The stupid question....

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The stupid question....

Postby deuZige on Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:31 pm

Ok i'm surprised. Either i've lost my touch @ finding stuff on the net or i'm actually wondering something that for me is the logical firtst question with 90% of the Linux distributions out there these days..... I've googled the question and tried some other search methods but i found the question asked only once or twice. The question is:

Linux Mint is based on Sebian.... Why should i use Linux Mint and not the origional?

I know many of you will say that the prototype is never as good as the finished product but come on.... the origionals in this case are a heck of a lot of good and serious developers coders and other skilled people. They're not sitting on their hands after releasing a new version of their distro.

So that answer just doesn't cut it for me, and here i am, asking the question in relation to Mint. What makes Mint better than the lastest release of Debian? Is it because Mint is "Debian and Ubuntu" based?

That has an odd ring to it. It sounds to me like inviting trouble..... I've noticed that, when i tried Ubuntu, trying out Debian packages can really lead to major headaches.
This is my fourth "trying Linux to see if it can really beat Windows" phase since i've been into computers. I'm basicly a bit of a gamer. Loving stuff like CoD BO or Battlefield Bad Company 2 but allso able to spend up to 20 hours straight locked into one single game of Multiplayer Civilization V,

But besides that, and lately more than gaming, i;m basically dabbling about in developement environments, "internet radio broadcasting" (mixing mp3z and blabbering about nothing anyone would want to hear) and i'm allso fond of watching, playing, reading, discussing and yes even writing Startrek, It's that latter part of my personality that has allways drawn me to anything not Microsoft. I started on the Commodore OS's of the VIC20m C16, C64, C128, Amiga Os, IBM DOS, MSDOS and on to where everybodyon the planet is weather they like it or not: WINDOWS! But the truth is... and here's the part where i commit suicide on a linux forum, Linux has never come close to Windows in being the best OS out there. Oh sure, it's allways been safer but hey, Terrorist OS v911 is safer to! Because nobody uses it. And lets face it, there've allmost allways been much much more people using Windows than there were Linux. So ofcourse if you want your virus or other "malicious" software to reach as many people as possible, you soon decide to attack Windows billions over the Linux millions.

So the first time i tried Linux there wasn't even anything like a GUI, Just a prompt. As the commands were completely different from the DOS ones, and far to complicated looking to me, that Linux period was over quickly. The other tries were with graphical deskops and i did notice a lot of progress, moving forward. In the end, it was Ubuntu 7 i think, i was beginning to think that Linux might have finally done it. It looked good, worked kind of intuitive and did everything Windows could do. I was very pleased... at first... Then i noticed somethings that had plagued my earlier tries as well but now were even more frustrating somehow.

[list=]Installing software. It was, is and i'm affraid allways will be a nightmare most of the time![/list]
[list=]Having to choose between KDE and Gnome or another desktop environment sucks! It's something that keeps on haunting you long after you chose when you see that one app you realy like but turns out to be fot the desktop you DIDNT choose. :S [list=]
[list=]Maybe its just because it all done by vaulenteers but i've never seen a Linux game not running under Wine that could match its Windows contemporaries for graphics, sound and overall quality[/list]

Allso the fact that evey piece of software in Linux "hangs" on other pieces of software. I mean, when you finally solve a configure problem after downing and unzipping something you want to install, you're faced with another one, eaqually irritating to solve and 90% of the times gets solved by downloading libz, headerz, or pointing some config or ini file to the right version of the libz the compiirs gonna need.

I mean... come on.... put that next to the Windows binaries and their ease of installing... I'll take the Windows way everytime. Doubleclick, [Enter] [Enter] [Enter]
And one of the other reasons Windows has allways beaten Linux in the past:

Windows usually installs and runs correctly on 90% of the hardware one can connect to an intel architecture processor controlled device. Just throw in the dc and the installer goes. Most of the hardwar gets autodiscovered and installed. The rest gets distributed in .exe binaries that can go the Doubleclick, [Enter] [Enter] [Enter]n with.....

I don't know about the linux distro's these days but hopefully that has improved much! Nothingmore irritating than having to compile a driver with modifications because the binaries weren't for your distro version or something.

But still, here i am again, ready to give the Linux community anotherr chance to win me over. I've got me a simple old dell laptop which i've been installing with a different Linux distro for days now. I've tried:

Ubuntu 10
SLax (custom image from their imagebulder.
Mandrake
Fedora
Linux Mint

and now i'm in doubt about weather i should attempt Linux Mint 10 Gnome (or standard) and downloading the latest Debian version.
The latter one has the best and most reliable way for installing new software. The .deb packages work 98% of the time once you get the repositior thing worked out.

The question was and still is: Why should i choose Linux Mint instead of Debian?
And what is the best way to go about making sure the compilers and ide's and so on are installed and configured?
Is there a program that does something like for example the cccleaner? Checks out the windows configuration, removes errors and cleans out the drives from files you'ds nog gonna use?

Come on people, turn me over to the Penguin side! :twisted:
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby Beardedragon on Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:00 pm

deuZige wrote: The question is:

Linux Mint is based on Sebian.... Why should i use Linux Mint and not the origional?

:

First statement says it all. Forget the misspelling of Debian. Either way you are incorrect. Everything in Linux comes from something else, including Linux itself which Linus Torvalds got from Unix. That said most of them come from one or two major versions, Debian which lead to Ubuntu as well as Mint which now is using both Ubuntu and Pure Debian for different DEs. Red Hat has a big following and so do some others. You are free to use the originals but you will find the main differences in the installers and the packages contained therein. Not all versions are so kind with doing the dirty work for you, like partitioning. I'll leave this to others to explain the hardcore differences.
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby Midnighter on Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:26 pm

"Why should i choose Linux Mint instead of Debian?"


Because you like it, and would prefer a better "out of the box" experience. By all means, use Debian if you prefer. Quite like it myself. But Mint gets you up and running quicker (or, straight away) compared to Debian. Your choice. :)
If you accept - and I do - that freedom of speech is important, then you are going to have to defend the indefensible. That means you are going to be defending the right of people to read, or to write, or to say, what you don't say or like or want said.
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby toad on Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:55 pm

You want to get clued up on various distros. I suggest you get yourself a virtual environment set up and try installing Debian and see how it goes and do the same for Mint.

There is, of course, always ArchLinux for the inquisitive tinkerer :twisted:
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby Beardedragon on Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:18 pm

toad wrote:You want to get clued up on various distros. I suggest you get yourself a virtual environment set up and try installing Debian and see how it goes and do the same for Mint.

There is, of course, always ArchLinux for the inquisitive tinkerer :twisted:

OR: Linux from scratch. LOL
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby kvv on Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:05 am

The question was and still is: Why should i choose Linux Mint instead of Debian?
And what is the best way to go about making sure the compilers and ide's and so on are installed and configured?
Is there a program that does something like for example the cccleaner? Checks out the windows configuration, removes errors and cleans out the drives from files you'ds nog gonna use?


Debian is much more stable, but the software is like two years old, and it changes slowly. Linux Mint (main edition) is more beautiful out of the box, you get access to latest software and Ubuntu's PPAs (which is a big deal).

compilers: sudo apt-get build-essential for GCC. Downloading JDK from Oracle website is easy enough. There are tons of IDEs out there, some of them in Mint's repository itself. Except Visual Studio, you can use the same stuff you use in Windows for most cases.

ccleaner: Not that I know of, sorry. But the fact that there is no popular software for that probably means that it's not as important in Linux. But then I am not a Linux veteran like you, so don't trust my word for it. :) The package manager takes care of dependencies, so you are not going to have a problem installing any application. And pretty sure that the package manager also removes the unneeded dependencies when you uninstall something. Building from source can be a big pain though, because you will have to scourge through the makefiles and config files to resolve dependency paths.
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby Midnighter on Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:50 pm

kvv wrote:
Debian is much more stable, but the software is like two years old, and it changes slowly.Building from source can be a big pain though, because you will have to scourge through the makefiles and config files to resolve dependency paths.



Debian Squeeze is not 2 years old.
If you accept - and I do - that freedom of speech is important, then you are going to have to defend the indefensible. That means you are going to be defending the right of people to read, or to write, or to say, what you don't say or like or want said.
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby Beardedragon on Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:18 pm

Midnighter wrote:
kvv wrote:
Debian is much more stable, but the software is like two years old, and it changes slowly.Building from source can be a big pain though, because you will have to scourge through the makefiles and config files to resolve dependency paths.



Debian Squeeze is not 2 years old.

Not until July 30th.
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby tdockery97 on Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:36 pm

While you are trying out various distros, keep in mind that installing them in a virtual environment (like Virtualbox) is not the same as installing on the hard drive. An operating system running in a virtual environment is leeching off the drivers of the host, so it appears everything works out of the box. Once on the hard drive, you could find that you have missing drivers for the hardware it is running on.

Best of luck finding your dream Linux distro. I've found mine.
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby Midnighter on Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:28 pm

Beardedragon wrote:
Midnighter wrote:
kvv wrote:
Debian is much more stable, but the software is like two years old, and it changes slowly.Building from source can be a big pain though, because you will have to scourge through the makefiles and config files to resolve dependency paths.



Debian Squeeze is not 2 years old.

Not until July 30th.



Since Debian Squeeze was only released on February 6, 2011, I have no idea how you reached that conclusion.
If you accept - and I do - that freedom of speech is important, then you are going to have to defend the indefensible. That means you are going to be defending the right of people to read, or to write, or to say, what you don't say or like or want said.
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby monkeyboy on Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:56 pm

deuZige wrote:Ok i'm surprised. Either i've lost my touch @ finding stuff on the net or i'm actually wondering something that for me is the logical firtst question with 90% of the Linux distributions out there these days..... I've googled the question and tried some other search methods but i found the question asked only once or twice. The question is:


Yep you lost it, I used Google and got over 300,000 hits for LMDE vs Mint.
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby Beardedragon on Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:21 am

Midnighter wrote:

Since Debian Squeeze was only released on February 6, 2011, I have no idea how you reached that conclusion.

Oh I don't know, maybe from something like this quote from the following URL:
April 4, 2010 1:36 PM
Kevin Benko said:

I've been using Debian exclusively since Woody. I had also used Red Hat, (pre-Novell) SUSE, and Slackware (I also used Ubuntu for about a day or so. For me, I finally stuck with Debian for the very same reason many people dislike Debian-- the lack of a definite release cycle.

I've been running the testing branch, with some packages from the unstable branch, since sarge (and sarge's testing branch was etch). The names stable/testing/unstable tend to bother some people (my wife, for example) and these people tend to run stable when they probably would be happier running testing.

In my opinion, the Debian testing branch, when it isn't frozen due to an impending release of the new stable, is a continuously updated Linux operating system.

Hell, I've been running Squeeze since February 2009, so it's not such a big deal for me. If the general Debian user really want's Squeeze now.... then a simple addition to the /etc/apt/sources.list file will give it to them.

I run Debian testing/unstable branch, I don't need no stinkin' releases!!!

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Re: The stupid question....

Postby Midnighter on Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:32 pm

Yes, he was running Squeeze before it became stable. And we're obviously talking about Stable, I thought it was pretty damn clear. Dude, quit while you're behind. :)
If you accept - and I do - that freedom of speech is important, then you are going to have to defend the indefensible. That means you are going to be defending the right of people to read, or to write, or to say, what you don't say or like or want said.
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby toad on Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:53 am

Midnighter wrote:Yes, he was running Squeeze before it became stable. And we're obviously talking about Stable, I thought it was pretty damn clear. Dude, quit while you're behind. :)

Hey, ease up, the both of you.

The point is made: Squeeze was released only recently under stable but was called the same under testing where it was filed on and further upstream where it took shape in the first place. A perfect example of how Debian handles releases.

Hope that clears things up on this front although I'm not sure how much this helps the OP.
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby Beardedragon on Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:33 pm

Midnighter wrote:Yes, he was running Squeeze before it became stable. And we're obviously talking about Stable, I thought it was pretty damn clear. Dude, quit while you're behind. :)

Since Debian Squeeze was only released on February 6, 2011, I have no idea how you reached that conclusion.

I'm not taking things out of context, you never said "STABLE" until after the fact. Choose your words, Dud...
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby Midnighter on Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:40 pm

*sigh* Quit grasping at straws "dud". You were the one claiming Squeeze ran 2 year old software. You were wrong. The end. Jeez, just quit while you're behind already, and quit looking for excuses. Squeeze was a rolling release model at the time you describe, so the software was not "frozen", and NOT 2 years old. You were wrong, deal with it. Choose your words better "dud". You were wrong, no matter which way you twist and turn. Just accept it. :)
If you accept - and I do - that freedom of speech is important, then you are going to have to defend the indefensible. That means you are going to be defending the right of people to read, or to write, or to say, what you don't say or like or want said.
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby Beardedragon on Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:54 am

Midnighter wrote:*sigh* Quit grasping at straws "dud". You were the one claiming Squeeze ran 2 year old software. You were wrong. The end. Jeez, just quit while you're behind already, and quit looking for excuses. Squeeze was a rolling release model at the time you describe, so the software was not "frozen", and NOT 2 years old. You were wrong, deal with it. Choose your words better "dud". You were wrong, no matter which way you twist and turn. Just accept it. :)

Like I say, get your facts straight.

kvv wrote:
Debian is much more stable, but the software is like two years old, and it changes slowly. Linux Mint (main edition) is more beautiful out of the box, you get access to latest software and Ubuntu's PPAs (which is a big deal).


Not I. Read this thread, it is a tool for learning. The phrase I was quoting was "Choose your words wisely." I left off the last word, you have no idea of it's concept.
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby Midnighter on Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:23 pm

Dude, you claimed software in Squeeze was 2 years old. You are wrong. No amount of dodging and weaving will change that. Jeez, anyone with an ounce of sense can tell the difference. But hey, keep on being in denial. It doesn't change facts. :)
If you accept - and I do - that freedom of speech is important, then you are going to have to defend the indefensible. That means you are going to be defending the right of people to read, or to write, or to say, what you don't say or like or want said.
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby libssd on Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:40 pm

deuZige wrote:Linux Mint is based on [D]ebian.... Why should i use Linux Mint and not the origional?

Best of both worlds: http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php
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Re: The stupid question....

Postby grey1960envoy on Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:00 pm

Beardedragon wrote:
toad wrote:You want to get clued up on various distros. I suggest you get yourself a virtual environment set up and try installing Debian and see how it goes and do the same for Mint.

There is, of course, always ArchLinux for the inquisitive tinkerer :twisted:

OR: Linux from scratch. LOL


Another one might be Gentoo (I have nightmares over this one :lol:
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