Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby dikdirk on Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:43 am

I'm worried about the possible switch to Debian.... I mean, Ubuntu is the biggest distribution and that's for reason! The main arguments I read are: I don't like unity and Debian is so much faster than Ubuntu.. But if Debian is so much better, why is Ubuntu a much more used distribution than Debian?

And furthermore, Linux mint could really add to ubuntu by having a ubuntu based distribution not using unity!
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby craig10x on Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:40 pm

In fact, in Mint 11 main edition, Clem says he will not be using unity but will have gnome3....As far as Mint going Debian...actually Ubuntu is Debian with modifications...Mint going Debian simply means eliminating the "middle man" :wink:

Of course, then that means the developer (in this case Clem and the team) have to make their own modifications to smooth and enhance Debian...which is exactly what they did and are continuing to do even further....

For example: Debian normally has poor font rendering, so Clem added in the ubuntu patching and now LMDE looks as good as ubuntu and ubuntu based distros like mint main edition...

LMDE doesn't have an easy driver installer like Ubuntu and mint main, so Ikey is working on adding that as well, more newbie friendly installer options...etc etc...

Another advantage of going direct debian testing is LMDE is a rolling distro so you don't need to re-install every 6 months...bug fixes, newer versions of applications and other updates all come to you automatically....and whatever new features Mint 11 has, will be sent over to LMDE as well, so you even get those without re-installing! :)
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby AlbertP on Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:43 pm

I have said it in the chat once: many people don't like Debian as a base. Isn't there another great distro we can base Mint on? Something as Mandriva (or one of its forks), openSUSE?
Note that I have not used these distributions. Anyone another suggestion for a Linux distro to base Mint upon?
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby Kendall on Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:36 pm

Mint Fluxbox will be rebased on Debian and from the looks of the testing page on the community site it seems Xfce will be heading in that direction as well.
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby craig10x on Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:42 pm

AlbertP wrote:I have said it in the chat once: many people don't like Debian as a base. Isn't there another great distro we can base Mint on? Something as Mandriva (or one of its forks), openSUSE?
Note that I have not used these distributions. Anyone another suggestion for a Linux distro to base Mint upon?


I think you are getting a little confused...if Mint did that it would simply be going to another "middle man" Mandriva and Suse are rpm distros based on Red Hat i believe...how is that better?

Once again, Ubuntu IS based on Debian...i think they take a snapshot of debian unstable and then customize it and start fixing bugs...which i guess is why many have said that Debian Testing is generally more stable then any Ubuntu RELEASE :lol:

Nice to hear from Kendall on the subject too...i kind of thought that would be the direction that Mint is going... :wink:
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby gorfou on Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:55 pm

Imho, mint should continue to be debian AND ubuntu based, or more exactly, keeping to have one stable (testing) rolling-release and one install&throwaway every 6 months, whatever the base distro.

The point is, i fear that by adding too much "Linux Mint FlavourX", the community crumbles. And I don't want that to happen. But well, I might be thinking too much.
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby rivenathos on Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:15 pm

For me, Debian-based works much better than Ubuntu-based. LMDE is great, and I am looking forward to Fluxbox and Xfce editions based on Debian.
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby Robin on Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:15 am

Debian is not as simple and easy for non-geeky kids, but Ubuntu is simple enough even for me, lol. And the people in Debian forums don't like kids. :(

Ubuntu "tamed" Debian and simplified it. I'll always be grateful!

Now that said though, I think that in time, Debian will eventually be as easy to use as Ubuntu is, and probably more efficiently so because Ubuntu tries to be "all things to all users."

I'm an Xfce fan and I think that a Debian-based Xfce Mint would be radically awesome and pro'lly faster than Xubuntu-based Mint Xfce because of the way Xubuntu "fixes" Debian. I'm looking forward to seeing that! I also think some of that work has already been done by the awesome wizardry of Crunchbang Statler's developer.

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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby MALsPa on Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:25 am

Robin wrote:Debian is not as simple and easy for non-geeky kids, but Ubuntu is simple enough even for me, lol. And the people in Debian forums don't like kids. :(


Yeah, I've noticed that. Almost seems like they're shooting themselves in the foot with that kind of attitude, sometimes.

Robin wrote:I'm an Xfce fan and I think that a Debian-based Xfce Mint would be radically awesome and pro'lly faster than Xubuntu-based Mint Xfce because of the way Xubuntu "fixes" Debian.


A friend of mine uses the Xfce version of Debian and simply loves it. I don't think you'd have any problem with that, at this point. I'm not sure if it a Debian-based Xfce Mint would be any better than that; my friend uses Testing.
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby edwardr on Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:10 am

A question on Debian based Mint. I understand that the Debian based Mint distro is a rolling release and that updates will be sent down periodically. When Debian Mint first came out last year, I installed it on my main laptop. I had a devil of a time getting everything working (wireless, sound etc.), and then a week later an update broke my sound and I couldn't fix it. Frustrated, I went back to Mint 9 XFCE, which works great on my computer.

So my question is: If I install Mint Debian, but then switch the repos to stable, will I still get updates that are likely to break my system, or will the updates be more benign, or will there be updates at all?

thanks!
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby TBABill on Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:58 am

That's kind of a tricky question. The only reason you can still do that now is there has been no new/current iso released with all the Wheezy files in testing. So you are basically installing Squeeze when you run the iso, then immediately upgrading to Wheezy when you update the system. What you can do is, like you said, change repos to stable/Squeeze immediately after installing but BEFORE running any updates. That will keep you with squeeze and you won't get any radical changes, just regular security updates and bug fixes. But if a new iso is released it'll most likely be Wheezy based, which is the current testing version, so you may face those issues you worried about if you install a later-dated iso. I haven't seen any talk about a new iso release, however, so for now you'd be fine installing, changing repos and then updating...and you'd be on Debian Stable until you update the repos to another version.
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby edwardr on Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:30 am

Thanks TRABill
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby AlbertP on Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:01 pm

What would be ideal is an option in the installer to choose between Stable, Testing, Unstable, Squeeze and Wheezy.
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby asymmetros on Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:21 pm

What would be ideal is an option in the installer to choose between Stable, Testing, Unstable, Squeeze and Wheezy.


A LMDE iso would be helpful. Otherwise; -your choice now is to install from the 2011-01 snapshot and then change immediately the sources to squeeze: you will be about a month behind the February's Stable squeeze. But you won't have the option for Xfce or Fluxbox, unless you install them from synaptic. And also, that iso must be available from the very next months.

On the other side, an "unstable" snapshot is not so much needed. Just change testing>unstable.

I do not find LMDE 's installer difficult or complicated -and i am using Linux for less than a year. My only objection is that after the installation, i have to remove a ton of programs that i do not care about: rhythmbox, tomboy notes, thunderbird, gnome-mplayer, gedit and so on.

Anyway, Mint's devs are doing an excellent job and i am quite sure that they will manage to deal with all problems in order to offer an Debian based Mint as polished and "user-friendly" :mrgreen:
as Julia or Isadora is. "Debianised" a bit some Mint tools, Mint update for example. And let Ubuntu follow it's uniq(u)e way.
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby tatsujin79 on Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:24 pm

Personally, when it comes down to it it really doesn't matter to me. I'll support whatever dicision is made as long as its made for the good of the project and community as a whole. I do like the idea of having one debian (testing) and one ubuntu (stable) type of releases. All I really want to know however is if mint is heading the way of debian should I go ahead and switch now (thinking about it anyway now that i found my 4gb flash drive) and just get it over with?
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby vincent on Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:22 pm

tatsujin79 wrote:Personally, when it comes down to it it really doesn't matter to me.


I'll echo this sentiment. I think Clem and co. know what they're doing with Mint, and I'm inclined to believe that they'll make the best decision themselves as to Mint's overall direction, be it Debian-based, Ubuntu-based, or both.

It doesn't affect me personally though, anyways; I've used pure Debian (testing) for several months now, and I'm sticking with Debian no matter which direction Ubuntu or Mint take. My distro-hopping days are pretty much over. :D
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby AlbertP on Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:44 am

I will keep using an Ubuntu-based Mint as long as LMDE does not have apt-get build-dep and PPA's from Launchpad.
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby LongRider on Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:19 pm

I would love to see the mint team focus more on LMDE version(s). I never really cared much for Ubuntu, but I liked what Mint dev's did with it so I stuck with it. IMHO - Canonical is heading down the wrong path. The ongoing problems with upstart, bugs listed in Launchpad for years, etc, etc. Its bringing back nightmares of the old Win95 and OS/2 days. Until Mint came out with the LMDE version, I was about to throw in the towel and go back to an RPM version, or an independent distro. Plain Debian never quite did it for me either, but I have high hopes that the LM team will continue to work its magic as they have in the past. Plus the folks that help here in these forums are outstanding, much better than any I have seen over the years.

Just my 2 cents....
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby Arenalgarden on Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:21 pm

Robin wrote:Debian is not as simple and easy for non-geeky kids, but Ubuntu is simple enough even for me, lol. And the people in Debian forums don't like kids. :(

Ubuntu "tamed" Debian and simplified it. I'll always be grateful!

Now that said though, I think that in time, Debian will eventually be as easy to use as Ubuntu is, and probably more efficiently so because Ubuntu tries to be "all things to all users."

I'm an Xfce fan and I think that a Debian-based Xfce Mint would be radically awesome and pro'lly faster than Xubuntu-based Mint Xfce because of the way Xubuntu "fixes" Debian. I'm looking forward to seeing that! I also think some of that work has already been done by the awesome wizardry of Crunchbang Statler's developer.

-Robin,
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living in an 18-wheeler,
travelling with Papa and home schooling ('cept "home" is a big rig)

LOL. Robin. Don't pay attention to the............ummmmmm....chicken beak heads over at Deb.org.
The folks over here have a lot of respect for you.
Send Clem a PM and give the old PWEEEEEEEEZE Get the XFCE Debian Mint in his schedule.
It is surely on the way. Be patient.
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Re: Future of Mint: Ubuntu or Debian Based

Postby antiquexray on Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:39 am

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this posting. Now, how about my 2 cents :)

If I were to guess, predict, had a knife put to my throat, etc., I'd guess that moving Mint to a debian based distro has been kicked around quite a bit. I base this on the fact that many don't like the direction Ubuntu is going, how stable debian can be, and the rolling updates.

My very first distro was Ubuntu. I did a lot of distro hopping until I found, and fell in love with Linux Mint, almost at the very beginning. I've experiemented with other distros since, but always come right back to Mint.

My experimentation has likewise included LMDE. I've tried and tried to be happy with it and am currently running it on 2 of my netbooks. However, because of the problems I have had with VLC, broken packages, LibreOffice, etc., I'm going to reload the Ubuntu based Mint back onto my netbooks.

I am a huge proponant of linux in general, Mint in particular, and do my best to spread the word of its superiority. But, I'm encountering difficulties selling my case inpart with the aforementioned problems. When these problems are resolved, which I'm confident they will be, I'll give LMDE another try...I hope it's soon. Thanks.
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