What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby heavy metal on Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:47 am

There are more people using the main version than the lmde version, there must be a reason why, personally I was using lmde 2013 but printing n' scanning not working and very slow update packs turned me over again to main version, now printer and scanner working and 5 years updates is not so bad, if you don't want to update every 6 months then don't do it. Anyway if I wanted to use debian I would use the original version not lmde! IMHO!
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby js3915 on Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:22 pm

heavy metal wrote:Anyway if I wanted to use debian I would use the original version not lmde! IMHO!


Only nice thing LMDE has over Debian ive seen so far is ability to let me install Propitiatory drivers i need abit easier than the Debian issue and install bit more non-free stuff out of the box. I know both you can do in debian but LMDE makes it easier.
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Re: Linux Mint on Its Own

Postby rbeltz48 on Fri Aug 02, 2013 8:09 pm

Nilla Wafer wrote:
rbeltz48 wrote:I'm looking for comments on any plans Mint has to completely break away from Ubuntu and make its own definitive mark in the Linux world. Thanks.


You make it sound like Mint is "just Ubuntu with green paint," but it's a heck of a lot more than that!

~nilla


That's the problem with trying to discern someone's thoughts by their words. It's not always possible. Ubuntu was good through 10.10 which ran perfectly on my IBM Thinkpad laptops. Since then, it has been all downhill for Canonical. What I was saying is that Mint should become totally independent from any other distro except perhaps Debian, which Ubuntu is based on or at least, at one time, was based on. Now you would have to say they've gone pretty much independent from anyone. And that's where most of the bugs in Mint are coming from. You can see at this link http://futurist.se/gldt that there are only three main distros: Debian, Slackware and Red Hat. Many if not most of the distros that are active are based on one of those three. I will continue using Mint as long as it runs reasonably well, does for me what I want done on my laptop and remains a community based project.
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby heavy metal on Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:07 pm

kmb42vt wrote:
Brahim wrote:What do you think if Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever and develop a "from scratch" package base?
What if they develop LMDE instead for instance?


This just begs one simply question:

Why?

I see absolutely no reason to drop Ubuntu as the base for the main editions. Philosophical reasons don't count. :)


+10 :) 100% agree with you!
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby teatime on Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:07 am

I'm a new LMDE user and use LMDE only on my laptop (workstation debian wheezy) and there is already a discussion on debian mailing list about a possible debian LTS release but this can only work if there are enough developers which are willing to invest more years in maintaining their packages for a long release lifetime (debian at the moment: 2+1). At the moment linux mint benefits from the maintaining work of Ubuntu/Canonical devs but I think for the longterm a switch to debian is better as mint developers can support directly the base instead to work with a system which get maintained by a company.
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby Eggnog on Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:13 pm

This is an interesting topic. Canonical is pushing its own agenda with its "one size fits all" vision for the future, where its OS works across all devices, with dock-able smartphones and tablets, etc. It seems that Unity and Mir, among other things, are a big part of that along with what appears to be a certain commercialization aspect. I'm not going to attempt to judge whether that's good or bad. That's for Canonical to decide and the merits could be argued from now until the end of time. But it does make me wonder at what point Linux Mint starts to move away from Ubuntu.

We've seen Canonical's vision for the future of Ubuntu. That vision doesn't appear to be shared by the Mint team who, at least at this point in time, is focused on providing an excellent desktop experience primarily through Cinnamon and MATE. At what point does this necessitate a move away from Ubuntu, and how is that accomplished? LMDE seems interesting but the update cycle is rather slow and, from what I have read, sometimes causes problems not the least of which is due to the magnitude and scope of the update package. SolydXK seems to break it down to monthly updates rather than semi-annual. I've not yet used LMDE and my experience with SolydK is limited to about two weeks or so, so I can't really speak with any experience. But so far, SolydK seems to work rather well (even though I'm not a huge KDE fan) and the one big update I installed went flawlessly and did not take very long.

I am quite interested to see where Mint goes in light of Canonical's turn from its roots to its current vision for the future. You'd have to think that Debian is largely in the picture, but who can say? I'm certainly not qualified to say, that's for sure. I just know I like using MInt Cinnamon and find it to be very easy and hassle-free, which causes me to more productive without thinking about the OS. When, if and how it moves away from Ubuntu is a subject of great interest to me.
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby MALsPa on Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:24 am

Folks might want to check out this interview with Clem: http://www.techworld.com.au/article/529 ... inux_mint/

Looks like he isn't planning on moving away from Ubuntu, but he's keeping his options open.

As the man himself said:

Why Ubuntu? Because it was (and still is) the best package base.
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby teatime on Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:22 pm

Thanks for the post and it's answers some of my questions.
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby Acid_1 on Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:54 pm

Early in Mint's life, that was what was done. Each release was based on the previous Mint release. Mint started showing Mint only bugs, and it was increasingly more unreliable to add from the repositories, kinda like Debian repos are to Ubuntu.

This is just my opinion from then.

EDIT

Read original post.

I'd miss apt, and how many tutorials there are for Ubuntu that work for Mint. And mostly, I'd really miss apt....
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby dannymichel on Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:43 am

I would switch back to mint if it were it's own distro.
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby BRKsays on Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:14 am

Clem said Ubuntu is the best base available right now and so he has no plan on changing base anytime soon. Nevertheless he has the LMDE to fallback if Ubuntu deviates further away and in a different direction than mint. Personally I don't like ubuntu but I see Clem's point. There is no need, at least now, to leave ubuntu.
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby wanderer7 on Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:11 pm

In my opinion, no, Mint shouldn't move away from Ubuntu. I would never use Ubuntu itself, because of its spyware (that's what I call collecting user's data and selling it to Amazon), but the distros I like are Ubuntu based: Linux Mint and Trisquel.
Ubuntu has let their users down, but it used to be a really good distro: Ubuntu made it easier for ex-Windows and Mac users to switch to GNU/Linux, it was ideal for beginners, had(still has) a good documentation, has good hardware support, has very good font rendering, made GNU/Linux more popular among desktop/laptop users, etc (unity isn't a disaster either, although I prefer Cinnamon and MATE). And I love thier philosophy too:
"We believe that every computer user:
Should have the freedom to download, run, copy, distribute, study, share, change and improve their software for any purpose, without paying licensing fees.
Should be able to use their software in the language of their choice.
Should be able to use all software regardless of disability."
In other words, Ubuntu brought ease of use and quality to GNU/Linux world. Before Ubuntu, GNU/Linux was considered to be for geeks and servers only.
So, maybe Ubuntu itself isn't good anymore, but it still can be a very good base for another distro.
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby Crewp on Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:50 pm

I use LMDE and I love it! I also love the Cinnamon DE, I don't see any problem accept for the short support cycles an Ubuntu base has. But we at least have choices. I've used many distro's just like most of us Linux user's do over a course of time. And to me LInux Mint w/ Cinnamon is one of the very best. Ubuntu or Debian based.
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby clfarron4 on Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:39 pm

I'm tempted to resurrect Cinnarch.
Problems? Tell us EXACTLY what you've done and what you expected to happen, IN DETAIL. That will save us questions, and we should get along better,

I have dysgraphia. This means I might have understood you incorrectly through no fault of my own.
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby hexdef101 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:41 pm

Interesting idea Brahim. Not LMDE though. If I was managing a switch. first it would be the Kernel. then I would rework the system. in particular Merging different systems into a unified whole. example merge plymouth with MDM and possibly desktop . there is no reason to have multiple programs doing what is essentially the same thing. the end result would be a multi stage program.

psudo-code

set screen geometry
set layer 0 to loading.png
set layer 1 to spinner.png
initiate system
clear screen
set layer 0 to background.png
set layer 1 to mdm.greeter.app
wait for input
upon input clear layer 1
set layer 1 to panel.app
set layer 2 to dock.app
set layer 3 to desklets.app
set layer 4 to desktop.app

in this way you have one main program and a bunch of little sub apps doing the rest. you don't waste cycles doing the same work multiple times

using a combination of html 5 and css with an emulation layer for gtk 2/3 you can redesign window management across the board (yes I do know this is similar to cocoa/carbon on the mac) also the desktop could in fact look like anything right out of the box (no need for a one size fits all design).
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby vrkalak on Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:09 pm

Ubuntu wants to start charging for use of repros by Mint and others
« on: Today at 13:37:02 »


Third, and I think this is a point other Linux news websites are ignoring, Clem claims he has been asked by Canonical's legal department to license the binary packages used by Ubuntu. To me this is a scary thought. Ubuntu is a base distribution for many projects, some of them (such as Mint and Kubuntu) are quite successful. Clem's statement makes me wonder if Canonical has approached other open source projects about licensing the right to access Ubuntu's package repositories. If so, what might follow? Would derivative distributions need to pay to use Canonical's packages? How would Canonical enforce such a policy, with lawyers, by blocking access to the repositories if a user isn't using Genuine Ubuntu? Canonical would certainly have the right to restrict access to its packages, they are on Canonical's servers after all. However, most Linux distributions are quite open about allowing anyone to access their software repositories and I wonder if Canonical might be acting in a short-sighted manner if they are trying to license access.

With these thoughts in mind I contacted Canonical and asked if they could shed any light on the issue. At the time of writing I have not received a reply. An e-mail to the Linux Mint project asking for details yielded much better results. Clement Lefebvre responded the following day and, while he wasn't able to go into specific details as talks with Canonical are still on-going, he was able to share a few pieces of information. When asked if Canonical was hoping to collect a fee for using their binary packages, Clem responded, "Money isn't a primary concern. Although the original fee was in the hundreds of thousands pounds, it was easily reduced to a single digit figure. The licensing aims at restricting what Mint can and cannot do, mostly in relation to the OEM market, to prevent Mint from competing with Canonical in front of the same commercial partners."

Clem went on to indicate Canonical has not offered any threats nor discussed enforcing any licensing terms. When I asked what Mint's plans were concerning the licensing deal Clem answered, "We don't think the claim is valid (i.e. that you can copyright the compilation of source into a binary, which is a deterministic process). With that said, Ubuntu is one of Mint's major components and it adds value to our project. If we're able to please Canonical without harming Linux Mint, then we're interested in looking into it. As negative as this may sound, this is neither urgent nor conflictual. It's a rare occasion for Canonical and Linux Mint to talk with one another and although there are disagreements on the validity of the claim, things have been going quite well between the two distributions and both projects are looking for a solution that pleases all parties."
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby hoppimike on Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:29 pm

I would prefer to see the Ubuntu middleman dropped, but I understand if the advantages it provides are enough that that is undesirable.

I don't have enough knowledge yet to understand this fully...
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby Zorba on Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:35 pm

I guess divorce is a must now :D
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby MALsPa on Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:49 am

Brahim wrote:I guess divorce is a must now :D

Lol. Doesn't look like Clem shares your opinion.
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Re: What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby Tar_Ni on Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:47 pm

As a Linux newbie, I would prefer that it remains based on Ubuntu. The installation process of Ubuntu is so much easy and painless for the beginners. That's very important. Also, we have access to all that is compatible to Ubuntu which is great.

Mint as grown as a distro of it's own, not just a spin-off of Ubuntu. It dominates the standings of distrowatch.
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