Future Plans: Mint Server ?

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Future Plans: Mint Server ?

Postby 9812713 on Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:10 pm

Hello ,

Here is a Topic that I doubt will be shot down, however here it is..

I think it would be cool to have a Mint Server, Basically here is my interpretation of what it should include.


Based off Ubuntu Server
-> a Web GUI (configured at https)
-> Access to Mint install (Server software add-ons)
-> Everything configured from the Web GUI, Telnet or SSH

File system Support:
Samba
NFS

Services:
Telnetd
DHCPd
SSHD
(some kind of streaming server, media Tomb ? )
ETC..

Web Support:
Apache or lighttpd
MySQL
Support for multiple domains

An You could also offer a service such as S3, or a type of online storage..

i am just thinking out loud.

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Postby clem on Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:49 pm

I'm not sure Mint is a good base for a server. Compared to Debian Testing or Stable for instance... but if somebody wants to take the lead on this project and make a community server edition, I'll help as much as I can.

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Postby scorp123 on Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:01 pm

clem wrote:I'm not sure Mint is a good base for a server.
Why oh why do you say that? It isn't really that hard.

What we would need is:
    - a streamlined default kernel (e.g. i686 optimised) with SMP support out of the box.
    - 64-bit support (e.g. for AMD-64) would be nice too.
    - get rid of all the desktop overhead such as support for various multimedia devices; a server doesn't need that!
    - all the nifty extras (e.g. scheduler type, log rotations, partitioning!) should configured so it makes more sense for a server.
    - get rid of the multimedia packages which would be typical for desktop usage but have no business being on a server.
    - instead ship various server packages: apache, mysql, postgres, sshd, vsftpd, openldapd, and so on ...


Dump the Live CD mode ... use the "Ubuntu Server" as base with the text-based installer. Someone installing a server is supposed to be able to handle a text-based installer.

What I would welcome --and that's where the "Mint" factor comes into play-- would be something like a text-based "MintConfig": A somewhat admin-friendly tool (admins are always under stress ... so somewhat friendly tools --not too "friendly" though!! An admin is not a "noob"-- running in text mode are always welcome!) that would allow one to configure some basic things in a ncurses-based program ....

If you ever used any of the SUSE distros you should know yast ... it both works in X11/GUI and in text-mode and does a great job at handling sysadmin tasks. That would be really nice-to-have.

Package management can be left "as is": apt, aptitude, dpkg and dselect are all that is needed for this, so you don't even need to worry about that part.

I am pretty sure that this can be done and that it isn't that hard.

The hardest part would be to develop a yast-like tool that would work in text mode too and help the stressed admin when he needs to do stuff quick ... The rest is easy IMHO 8)
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Postby bigbearomaha on Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:23 am

I am involved in a project using pclos as a base for a server.

It is gui based on kde ( you will NOT believe how fast it can be stripped of all the desktop "stuff".

It is issued on a livecd and runs very well.

I think Mint could be used as a fine base for a server as well, especially being based on Ubuntu, being based on Debian.

the biggest challenges are finding apps and servers that are updated and current and that match the other apps (like webmin, we use webmin and have had to "customize" it to accomodate how it works with certain modules)

I'm not trying to plug our server as much as I am trying to tell you that it is very possible to build a serious server based on Mint.

I will post a link to our BE Server testing area if the good folks who run this fine forum think it might be appropriate, ( we are now very close to final ) if you might like to see how we are doing it.

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Postby scorp123 on Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:15 am

bigbearomaha wrote: It is gui based on kde
Bloat. KDE has no business being on a server ... The servers we have here don't even have their own keyboards and mice ... Why would they need a GUI then? There will never ever be anyone sitting in front of them with a mouse in their hand.

bigbearomaha wrote: webmin
WebMin is known for having security issues. That's a big no no no here.
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Postby bigbearomaha on Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:38 am

The great thing about Linux is there is room for creativity and there is more than one way to do things. There is also not just one "right" way.

You come across as very old school, traditional and that is fine as wine. I disagree with your style of "humor" as you call it. insults and putdowns is more the way I perceive it, but to each his own.

In regards to kde, if left alone, yes it is "bloated" but there are ways to minimize and reduce a lot of the overhead.

in regards to webmin, again the beauty of linux is that things progress,they can be fixed and improved upon. nothing is stagnate and locked in unless you chosse to let it be.

If you like to use things that will never act up because they are old and " tried and true" very good for you, it takes that kind of consistency to make a lot of stable things work, but there is always room for development and improvement. to try new things.

Much the same as Mint does. Al ot of what Mint offers is not necessary, ubuntu itself offers of the necessary stuff, yet you find yourself using Mint?

why? because you can.

because it appeals to you.

same for the rest of the people in the world.

You are very good at pointing out all that you think is wrong, I would love to sometime see that experience and talent you obviously have in order to be in the job you are in used to to inspire and support others instead of tearing them down because you personally don't see the value in them.

( edit: I removed the word "always" from "tearing them down" because you don't "always" do that. but on a quick search of your posts in Mint here, it is not hard to see you favor cynicism and criticism over other forms of interaction )

And another great thing about Linux,

you don't have to read or care about anything I write here.

Linux is a beautiful thing.

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Postby scorp123 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:33 am

bigbearomaha wrote: The great thing about Linux is there is room for creativity and there is more than one way to do things. There is also not just one "right" way.
Yes, I guess those lazy admins of those Ubuntu servers had the same excuse before Canonical pulled the plug on their servers.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=41714

There is something called "best practices" and that doesn't always co-exist so well with "creativity". When it comes to servers I personally would always choose "best practices" over any form of "creativity". "Creativity" is fine (or where would we be with Linux??) but it should not collide with "best practices" or open too many doors to scenarios you probably would not want to happen on a server.

bigbearomaha wrote: insults and putdowns is more the way I perceive it, but to each his own.
Oh man, chill out for crying out loud. If I really wanted to insult anyone I can be *far* more efficient at it than that. If you can't stand my style then just ignore my postings for crying out loud. I am really getting tired of people interpreting BS I did not write and being so overly sensitive. If you can't stand what people write or if you can't stand their style then simply ignore them and stay away from their postings - it's as easy as that. Nobody forces you to read what I write and nobody is forced to respond to my postings and my postings are neither the "ultimate truth" about anything. I have my opinion and I voice it, yes. Can't stand that? Then just feel free to ignore me but quit whining please.

bigbearomaha wrote: In regards to kde, if left alone, yes it is "bloated" but there are ways to minimize and reduce a lot of the overhead.
While I agree to the above I still maintain my opinion that KDE has no business being on a *Server* installation (desktop or 'Workstation' is another story). Chances are that you will never ever even physically sit in front of your server (because servers are usually installed in a server room anyway and you never ever go there unless there is a hardware problem). And even if you intend to use GUI programs remotely (e.g. via VNC or FreeNX) then there are far lighter and way faster options than GNOME or KDE, e.g. light-weight window managers such as "blackbox" or "fluxbox".

bigbearomaha wrote: in regards to webmin, again the beauty of linux is that things progress,they can be fixed and improved upon.
Sure, but webmin has a track record of having had security flaws. I of course see it's usefulness, but I am picky when it comes to security.

bigbearomaha wrote: Much the same as Mint does. Al ot of what Mint offers is not necessary, ubuntu itself offers of the necessary stuff, yet you find yourself using Mint?
You're comparing apples and oranges here. For starters, Ubuntu Server and Ubuntu Desktop are radically different fromt end-user's point of view. So while both use the same package base and the same repos what gets shipped in the package is totally different. The server version is totally trimmed down and only contains the absolute minimum that is necessary to run a server (e.g. no GUI per default). And that is *good*. Exactly what you would want on a server. And I don't see why a Mint server version should not take the same approach.

bigbearomaha wrote: You are very good at pointing out all that you think is wrong,
Because it reflects my opinion. We are all entitled to have our own opinions. :wink:

bigbearomaha wrote: used to to inspire and support others instead of tearing them down because you personally don't see the value in them.
You are again talking lots of crap up there. Not that I need to prove anything here to anyone, but I can find dozens of postings here where I did *precisely* that. And if you are too over-sensitive or too obsessed about me being "insulting" or anything then that is absolutely fine with me. I don't need to prove anything to you and I don't really care about what you think how I am supposed to use "my talents" or not. I will simply take comfort in the fact that those people whom I helped so far simply know better than you :lol:

bigbearomaha wrote: you don't have to read or care about anything I write here.
Exactly :lol:
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Postby scorp123 on Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:39 am

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