I have/like Mint- but...WHY? What was the point??

[MacLindroid]

My point exactly. I have this Linux Love Affaire with Mint, that's it.

As most computer users globally do not even have Internet access, or at best expensive, slow connections, the removal of local sync between smartphones and computers was premature. The majority of users still require local sync via USB, as Apple quickly learned when they removed this from iOS7 and iTunes earlier 2014. Mac users rioted online and posted 242 pages of raw anger aimed at the Apple Tree. Similar posts frequent Windows forums.

I will be forced to return to Windows just because of this.

Someone said that Linux does not have viruses. That is not true; there are a few yet Linux is most unlikely to become infected, because of how it works and not because of a smaller user base. Same goes for Windows Phone 8 and BBOS: infections rather unlikely.

Linux is just good at keeping my brain from rusting. It is not better than Windows by a wide margin, but it has many benefits. I see it as a good OS if you live in the connected world and more so in the corporate arena where it will save millions of dollars and reduce risk. As a home user? Nice to have!

[MacLindroid]

I usually don't expect Aple OS-X users to switch;

I'm a long-time Apple user who's been moving to Linux of late. (I use Windows at work, because I don't have a choice (though my PC is due to be upgraded soon to a new Mac, so that's some progress at least). For a variety of reasons--not the least of which is the trend of Apple making the macs more like their iOS devices--closed-box consumer appliances, with limited hardware choices. For the moment, I still have an iMac at home, but I've been using my Linux laptop more and more. I haven't decided yet what I will do when my iMac finally dies. I like the ideals of the open software movement, even if as a practical matter, it doesn't always live up to the ideal. I am not opposed to commercial or proprietary software, but it is good that there is an alternative. Using Linux is perhaps not quite as much of a wild frontier as it used to be--we have electricity and indoor plumbing now--but actually getting all the hardware properly configured in my new laptop was a PITA. But I guess if you want to live outside the security of the walled garden, that's the price.

I do like the fact that going between Linux and OS X is relatively easy--open up the terminal window, there's the bash shell, things are more or less in the same places.

In my country, Apple costs as much as 55% more than in the USA. Our money is worth 1/11th of the US$. Apple, therefore, is insanely expensive to the average user here. Even so, I have spent good money on a MacbookPro, an iPhone 5 and an iPhone 5S since a year ago. Due to Apple breaking things that have worked before, I sold my iPhone, bought a cheap Huawei at a tenth of the price and my son now is living with the MBP and the 5S. Apple removed local sync, a most unintelligent move given the fact that 2/3 of the global population do not have internet access at all and, of the remaining connected third, only a small percentage enjoy affordable, stable, reliable broadband.

Then the security breaches, resulting in iOS 7.06 to plug the gap. Then iCloud was hacked, Notes & Contacts sync via iCloud corrupted data of many users, leaving them irate. In my instance, I had to resort to Google to get my Apple to sync my data reliably. And we moved to Apple to steer clear of Google in the first place! No, no Apples in my basket, thank you! Linux is much more reliable, stable and even predictable.

I would rather return to Windows to sync my data via USB than ever buy Apple again. Oh, and when the genuine Apple USB cable that came with it is reported as a non-Apple device and I cannot even charge my phone, same happened to scores of others. Then that GPS that places Antarctica NORTH of Cape Town. No wonder Apple had lost direction altogether...................

[ktheking]

As a home user? Nice to have!

ERH ... wrong ...

I'm starting to do Linux mint installations now for customers being forced away from XP because their banks won't support XP platform anymore. The first installation is sold last week, and only positive feedbacks.
There is are a few big differences to Microsofts previous OS outphasing (Windows 98, Windows 2000) :
-now the hardware is still powerfull enough to run something else => linux mint xfce (or other variants)
-the minor upgrade that do are required to make run are heap as hell
-the something is mature enough for delivering the basic services which makes 75% of the migrating XP users happy
-mint/ubuntun and other ubuntu variants - community is larger,faster and more reliable ,then then microsoft support service
-more and more hardware vendors start supporting linux,and handing over drivers and tools

I'm telling you ,the moment is there. Ceise it or miss the train.
The one thing lacking is the big corporate guys ,not being able to find a business model that suits them.
Well I won't wait until they find it ,I'm going for it myself.

One thankfull IT guy.

K.

[Nonnatus]

The reason I installed Linux Mint (and later Xubuntu on another machine) was for the font rendering. My vision is not very good, and Windows starting with Win 7 really messed up their font rendering to where I found it very hard to read, even though I had tweaked it as much as possible. On Mint and Xubuntu, the text is crystal clear. What a difference that makes in my day to day life! I keep a Windows machine at home and office, for use with my Access database and our Active Directory network at work (they haven't got it working with Linux... I don't think they've tried). But, for most things I use the Linux machine because it is so much easier on my eyes.

Thank you for bringing that up. I don't understand how people can stare at Windows day in and day out and not ever wonder "Who the rainbows is in charge of font rendering in Windows, and what have they really been doing for the past ten years?" My guess is he's just looking for his stapler. In Mint, although I have some issues with the default fonts (I can be really picky about these things), the rendering is perfect for me.

Back to the original topic, aside from the font thing, I also love Linux for my work (web development). With Vagrant, I *can* get my work done on Windows now, but the OS is still uncomfortable. I also like the traditional desktop metaphor and *hate* Windows 8, as well as Gnome 3 and Unity, and at least Linux allows choice.

Edit: I like the word filter: "Who the rainbows..."

[snipertyler]

The typical answers are --> less viruses, needs less cpu, less ram, variety in desktop environments, free (both perspectives), significant security advantages (apt-get / aptitude are much more secure then downloading random share-ware binaries). These are all true in their own merit. All positive features can be reduced based on user choice (eg. you're still permitted to download and use random binaries) or enhanced.

So let's get down to what really matters. User Choice

You can swap things out, change things, modify configurations, work with as many graphical user interfaces (g.u.i) or as little (terminal) as you want! Both are powerful, both are reliable (gui becoming more so)
Contrary to OS's driven by markets - Linux (and BSD) are driven by delivering what people really want - focusing on tech people (more inclined towards less techy as time goes by) What I mean by this is programs that you would consider useful to have are useally already installed. Taking libreoffice for example. Convenient to have a stable version of a office suite preinstalled? I sure thought so. Or a expansive image editor? (gimp)

On the terminal side, I definitely consider programs like ffmpeg (media converter), ssh, nano, apt-get, openssl, and hundreds of terminal based programs to do what I need, how I need it. without needing to click through many windows. By using the terminal, you begin to understand how to use your computer. Not how to use programs. That is a important difference.
For example, ever wanted to chat with someone on a local network?
You type -> nc -l 9876
They type -> nc your_ip 9876
and you're chatting. That's a feature in Windows I looked an eternity to get - only to end up downloading some freeware that kind of worked..

[MacLindroid]

The typical answers are --> less viruses, needs less cpu, less ram, variety in desktop environments, free (both perspectives), significant security advantages (apt-get / aptitude are much more secure then downloading random share-ware binaries). These are all true in their own merit. All positive features can be reduced based on user choice (eg. you're still permitted to download and use random binaries) or enhanced.

So let's get down to what really matters. User Choice


On the terminal side, I definitely consider programs like ffmpeg (media converter), ssh, nano, apt-get, openssl, and hundreds of terminal based programs to do what I need, how I need it. without needing to click through many windows. By using the terminal, you begin to understand how to use your computer. Not how to use programs. That is a important difference.
For example, ever wanted to chat with someone on a local network?
You type -> nc -l 9876
They type -> nc your_ip 9876
and you're chatting. That's a feature in Windows I looked an eternity to get - only to end up downloading some freeware that kind of worked..

I am retired and fiddle with Linux as some bug had bitten me. Experimenting from a command libe is great fun as it takes me back to days gone by, when I worked on mainframes, workstations with OS2, MS-DOS, CP/M-80, etc. It keeps me going and I am not even remotely ageing as fast as the guy 35 years my junior, whom I had met in a cell phone store today, and who did not know what iOS was. A "sales executive" he is, according to the print on his T-shirt. he thought it was something that runs on Android and then went to ask if it can run on the Android on an iPhone. So I told him to get Linux, start learning about ICT and, maybe in five years from now, he could be making a positive contribution as a systems integrator. He is so poor in understanding as he only knows Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and games. What happens inside the box is witchcraft he has no idea of.

Mint is a distro I like very much also because of the extremely nice people I have met here. It makes learning an old dog new tricks great fun and I thank everybody who had so kindly guided me in the past. Linux really is a Mint idea!

[MartyMint]

So I told him to get Linux, start learning about ICT and, maybe in five years from now, he could be making a positive contribution as a systems integrator. He is so poor in understanding as he only knows Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and games. What happens inside the box is witchcraft he has no idea of.

People are trying to earn a living everywhere.

Maybe you should do your shopping online.

[MacLindroid]

So I told him to get Linux, start learning about ICT and, maybe in five years from now, he could be making a positive contribution as a systems integrator. He is so poor in understanding as he only knows Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and games. What happens inside the box is witchcraft he has no idea of.

People are trying to earn a living everywhere.

Maybe you should do your shopping online.

In my country, unemployment is at around 60% and then there are labour laws that discriminate upon race. When someone from a minority race actually gets a job, it is both sad and surprising to see a lack of passion and enthusiasm. Linux as a community is where these qualities are fairly obvious, to the point of it being contagious, in a good sense. If I bought online, I would have missed out on the opportunity to whet someone's appetite and to lure him towards an adventurous journey called sudo. Perhaps all the young ones need is someone who cares enough to invest a few minutes into their lives.

The Linux community has always been investing into humanity and I am more than willing to be doing my bit.

[MartyMint]

When someone from a minority race actually gets a job, it is both sad and surprising to see a lack of passion and enthusiasm.

The veil over the racism in that comment is thread-bare.

...I would have missed out on the opportunity to whet someone's appetite and to lure him towards an adventurous journey called sudo.

...or perhaps, they're just looking "towards an adventurous journey" of feeding their children/paying bills.

Funny you mention "humanity" with such zeal. You seem to exhibit a deficit.

[simonbrown]

The point is, for a lot of people, Win XP's demise.

That was a huge opportunity for the OSS community generally. I think that *nix, but especially easy to learn distros like Mint, have mostly missed that opportunity. From my personal experience (admittedly anecdotal evidence), many of the people who were still using XP when MS killed it were using it for Office-based work. There seems to be little point trying to convert nerds/IT/server people, because you're preaching to the choir. Look to the average Joe who wants something to fire up the internet (Firefox: check), check their email (Thunderbird: is go), do their word processing (libre/open office: fail), and their spreadsheets (libre/open office: mega fail).
e
Libre/open office - they work fine for very basic word processing/spreadsheets, but struggle with more complex ones.

Office macros were differ[en]t and Libre couldn't interpret them

I've had the same problem with spreadsheets in libre, but not even very complex macros (relatively basic homebrew ones). Or, in my experience, libre battles with reports, theses, or anything that needs to be presented to a customer. Headings and themes are very hit and miss. And that, imho, is the biggest failing of Mint as far as the average user goes - the only really professional looking office software for it is MS.

PS: I know that's not Mint's fault per se, but it is a big negative to users who need that functionality.

100% agree. I am very happy with Linux Mint, but there is no way I could do my day job in a large corporate on it. There Office rules, and for very good reasons. The free equivalents to it (libre etc.) are poor in comparison. I use Libre Calc mainly, and for my intended use (simple data manipulation) it is generally OK, but it hangs regularly, the recovery side is 'interesting', and it cannot read all the csv files I need it to read correctly, so now I have Gnumeric as well just to read the odd csv's that Libre calc won't. Linux as replacement or alternative to Windows - that works just fine, in fact I find Mint easier to use and more intuitive than my corporate Windows 7. As a vehicle to run corporate office applications - sorry, not in my experience. When we get to cloud applications dominating so that office applications are dominantly used through the browser then it should be far easier to slide OS for the corporate world.

[wheeledgoat]

I consider my computer an appliance, akin to a refrigerator, dishwasher or dryer. I use it to accomplish tasks. I think this approach is most healthy if you find yourself going down the road of comparing Linux to another OS. It's worth re-evaluating exactly what you're trying to do and keeping the task's goal in focus, not losing yourself in the details of how you're used to doing it.

Linux is not a Windows replacement. Wasn't intended to be. It's an alternative operating system [that may or may not suit your needs].

Maybe think of Linux, Mac & Win as planes, trains and automobiles?

Personally, I love how Linux has streamlined my life. A fresh install has all the applications I need. I only need to tweak my speaker and printer/scanner settings. Gone are the days spent doing a Windows re-install, with all the proprietary drivers and updates and bloatware. Linux Mint is a breath of fresh air.

Prime example: scanning software. I pull up Simple Scan, scan the document, and save it in my choice of format. Task complete, moving on with my day. I'd still be sitting at the Windows computer waiting for HP's bloatware scanning software to get over itself and load already.

All this, and it's magnitudes cheaper? And safer? Of all the decisions I have to make in my life, this one's a no brainer.

[JerryMurdock]

WHY? is, of necessity, directly related to WHAT?
WHAT do you want your computer to do for you? If you are in a corporate environment using Microsoft Office, Mint (or any distro of Linux) is probably not really what you need. If you are an avid gamer, stick with Windows. If you expect everything to work "out of the box" without any effort on your part, Linux may not be for you.
If, on the other hand, you are prepared to put a little extra effort into getting much better performance (on MOST applications) at a much lower cost. Linux in general & Mint in particular is great. I could easily be wrong, but I think most home PC users have very little need for the few things that Windows can do better than Linux.
I started with MSDOS in the '80s, first saw Windows when I got a free floppy of Windows 1.0 with a graphics board, started using Windows at work with "Windows for Workgroups 3.11", & used every version through NT 4.0 & XP before I retired (when my company shut down in 2006). At that time I bought a company PC with XP & MS Office. I was never very happy with the amount of time & effort required to keep windows patched & updated, so I started reading up on Linux.
Soon after Ubuntu 6.06 was released, I decided to give it a try . I was impressed with the fact that I was able to download & install Ubuntu, dual boot with my existing Windows, with no problem. I was even more impressed with the speed on an old PC.
Since my first install of Ubuntu, I have always had a "primary" PC set up to dual boot Windows with some Linux distro - mostly UIbuntu until they started pushing Unity, and Mint ever since. I have had several "back-up" Pcs set up with Linux only, but I still have a few applications for which I prefer using wndows based programs (or for which NO Linux program is available). At present, I probably boot into Windows for 10 - 12 hours every two months (with 9-3/4 - 11- 3/4 of that being used to perform updates and maintenance). As an old retired guy with no requirement to conform to "standards", I find that I really don't need Windows & mostly use it for compaibility with my wife's PC (she is afraid of Linux). I intend to set up my wife's next PC to dual boot & see how long it takes her to notice, If she uses it for a few days, I'll bet she will prefer it.

[expat_tony]

Why did I want to try out Linux? Microsofts' junking of my old familiar XP.
When did I start? April 1st 2014 (no, I'm not lining up a sarcastic joke here)
What was I using on April 9th 2014? Still XP, as I could neither boot Linux with persistence nor install a dual boot by then.
But in time, I learned. The brilliant users of this forum had most of the answers, or else links to bloggers who had the answers.

Why did I persist long enough to find that out?
Partly, it was reading this e-book: http://www.freeyourselffrommicrosoftandthensa.org/.
It's very polemical, and perhaps includes a conspiracy theory or two too many. But its basic logic hangs together: stick with MS and the average user will have a product that's doomed to be second-rate by design, while being ever-vulnerable to hackers, criminal or governmental, who apparently all use the same open backdoor in the Windows code. They'll also remain a consumer victim of big corporations pushing their wares in more and more sophisticated and inescapable ways. Newbies, read it and you may just get mad enough to see your conversion though. Oh, and you'll also pick up a few tips about how to do Linux Mint right.

Partly? So what else kept me going? Well, I started to have successes. First I got the booting with persistence right, so was able to mock up the kind of system I wanted. Found out how quick and easy most installations were. Eventually I reached my holy grail, a dual boot. This gave me the sense of security (a fallback position) I needed to try using LM for serious money-earning tasks.
At first, it fell short. I had issues with printer drivers, scanning, and above all Wifi speed. Still had to do a lot on XP including online work, which was exactly what I was trying to avoid. But again, I learned, one by one the issues were eliminated - or in the Wifi case at least mitigated. In almost all cases, someone in the forum led me forward, got my feedback and then refined their advice.
Newbies, don't underestimate this Forum, it makes the Microsoft 'Help & Support' algorithms and their Community look frankly laughable.

So how far have I come in not quite three months? Well, I have a Linux system that nearly works as I want it. The only things missing are a working OCR, and being able to run my favourite Windows programs (not games) under Wine. But hey, they're all offline stuff, so I can use them on XP without exposing myself to its (possible) growing vulnerability. I must say, though, that I've only been truly happy since I quit Wifi and returned to lightning-fast Ethernet. Yes, happy, I'm actually enjoying my computer work for the first time since all those updates started slowing down my XP boot, years ago.
So finally, huge thanks to all on these forums who got me this far. You know who you are if you happen to read this.

[Maikzu]

Good points from all of you. My answer is it's nice to be in a open community and play around with computers. It's just nice, that's all.

[Spearmint2]

The point is, for a lot of people, Win XP's demise.

And Linux Mint 16 would be good if one could spend more time being productive rather than working at fixing the OS.

Having spent two months 'getting to know' the Linux system, patching pieces of software using a previously unknown intergalactic language, I have two half running computers - one a desktop which has broken a connection to the wireless printer (and a heap more besides), and the other, a netbook that can print wirelessly but can't do Skype or other video / audio, plus a heap more besides.

How can you complain about those problems if you never even asked for help? You have one post in the forums. You never had to ask for help on a Windows computer? As for the wifi printer, if you can use wifi otherwise from your computer, then the problem with that is either your printer, or you. If the netbook works the printer, common sense demands you make comparison between settings in it and the desktop that you have problems with, find out why the one is working, the other isn't. As for video/audio, I run AMD/Radeon chipsets which so many complain about and I have no problem running and converting video in VLC, nor in using "Record My Desktop". There's no shame in asking for help when you need it.

[ColonialJohn]

How can you complain about those problems if you never even asked for help?

Lots of help out there, some of it decades (not quite) old, not all of it helpful or safe (having broken the OS trying out the suggestions).

You never had to ask for help on a Windows computer?

That's right - I never asked for help with Windows. I used the manuals or looked for the answer on the Internet, as I've tried to do with Mint.

[expat_tony]

Well, Colonial John, you're obviously still visiting or you wouldn't have seen spearmint's post.
I'd just like to say that my experience with these forums is completely the opposite of yours. I've got a nice little OS + apps running here and it's thanks largely to the advice of wiser people on the forums. Maybe I have a knack for spotting the non-bullshitters, I don't know. Starting a thread (aka asking for help) has also stood me in good stead. When I've got into problems it's usually from trying to learn from blogs, which do tend to have that hit-or-miss quality which puts you off.

You'll get through the hard times, believe me. Let's face it, your Windows alternative is going to become more and more expensive as they try to recover their losses on Win8. Watch for a cloud-based MS Office for rent in the near future;, cheap at first, but then, like it goes in Rupert Mudoch's Fox empire, the Sky's the limit. Every add-on will cost extra. Not to mention the post-update headaches, the virus/malware risks, and the corporate straitjacket they try to put on their customers.

[Kardosh]

not to say that it never happens, but I've never heard of anyone wanting to run linux apps in windows.

I think OpenOffice and its derivates are used quite often in Windows. I even worked with a publishing house using Oo only. Libre Office was actually the reason I tried to use Linux as my OS - since my main work tool was a Linux app. anyway. And I went to Libre because I did not like the new MSO look and feel and the 2002 version I used till this Spring lost support, thus becoming vulnerable to attacks.

[Kardosh]

I come from Dos/Norton Commander. If you had that (so Total Commander in windows/MC in xNix) you can't even start to begin with the 'explorer' concept from MS

I believe this was the single most difficult change when I switched to Mint from Win: Learning to manage files through Nemo (or whatever it is called). I understood the principle long before switching, Windows use the same in their Explorer (or whatever it is called) but it just seemed unnatural to have to use a mouse to copy/move/delete files. Alt-F2-E-F5-Enter is difficult for my fingers to forget

[Fizzywhiskers]

I run all 3 OSes -- I have a MacBook air, this laptop (HP laptop running Mint 17), and a desktop PC running Windows 7.

I like all 3 platforms in different ways. Linux tends toward a simpler aesthetic that pleases me, I'm an emacs user and it works best on *nix, and I've always liked using the shell. I also really like having a package manager. And a lot of interesting software gets developed for linux first. But things like games aren't as well supported -- although the situation seems to have improved there a lot, not just via Steam but because Wine is so good at running older games (as is dosbox). Hardware support is always iffier (I'm struggling with the synaptics support since upgrading from Mint 16 to 17). My main criticism of Linux distributions is that they are too blase about the inconveniences, but they really are getting better (slowly). I don't think they are going to catch on in the developed world (except amongst developers), though; there just isn't enough carrot. Maybe in the developing world.

Mac has the best complete package: the integration between hardware and software is superior, IMO. And it's a *nix, with a reasonable shell and toolchain but a great UI. However, while there _are_ decent ways to port over Linux tools, they aren't quite as convenient as the real thing. Mac OS doesn't exactly have package management, either, although it has an app store and the OS handles updates to things shipped that way.

Windows is a strange beast. Because it's so popular, it has some fabulous applications (games, but also general tools). For the same reason, it has pretty good hardware support (although the integration is never as tight as on a Mac). Strangely, some Unix-y things (e.g., python programming) can sometimes be easier on Windows because there is no OS dependency -- Windows doesn't care which version of Python you have installed. There are ways of dealing with this in Linux/Unix as well, but I dream of the day when the OS won't expose the things it uses internally -- I shouldn't have to care. On the other hand, Windows doesn't have the same kind of toolchain, and there is no package management at all (well, unless you use Chocolatey).

In daily use, I use Windows at work (because they insist), but mostly use Mint (or some Linux) at home. Mostly it's good enough, and for the few things it can't quite do, there have either been ingenious work-arounds (e.g., Pipelight) or I can use the Mac. But I often think about going back to Windows -- because whatever it lacks, the hardware tends to work better. (My HP struggles with overheating in Linux.) I know that isn't the Linux developer's fault -- the truth is, the hardware manufacturers are privileging support for Windows. Still, it's an issue.