[Oscar799]

Moved back here by moderator - the purpose of Newbie Quesions section is as stated "Please stick to easy to-the-point questions that you feel people can answer fast. For long and complicated questions prefer the other forums within the support section."
Another time,if you don't get a response within about 3 days bump your post back to the top of the list

[wayne128]

description: VGA compatible controller
product: Rage 128 Pro Ultra TF

I think this one might not have proprietary driver for Linux.

anyway, first thing you should do is,
go to the AMD driver website
http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx
do your step 1,2,3, and hopefully step4 give you Linux driver...

I just click with
1. Desktop
2. Rage series
3. Rage 128 Pro
4, it give Win driver and no linux

good luck to find proprietary driver.

if you can find it, just download it, change file to executable, and run it , select all default setting, it should do installation for you...

[AlbertP]

There is no driver from ATI available for Rage on Linux. And if there were one it would be so old that it does not work on modern Linux versions anymore.

You can't get any better graphics on a Rage. Basic desktop usage should work a bit but there is no 3D acceleration.

That there is no driver listed in lshw, is because there is no kernel driver. UNCLAIMED just means that the device is not claimed by any kernel driver.
The limited support that you have is coming from the X.Org driver ati which is not shown by lshw because it is not a kernel module. But it is shown in inxi -Gx output.

[RobertLM78]

Moved back here by moderator - the purpose of Newbie Quesions section is as stated "Please stick to easy to-the-point questions that you feel people can answer fast. For long and complicated questions prefer the other forums within the support section."
Another time,if you don't get a response within about 3 days bump your post back to the top of the list

No problem, sorry about that. I didn't think it would be cool to put it back on top

[RobertLM78]

There is no driver from ATI available for Rage on Linux. And if there were one it would be so old that it does not work on modern Linux versions anymore.

You can't get any better graphics on a Rage. Basic desktop usage should work a bit but there is no 3D acceleration.

That there is no driver listed in lshw, is because there is no kernel driver. UNCLAIMED just means that the device is not claimed by any kernel driver.
The limited support that you have is coming from the X.Org driver ati which is not shown by lshw because it is not a kernel module. But it is shown in inxi -Gx output.

Thanks for the reply Albert .
I does appear that the generic vesa driver is in action, giving what support I do have, as you're saying:

inxi -Gx
Graphics: Card: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI Rage 128 Pro Ultra TF bus-ID: 01:00.0
X.Org: 1.11.3 drivers: ati (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) Resolution: 1024x768@60.0hz
GLX Renderer: Gallium 0.4 on llvmpipe (LLVM 0x300) GLX Version: 2.1 Mesa 8.0.2 Direct Rendering: Yes

Both xserver-xorg-video-r128 and xserver-xorg-video-ati are installed on the system, but why doesn't the "sub-driver" r128 not appear to load?

I knew this thing was ancient, but I'm a little disappointed to hear that it may be working as good as it is going to work. I thought legacy hardware support one of the Linux's great strengths, but I guess not when it comes to old agp cards .

[RobertLM78]

anyway, first thing you should do is,
go to the AMD driver website
http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx

Thanks for the reply and well-wishes . I actually tried that the other day .

[AlbertP]

Both xserver-xorg-video-r128 and xserver-xorg-video-ati are installed on the system, but why doesn't the "sub-driver" r128 not appear to load?

ati is just a wrapper which decides which driver to load: in your care r128. Even though the "sub-driver" is not shown, I think it is in use as there is no other driver loaded.

I knew this thing was ancient, but I'm a little disappointed to hear that it may be working as good as it is going to work. I thought legacy hardware support one of the Linux's great strengths, but I guess not when it comes to old agp cards .

About old AGP card support: old Radeon cards, such as the 9000 series, have some more support, Rage is just too old for that. It also does not have enough video RAM to accelerate modern software. On the other hand, it is possible to run Google Earth on a Nvidia Riva TNT2 Pro. That's my spare graphics card.
(However, some Riva TNT/TNT2 cards cause random crashes because the driver is not maintained well, and running a window manager with OpenGL is not possible on old Nvidia's as there's no support for non-power of two textures in the driver)

What integrated graphics does the computer have? Note that the aperture is often not the same as the amount of video RAM. The aperture is the amount of data that can be written at once. The video RAM can be bigger.

[RobertLM78]

About old AGP card support: old Radeon cards, such as the 9000 series, have some more support, Rage is just too old for that. It also does not have enough video RAM to accelerate modern software. On the other hand, it is possible to run Google Earth on a Nvidia Riva TNT2 Pro. That's my spare graphics card.
(However, some Riva TNT/TNT2 cards cause random crashes because the driver is not maintained well, and running a window manager with OpenGL is not possible on old Nvidia's as there's no support for non-power of two textures in the driver).

I might have been mistaken about the amount of video RAM on the card (see the image below). I don't think the person I got the card from really knew that much about it . But since it is so old, I don't think it would make a difference. I can run GE on it, but it is a little slow (smooth, but slow, like there's a bit of delay between moving the mouse to pan around and actually seeing the view move).

What integrated graphics does the computer have? Note that the aperture is often not the same as the amount of video RAM. The aperture is the amount of data that can be written at once. The video RAM can be bigger.

Thank you for clarifying that - I've wondered if the aperture was all the video memory available for the system to use or not. The onboard graphics are Intel Extreme Graphics 2 on an 865g chipset (agp aperture can be = 1MB or 8MB).

[eanfrid]

Your card uses currently (software) host CPU-based rendering (llvmpipe) instead of its weak built-in CPU. If not GE would probably not work at all.

X.Org: 1.11.3 drivers: ati (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) Resolution: 1024x768@60.0hz
GLX Renderer: Gallium 0.4 on llvmpipe (LLVM 0x300) GLX Version: 2.1 Mesa 8.0.2 Direct Rendering: Yes

[RobertLM78]

Your card uses currently (software) host CPU-based rendering (llvmpipe) instead of its weak built-in CPU. If not GE would probably not work at all.

X.Org: 1.11.3 drivers: ati (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) Resolution: 1024x768@60.0hz
GLX Renderer: Gallium 0.4 on llvmpipe (LLVM 0x300) GLX Version: 2.1 Mesa 8.0.2 Direct Rendering: Yes

Thanks for the post eanfrid. This has been a very educational thread indeed. So what you're saying is the main CPU is doing the work via software, and bypassing the GPU on the card? That's some wild stuff. Would I just be better off using the onboard graphics? ( I have to laugh at myself at this point, because I figured a descrete card, no matter how old (and apparently weak ), would have to be better than the onboard graphics )

[eanfrid]

Actually, the GPU is used for 2D (ati driver) but 3D rendering is run by the CPU (through llvmpipe). So your card is not really useless if it is faster or provides better resolutions/refresh rates than onboard graphics for the 2D part There was a time when onboard "graphics" were just able to provide 640x480 in 16 colors (VGA standard)

[AlbertP]

So what you're saying is the main CPU is doing the work via software, and bypassing the GPU on the card? That's some wild stuff. Would I just be better off using the onboard graphics?

There is no 3D driver for Rage. So programs using 3D will use the CPU instead of GPU to render the images. But the actual displaying is just done by the GPU as the 2D driver "ati" (i.e. r128) is present.
Intel Extreme Graphics has a driver on Linux but as the GPU is very limited, some modern programs may refuse to run on it.

If you do not use 3D acceleration at all, then you can just use the ATI card. The ATI one has its own memory, where the Intel one may use system memory. For 2D usage a Rage is fine.

By the way the memory shown in the system information, is just the AGP aperture (64 MB is the default aperture on most motherboards). Rage 128 cards should have 32 MB of video RAM.

[RobertLM78]

Actually, the GPU is used for 2D (ati driver) but 3D rendering is run by the CPU (through llvmpipe). So your card is not really useless if it is faster or provides better resolutions/refresh rates than onboard graphics for the 2D part There was a time when onboard "graphics" were just able to provide 640x480 in 16 colors (VGA standard)

One of the drawbacks to a hand-me-down computer is that you can wind up with the onboard "graphics" . This is quite interesting, and would totally explain the high CPU usage I was noticing (which appeared to be strange to me since there is a discrete card in the machine).

[RobertLM78]

There is no 3D driver for Rage. So programs using 3D will use the CPU instead of GPU to render the images. But the actual displaying is just done by the GPU as the 2D driver "ati" (i.e. r128) is present.
Intel Extreme Graphics has a driver on Linux but as the GPU is very limited, some modern programs may refuse to run on it.

If you do not use 3D acceleration at all, then you can just use the ATI card. The ATI one has its own memory, where the Intel one may use system memory. For 2D usage a Rage is fine.

By the way the memory shown in the system information, is just the AGP aperture (64 MB is the default aperture on most motherboards). Rage 128 cards should have 32 MB of video RAM.

Between you and Eanfrid, I sure have learned a lot from this, cheers fellas. About the card's memory, I'm not sure what to think. I was told that it was 16MB from the person I got it from, and the system information (image above) says 64 MB. The bottom line is, everything is working, even if it's a little slow - I just won't worry about 3D on this machine (it is my secondary computer, but good for when my wife wants to use the new computer ).
I guess it isn't serious, as I understand it, to have a piece of hardware as "UNCLAIMED" - just no kernel module (though it seems just a little "messy"). So, I think we've pretty well solved this one. Thanks again for the help - I was a little disappointed at first when I hadn't gotten any responses in days while this issue was nagging me, just wanting to be understood .

[Detection]

I know this is an old thread but did anyone get any further with this?

Im in the same boat as OP with the same GPU and can only get a usable experience with LXDE

[AlbertP]

@ Detection: Please open a new topic for that. In that topic please post the output of inxi -Gx in terminal.