Bianca Observations

Questions about the project and the distribution - obviously no support questions here please

Bianca Observations

Postby ElZorro on Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:26 pm

Hi in Bianca
A:
I cannot find the bash shell, and it seems not installable due to dependency problems.
There is no shell with integrated x, or true root shell---all rather inconvenient.
B:
To me the custom menu system is too large and ugly,
I think I mightl remove the customized settings.
The KDE colour scheme is also a bit garish perhaps biased to Irish greens,, and causes aberrant colour page rendering on Konqueror particularly on Distrowatch..
C:
The root login fetish continues in Bianca, as in all its parents Ubuntu/Kubuntu though easily "fixed" by editing /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc,
Subsequent root password demands as user still mean user password-- somewhat peculiar and less powerful.
The exception is apt-get update which requires at last a real root password!
Cheers
ElZorro :)
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Re: Bianca Observations

Postby scorp123 on Tue May 01, 2007 6:35 am

ElZorro wrote: I cannot find the bash shell, and it seems not installable due to dependency problems.
Nonsense :D

ElZorro wrote: There is no shell with integrated x, or true root shell---all rather inconvenient.
Nonsense :D

ElZorro wrote: To me the custom menu system is too large and ugly,
De gustibus non est disputandum :roll:

ElZorro wrote: The KDE colour scheme is also a bit garish perhaps biased to Irish greens,, and causes aberrant colour page rendering on Konqueror particularly on Distrowatch..
You might want to invest into a new graphics card or check your X.org settings? :wink:

ElZorro wrote: The root login fetish continues in Bianca, as in all its parents Ubuntu/Kubuntu though easily "fixed" by editing /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc,
You're not supposed to login as root into a GUI ... :roll: This is deadly deadly deadly deadly deadly :twisted: Especially for people who don't know what they do :D

ElZorro wrote: Subsequent root password demands as user still mean user password-- somewhat peculiar and less powerful.
You just didn't understand the principle of all this it seems? :wink:

ElZorro wrote: The exception is apt-get update which requires at last a real root password!
Nonsense, same as above :wink: ... The root account is blocked by default on Ubuntu-like systems and the first user registered on the system is considered something similar as an "admin" account; e.g. all root functions ("sudo" / "gksudo" / "kdesu") will ask for this account's password and not root's (direct access to root is blocked per default). Your mentioning of "real root passwords" etc. just demonstrates that you did not understand this at all :wink: The direct access to the "root" account can be enabled again for users who want this, so you could e.g. switch into "root" via the "su -" command.

Login into a GUI as "root" is not suggested, especially not for newbies :twisted: One accidental "drag & drop" in the wrong places and you will understand why I warned you against this :lol:
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Postby clem on Tue May 01, 2007 9:30 am

This is also posted in the wrong sub-forum... mostly general feedback/suggestions and a bit of KDE/KDM in there, I don't see the relation with BETA014 (especially now that the stable version was released)...

I won't go through the content, scorp123 did that better than I would.

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Postby scorp123 on Tue May 01, 2007 11:30 am

clem wrote:This is also posted in the wrong sub-forum... mostly general feedback/suggestions
Topic moved as per your suggestion :wink:
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Re: Bianca Observations

Postby ElZorro on Sun May 20, 2007 9:33 am

This is the usual response, et cetera et cetera but GUI is the future, and on a home system Caveat Emptor!
After all if you really break it you get to keep the two halves, and people must learn.
But true root zealots will always oppose with dire and dreadful forecasts of doom!
"qui nunc it per iter tenebricosum
illuc, unde negant redire quemquam."

to create a root password
enter terminal and

sudo passwd root
Password: = user password
Enter new UNIX password:
Retype new UNIX password:
passwd: password updated successfully

you now have a root password


Vale
El Zorro



scorp123 wrote:
ElZorro wrote: I cannot find the bash shell, and it seems not installable due to dependency problems.
Nonsense :D

ElZorro wrote: There is no shell with integrated x, or true root shell---all rather inconvenient.
Nonsense :D

ElZorro wrote: To me the custom menu system is too large and ugly,
De gustibus non est disputandum :roll:

ElZorro wrote: The KDE colour scheme is also a bit garish perhaps biased to Irish greens,, and causes aberrant colour page rendering on Konqueror particularly on Distrowatch..
You might want to invest into a new graphics card or check your X.org settings? :wink:

ElZorro wrote: The root login fetish continues in Bianca, as in all its parents Ubuntu/Kubuntu though easily "fixed" by editing /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc,
You're not supposed to login as root into a GUI ... :roll: This is deadly deadly deadly deadly deadly :twisted: Especially for people who don't know what they do :D

ElZorro wrote: Subsequent root password demands as user still mean user password-- somewhat peculiar and less powerful.
You just didn't understand the principle of all this it seems? :wink:

ElZorro wrote: The exception is apt-get update which requires at last a real root password!
Nonsense, same as above :wink: ... The root account is blocked by default on Ubuntu-like systems and the first user registered on the system is considered something similar as an "admin" account; e.g. all root functions ("sudo" / "gksudo" / "kdesu") will ask for this account's password and not root's (direct access to root is blocked per default). Your mentioning of "real root passwords" etc. just demonstrates that you did not understand this at all :wink: The direct access to the "root" account can be enabled again for users who want this, so you could e.g. switch into "root" via the "su -" command.

Login into a GUI as "root" is not suggested, especially not for newbies :twisted: One accidental "drag & drop" in the wrong places and you will understand why I warned you against this :lol:
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Re: Bianca Observations

Postby scorp123 on Sun May 20, 2007 2:04 pm

ElZorro wrote: This is the usual response, et cetera et cetera but GUI is the future, and on a home system Caveat Emptor!
GUI or not GUI ... this isn't even the question here! You claimed nonsense such as that there are "limited shells" (you don't seem to know about the "sudo" or "su" commands??) or "no shell with integrated x" ... whatever that was supposed to mean, it just demonstrates you don't understand what X11 ("X Windows") is for, how it works, and that you absolutely can have a shell in your GUI environment (konsole on KDE, gnome-terminal in GNOME, xterm, mlterm, rxvt, wterm, aterm, e-term, and many many others ...).

ElZorro wrote: After all if you really break it you get to keep the two halves, and people must learn.
Well, that's why we have (free) support forums like this one. :wink:

ElZorro wrote: to create a root password enter terminal ...
You don't need that on Ubuntu-based distros :roll: .... That's why direct access to root is disabled and that's why we have the "sudo" command. But of course, if you know what you do, you can enable the root account again. However I would not recommend this to newbies ... :wink:
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Re: Bianca Observations

Postby ElZorro on Tue May 22, 2007 4:40 am

scorp123 wrote:
ElZorro wrote: This is the usual response, et cetera et cetera but GUI is the future, and on a home system Caveat Emptor!
GUI or not GUI ... this isn't even the question here! You claimed nonsense such as that there are "limited shells" (you don't seem to know about the "sudo" or "su" commands??) or "no shell with integrated x" ... whatever that was supposed to mean, it just demonstrates you don't understand what X11 ("X Windows") is for, how it works, and that you absolutely can have a shell in your GUI environment (konsole on KDE, gnome-terminal in GNOME, xterm, mlterm, rxvt, wterm, aterm, e-term, and many many others ...).

ElZorro wrote:-

Yup I know all this,
but if you open a REAL root terminal, the X server is locked under KDE.
e.g.
root@ElZorrot-desktop:/home/ElZorro# kedit
Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server
Xlib: No protocol specified

kedit: cannot connect to X server :0.0


a sudo in user terminal complains bitterly, but still opens an editor like kedit, which works.

e.g.
ElZorro@ElZorro-desktop:~$ sudo kedit
Password:
X Error: BadDevice, invalid or uninitialized input device 169
Major opcode: 145
Minor opcode: 3
Resource id: 0x0
Failed to open device
X Error: BadDevice, invalid or uninitialized input device 169
Major opcode: 145
Minor opcode: 3
Resource id: 0x0
Failed to open device

So a bit inane to a Debian user, but part of the zealot stuff in (K)ubuntu, but so be it for now.
Vincit qui se vincit!
Cheers
El Zorro :D
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Postby clem on Tue May 22, 2007 4:57 am

If you su into a different account you're moving away from your DISPLAY. You then have to allow other users to use your display (xhost +) and set the display for the new user (export DISPLAY=whatever_display you were using). This has been like that since Unix, nothing new in there.. and to tell you the truth, I always thought it was a pain. Sudo is much more user-friendly than a root session, and if you don't need file redirections and so on, you're more than welcome to use sudo instead of su.

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Postby Husse on Tue May 22, 2007 9:02 am

X Error: BadDevice, invalid or uninitialized input device 169
Major opcode: 145
Minor opcode: 3
Resource id: 0x0
Failed to open device
X Error: BadDevice, invalid or uninitialized input device 169
Major opcode: 145
Minor opcode: 3
Resource id: 0x0
Failed to open device
I get this too - seems like a bug to me - perhaps Clem or Scorp can give some insight
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Re: Bianca Observations

Postby scorp123 on Tue May 22, 2007 9:46 am

ElZorro wrote: Yup I know all this,
but if you open a REAL root terminal, the X server is locked under KDE.
Of course it is :D This is not a bug, this is supposed to be the standard behaviour of X11 on any UNIX-like OS :wink: Some distros such as OpenSUSE will sort of "help" you with this and allow access to your X-Server nontheless, but the standard is that the display should be locked by whoever is using it.

Workaround:

1. Use "sudo". You don't need a "full" root shell. If you really really need one: "sudo su -" and voila, everything just works.

2. If you really use "su -" .... use this command sequence:
Code: Select all
xhost +localhost
su -
export DISPLAY=localhost:0.0
And from here onwards it should work. Again, this is X11 standard behaviour on any decent UNIX-like OS! :D

3. Use "ssh" with "-X" parameter:
Code: Select all
ssh -X root@localhost
Please note that there are plenty of security implications if you install SSH and if you allow root logins! You really really have to know what you do here!

ElZorro wrote: X Error
Looks like some minor error messages. If the program you want to run indeed opens and works OK despite this error message it's probably meaningless and you can ignore this I suppose? Do you have any entries in /var/log/messages or any other log there? Maybe the system log has more details on what exactly failed. Maybe it's just some silly file permission which is not 100% correctly set. But the fact that the program nontheless opens and works tells me that this must be something minor.

Best Regards!
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Postby clem on Tue May 22, 2007 7:10 pm

Husse: This is due to some tactile device configuration (touch screens and all I think) in your xorg.conf. Nothing to worry about.. if the messages annoy you you can remove the corresponding entries in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.

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Postby Husse on Wed May 23, 2007 6:42 am

@ clem
I know it has to do with some touchpad or the like, but ElZorro put some weight to it and I've answered other posts complaining about this behavior in KDE. This is from a fresh install - no extra configuration. You'd think it should not give errors and it does not in gnome, so it is a minor bug :)
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Postby scorp123 on Wed May 23, 2007 7:04 am

Husse wrote:I've answered other posts complaining about this behavior in KDE. This is from a fresh install - no extra configuration. You'd think it should not give errors and it does not in gnome, so it is a minor bug :)
Not necessarily a "bug" ... KDE has plenty of background tasks and sockets and pipes running. Just start KDE and then take a look into your /tmp directory ... You will see tons of files that KDE put there because it's many background processes need to communicate with each other. And then there is more stuff in your ~/.kde directory which points to even more stuff in places such as /var/tmp/ and what not. So chances are that when you switch users in a KDE session the permissions to some of that stuff all of a sudden isn't "correct" for the user account you switched into; and therefore you get those minor error messages in KDE but not in GNOME.

As I said in my previous post ... It's probably safe to ignore those minor error messages for as long as the program you wanted to start really does start.
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