Why bother with Mint 12?

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Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby Anomaly on Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:56 am

What is the point of a Mint user updating to Mint 12? From what I have been reading Cinnamon is probably going to be the deafult DE for Mint 13 and looks and works very similar to Mint 11 and previous versions of Mint. Why release a Mint 12 with a Gnome 3 Shell DE that is totaly different from Mint 11 and what Mint 13 wil be like? It makes more sense to continue using Mint 11 interface for 12 and then move to Cinnamon for Mint 13 when it comes out. Mint 12 just seems to be pointless as it is.

I can see many Mint users being lost when they start using Mint 12. They won't get any help from the user guide since there isn't one for Mint 12. The link on the welcome page leads to the user guide for Mint 11 and thats usless for Gnome 3 Shell Mint 12.

I like Gnome 3 Shell. I use it on Ubuntu instead of Unity so I haven't had any problems adjusting on Mint 12 but it seems out of place when you consider what Mint 11 was like and what Mint 13 will probably be like. In a few years when you look back at the prevoius releases Mint 12 will look like an odd ball release imo.
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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby bimsebasse on Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:30 am

Who are you arguing with? Why are you interested in getting people not to try Mint 12 as it has nothing to do with you? Are you bothering with Pepsi? Because I don't think you should, I prefer Coke and I want you to prefer it too!
Thank you for this thread. That’s all I can say. You most definitely have made this forum into something special. You clearly know what you are doing, you’ve covered so many bases. Thanks!
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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby Anomaly on Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:44 am

bimsebasse wrote:Who are you arguing with? Why are you interested in getting people not to try Mint 12 as it has nothing to do with you? Are you bothering with Pepsi? Because I don't think you should, I prefer Coke and I want you to prefer it too!


I'm not arguing with anybody. I'm not interested in getting people to not try Mint12. I love Mint. I'm just wondering if anybody else is looking at Mint 12 and thinking the same things as me.
Last edited by Anomaly on Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby bimsebasse on Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:05 am

It's definitely a transition release but I doubt skipping a release would have been a good idea. It's also pretty successful for those many of us who use and like Gnome Shell, and it eventually led to the creation of Cinnamon which seems to have a bright future ahead of it.
Thank you for this thread. That’s all I can say. You most definitely have made this forum into something special. You clearly know what you are doing, you’ve covered so many bases. Thanks!
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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby KBD47 on Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:45 pm

bimsebasse is correct, without Mint 12 we would not likely have the Cinnamon desktop. Mint 12 allowed us all to experiment a bit with desktops and come to some conclusions and give Clem and his team feedback.
Just as a release Mint 12 is solid, at least for me. You can stick whatever desktop you want on it, and out of the box you have: MATE (old gnome), MGSE shell extensions, remove everything and you have Gnome Shell. Cinnamon is easy to install as well.
I would label it more as unique in the Linux world than odd, it is a multiple choice desktop Linux release.
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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby craig10x on Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:55 pm

And by introducing Cinnamon as an option for mint 12, it's allowing Clem to continue it's development while at the same time getting very useful feedback from the community as to any bugs, feature improvements that would help, etc...so that way by the time Mint 13 comes out Cinnamon should be fairly polished...
Meanwhile, it gives those that have it running on Mint 12 the ability to use it as their desktop environment and enjoy the improvements as each new version is sent down through the update manager :)
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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby Lumikki on Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:22 pm

You can't allways make perfect steps when design new stuff, but some miss steps provides also a lot of information too. In Mint 12 Cinnamon and MGSE case, it was timing. Cinnamon game later than Mint 12 release.

We people are different and we don't allways like the same stuff. Some like more old ways, some new ways, some something else. Hole idea about different desktops and distributions is about finding what you self like. Do you really think that older Mint desktop is better for new Mint user like me, who started to use Linux desktops start of this year. Because there is big different what someone else like and what you self like. I have no past "experience" from older Linux Mints, so I have no "expetations" or "burden" by older versions. Could older Mint be better for me, maybe? But what's the point, I started with Mint 12 gnome and it was fine. Now I run Mint 12 Cinnamon and I like it even more. Mint 13 will have Cinnamon as default, lucky for me. Why learn gnome 2 desktop and when there is no future for it anyway. Sooner or later people have to move forward, it's just a question where and when. That timing and choice depences everyone own needs.
Last edited by Lumikki on Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby MALsPa on Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:23 pm

I understand what Anomaly's getting at, though. Skipping Mint 12 and waiting for Mint 13 would be a good approach for a lot of people. As a "transition release," Mint 12 seems important for Mint, but not necessarily so for the user.
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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby Lumikki on Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:36 pm

MALsPa wrote:I understand what Anomaly's getting at, though. Skipping Mint 12 and waiting for Mint 13 would be a good approach for a lot of people. As a "transition release," Mint 12 seems important for Mint, but not necessarily so for the user.

Yes, for those who started Mint use before Mint 12. Skiping MInt 12 could be actual good option. Allows Gnome 3, Cinnamon mature more and next Mint 13 is also LTS version.

How ever, those users who started with Mint 12 with cinnamon desktop? For them it's perfect timing too. Because they have no other experience from past. So, they learn the Cinnamon ways from start.
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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby outfieldgrass on Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:02 pm

MALsPa wrote:I understand what Anomaly's getting at, though. Skipping Mint 12 and waiting for Mint 13 would be a good approach for a lot of people. As a "transition release," Mint 12 seems important for Mint, but not necessarily so for the user.


I have to agree with this. As a new full time user it was a shock to start using both Linux Mint and Ubuntu 11.10 with Gnome 3 and Unity. It seems that starting with Linux Mint 11 might have been the easiest option for a new user. I had a bit of experience with Linux from college but for people coming straight from Windows it seems an immature Gnome 3 is a poor offering for that new user.

Its needed for the long term progress of Linux Mint though. That I agree with as well. Lots of good is coming out of the release, even if its not a favorite of the Linux Mint veterans.
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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby monkeyboy on Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:45 pm

The past, present and future of Mint belongs to the people who do the work. So If the developers decided to do M12 that is enough of a reason for me. As a consumer I can either accept their efforts for what they are or vote with my feet. I used M12 for a bit and decided I wanted something else so I moved the daily machine to another distro but I have high hopes for the next release. Enjoy
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Re: Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby outfieldgrass on Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:28 pm

monkeyboy wrote:The past, present and future of Mint belongs to the people who do the work. So If the developers decided to do M12 that is enough of a reason for me. As a consumer I can either accept their efforts for what they are or vote with my feet. I used M12 for a bit and decided I wanted something else so I moved the daily machine to another distro but I have high hopes for the next release. Enjoy


I agree 100%

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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby bimsebasse on Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:55 pm

They had to put out a Mint release 3 months ago, they couldn't just have stuck with the discontinued Gnome 2 environment or given up because the new Gnome desktop was different. Though Gnome Shell ultimately proved too different from what the devs look for, the MGSE was an admirable compromise and has impressed many reviewers and kept Mint's popularity steadily growing.

There also seems to be something of an upgrade craze going on. If you're on Mint 11, 10, 9, and it works perfectly for you, stay! No reason to jump ship before Mint's relationship with Gnome 3 has fully matured (I'm guessing already mature enough by Mint 13).
Thank you for this thread. That’s all I can say. You most definitely have made this forum into something special. You clearly know what you are doing, you’ve covered so many bases. Thanks!
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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby Aging Technogeek on Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:23 pm

For myself, I am glad Mint 12 was released with the Gnome 3 desktop. I feel strongly that, by learning to use Gnome 3 to best advantage (making it work as much as possible like Gnome2) I have learned a great deal more about how the desktop works and how Linux works and any learning experience is, at bottom, a positive thing.

If Mint 13 comes out with the Cinnamon desktop as default, I will learn the ins and outs of Cinnamon; and it will be easier because of my knowledge of Gnome 3, Cinnamon's base.

If Cinnamon is not ready and Mint 13 is released with a Gnome 3 desktop, I will have gained a leg up by learning Gnome 3 on Mint 12.

Too many people, in my estimation, are afraid of new and different things. This can be a real problem because most of life's greatest learning opportunities are tied to new and different experiences. Embrace the new. Cherish the different. These are the best teachers.
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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby MALsPa on Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:44 pm

Aging Technogeek wrote:Too many people, in my estimation, are afraid of new and different things. This can be a real problem because most of life's greatest learning opportunities are tied to new and different experiences. Embrace the new. Cherish the different. These are the best teachers.


+1
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Re: Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby outfieldgrass on Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:13 pm

Aging Technogeek wrote:Too many people, in my estimation, are afraid of new and different things. This can be a real problem because most of life's greatest learning opportunities are tied to new and different experiences. Embrace the new. Cherish the different. These are the best teachers.


This is agree with as well. Everybody needs to give Gnome 3 a try. Never know....might just like it.


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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby craig10x on Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:39 pm

big +1 aging technogeek....

I even like unity now (was lukewarm about it when i first ran it) :lol:
Just because something is different doesn't automatically make it bad...one must take the time to adjust to something new and as was said here...
many don't feel comfortable with any change...

I'm even considering re-installing ubuntu 11.10 and use Unity (i like gnome 3 shell too but give an "edge" to unity actually) and also add Cinnamon session to it so i can have my "cake and eat it too" :)

Nice thing about Cinnamon desktop is that it can be used on many different distros...
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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby MALsPa on Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:58 pm

craig10x wrote:Nice thing about Cinnamon desktop is that it can be used on many different distros...


Which is normally the case with any DE or WM, I think. I don't think it's true of Unity, though.
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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby craig10x on Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:15 pm

MALsPa wrote:
craig10x wrote:Nice thing about Cinnamon desktop is that it can be used on many different distros...


Which is normally the case with any DE or WM, I think. I don't think it's true of Unity, though.


Yes..actually that is true... :wink:

I think Unity can be added to other distros, i recall some here that run mint and added unity session to it....i believe it's in the package manager on mint...
can't check right now because i am running a live iso of ubuntu 12.04 at the moment (i wouldn't hard install it until it comes out though) if i do re-install ubuntu right now it would be 11.10 to use until April...
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Re: Why bother with Mint 12?

Postby KBD47 on Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:23 pm

craig10x wrote:
Nice thing about Cinnamon desktop is that it can be used on many different distros...


I just read this:
http://www.itworld.com/software/248396/ ... h-cinnamon
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