Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux?

Chat about anything related to Linux Mint

Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux?

Postby Nick_Djinn on Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:09 am

Im starting to lose hope that Ubuntu will ever ditch PulseAudio or even FIX it. There are bugs that have continued unresolved since 8.04. Sound refuses to work on my main computer, which has a built in sound card + a nicer PCI card. Now they have added this travesty to KDE and Xubuntu....is it also in Mint XFCE now?

Can anybody recommend a good modern user friendly distro (end user/noob friendly, rather than dev friendly) that does not use this absolutely terrible program, or at least found a way to make it work?
Nick_Djinn
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 7:12 am

Linux Mint is funded by ads and donations.
 

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby ej64 on Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:32 am

Nick_Djinn wrote:Im starting to lose hope that Ubuntu will ever ditch PulseAudio or even FIX it.
when did Ubuntu fix anything upstream? :wink:
regarding "worst trajedy": perhaps it's a matter if it works for you or not. AFAIK PulseAudio is modern and mighty, but for me it doesn't work, too. At this point, a Linux user should examine the problem and provide the developers (which aren't people at ubuntu) with all necessary information to fix it. That's the way Linux goes.

There are bugs that have continued unresolved since 8.04. Sound refuses to work on my main computer, which has a built in sound card + a nicer PCI card.
Well, examine and report. Whining is for wimps.

Now they have added this travesty to KDE and Xubuntu....is it also in Mint XFCE now?
The actual XFCE version is Mint 9 XFCE. PulseAudio is not installed.

Can anybody recommend a good modern user friendly distro (end user/noob friendly, rather than dev friendly) that does not use this absolutely terrible program,[...] ?
Crunchbang 10 Statler XFCE (Debian based). Still alpha but already stable. Switch the sources to testing or even unstable if you like it bleeding edge.
Thinkpad X220 with Samsung SSD running Xubuntu 13.04
I'm getting old gladly -- I don't like to die young ...
ej64
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:43 am
Location: somewhere in Germany

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby alpha1 on Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:16 am

Pulse audio concept, though, is pretty noble and elegant.
alpha1
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:35 am

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby Nick_Djinn on Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:19 am

ej64 wrote:when did Ubuntu fix anything upstream?


Are you sure its upstream? I thought Ubuntu added PulseAudio before Debian did.

Also, its not necessarily a problem with PulseAudio itself, its a problem with PulseAudio on Gnome. I believe but am not certain that Ubuntu went ahead and did this on their own in 8.04. Later, they took the choice away from us having Gnome outsource Audio to PulseAudio...PulseAudio is broken for a lot of people, and removing it or fixing it is a princess.

The problem goes back to 8.04. This isnt a new release problem. Its been a problem for years and remains unfixed.


ej64 wrote:regarding "worst trajedy": perhaps it's a matter if it works for you or not.


While I get what you are saying and am not calling you selfish, that IS kind of a selfish way to look at things....if it causes a huge amount of problems but you are unaffected, its a problem for our community. AIDS is a problem for our society even if we dont have it. PulseAudio is a problem for Linux even if it happens to work on some peoples systems.

ej64 wrote:AFAIK PulseAudio is modern and mighty, but for me it doesn't work, too.


I thought Linux was about stability and Mint was about things just working. Trying to keep up with Windows at the expense of things breaking for a lot of people, creating a complete loss of audio functionality seems to go against these principles.

ej64 wrote:At this point, a Linux user should examine the problem and provide the developers (which aren't people at ubuntu) with all necessary information to fix it. That's the way Linux goes.


Like bug reports from 2 years ago, still unresolved? I think we have enough bug reports. I think we know that Pulse Audio, the way its implemented, is not working out so well for Ubuntu users.

Not every Ubuntu user is a developer, and people in a free country have every right to complain and criticize even a free product. I give small donations to several distros each release.

ej64 wrote:Crunchbang 10 Statler XFCE (Debian based). Still alpha but already stable. Switch the sources to testing or even unstable if you like it bleeding edge.


I might look into Crunchbang. Im not a dev, at this point, so I am not into fixing untested and broken stuff. I just want it to work.




PulseAudio is a real problem and seems to be getting more difficult to work with every release. I am at the point where I am ready to walk away from the entire family of distros because of PulseAudio.

Im not a dev and cant fix it. The bug reports are already numerous enough. Backed up and ignored even. Im not in a position to fix it myself and yet I still dont like it. So shoot me.
Nick_Djinn
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 7:12 am

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby ej64 on Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:21 am

Nick_Djinn wrote: I think we have enough bug reports. I think we know that Pulse Audio, the way its implemented, is not working out so well for Ubuntu users.
Well, there are bugs -- as in all but the most simple apps. However most of the problems arise from new and to have yet supported (or recognized) hardware. That's the point the user is in the developers debt.

I might look into Crunchbang. Im not a dev, at this point, so I am not into fixing untested and broken stuff. I just want it to work.
Yes, I see. But that's one really wide spread misconception. While Linux and a lot of distros are quite mature and it's free, it's not a free lunch, has never been and will never be ...

So shoot me.
Nope, I kick you ... :wink:
Thinkpad X220 with Samsung SSD running Xubuntu 13.04
I'm getting old gladly -- I don't like to die young ...
ej64
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:43 am
Location: somewhere in Germany

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby Nick_Djinn on Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:59 am

There might be some workarounds for my problems with PulseAudio.

In my OPINION, I dont think PulseAudio is ready OR its not being implemented properly. While I can appreciate the 'fix it' mentality, I think it should remain an optional addon until it gets some maturity rather than be made mandatory (if you want to use the most popular distros and their derivatives) and then expect noobs to be a testing ground as millions of their systems break.

Just count all the PulseAudio help threats...its overwhelming. I dont think I have see anything cause as much ruckus, besides maybe GRUB or GRUB2.


So a bug report might be useful....ditching PulseAudio might be an even more helpful suggestion though, but keep it in the repos for people who need it, then reintroduce it after it gets better compatibility with multiple sound cards and more advanced sound cards when you have multiple sound sources....it just craps out and I am left with no sound at all, even after reboot. Removing it is tricky and people dont agree on the best way to do this.

So I thought I could get away from it by using XFCE....no luck. When did they decide to add that?




So I can probably get my system working in a short amount of time, but it just seems like it causes enough problems that maybe developers should reflect on whether it should be forced down peoples throats who dont need it.
Nick_Djinn
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 7:12 am

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby Nick_Djinn on Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:19 am

So I have my sound back WITHOUT PulseAudio using Mint KDE, but I stand behind my rant.


Pulse Audio is cool and has potential, but is not fully compatible with the combination of Ubuntu and peoples hardware yet and is not ready to be installed by default.
Nick_Djinn
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 7:12 am

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby ej64 on Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:46 am

Nick_Djinn wrote:So I thought I could get away from it by using XFCE....no luck. When did they decide to add that?

As already mentioned, Mint 9 XFCE does not use PA. Xubuntu 10.10 does. I hope Mint 10 XFCE won't use it, but if I'll switch to Crunchbang Statler XFCE.
Thinkpad X220 with Samsung SSD running Xubuntu 13.04
I'm getting old gladly -- I don't like to die young ...
ej64
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:43 am
Location: somewhere in Germany

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby Robin on Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:32 pm

When Xubuntu 10.4 came out it included PulseAudio (even though none of the apps it ships with depend on PulseAudio) and I was afraid that Mint 9 Xfce CE, being based on Xubuntu 10.4 would have it also, but thank goodness, it doesn't! So I found a sweet Xubuntu-like long-term-supprt distro I can use.

It's been awhile now, but I actually had more sound issues with Crunchbang Statler (Xfce version, when it was Alpha) without PulseAudio than I did with Xubuntu Lucid with PulseAudio). Sure surprised me... Crunchbang Statler is Beta now and maybe fixed that.

When Mint 9 Xfce reaches end-of-life, unless PulseAudio has either been "fixed" or removed in Xubuntu and/or Mint Xfce by then, I'll prob'ly look elsewhere... AntiX maybe, or revisit Crunchbang.

-R
User avatar
Robin
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:09 pm

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby Nick_Djinn on Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:43 am

Awesome!!!

Thank you very much for sharing this helpful info. I have never gotten PulseAudio to work on my system, and I have tried. I have sound, but I have to use one method or another for removing it....I think I found some good methods, though it leaves a lack of functionality in Gnome as far as mixing sometimes, but still works.



Glad to hear that Mint XFCE does not rely on PulseAudio.....it would be nice if they did the same for KDE and any other release that does not have special need for it. I mean, some people need it, which is why it should be in the repos, or even in the software center with special scripting instructions for fully changing over to PA if your need it.....but it just breaks too many peoples systems for it to be included by default on an operating system intended for noobs who dont know how to trouble shoot.

Sound working perfectly with ALSA in KDE.
Nick_Djinn
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 646
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 7:12 am

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby Nightstrike2009 on Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:58 pm

It works on mine, just as well seing my soundcard is a component of my motherboard, I've heard it only works with 75% of PC's though, so you'd think they'd sort the other 25% out before poncing aroung with pointless eye candy, but there you go. :-(

Sound working perfectly with ALSA in KDE.


Glad you have sound on your PC now, I agree though Pulseaudio doesn't seem fit for mainstream yet, more work needs to be done to increase its compatibiltity base. :shock:
Linux Mint 12 (Lisa) User
User avatar
Nightstrike2009
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:17 am
Location: UK

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby mads on Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:35 pm

Nick_Djinn wrote:I mean, some people need it, which is why it should be in the repos, or even in the software center with special scripting instructions for fully changing over to PA if your need it.....but it just breaks too many peoples systems for it to be included by default on an operating system intended for noobs who dont know how to trouble shoot.

Couldn't be more agreed..!
Nick_Djinn wrote:Sound working perfectly with ALSA in KDE.

I am using Gnome, but I've removed everything related to PA. This is what I did to get rid of PA:

A. Menu - Startup Applications - unchecked "PulseAudio Sound System" and "Volume Control"
B. menu - Services Settings - unchecked "pulseaudio
C. Removed pulseaudio, related packages and configuration files
$ sudo killall pulseaudio
$ sudo apt-get purge pulseaudio
$ sudo apt-get purge pulseaudio-utils gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio libpulse-browse0 paman pavumeter pavucontrol
$ sudo rm -rf /etc/asound.conf
$ sudo rm ~/.pulse-cookie
D. Installed these packages
$ sudo apt-get install -y libalsaplayer0 esound
E. Right clicked Panel, selected Add to Panel and added "Volume Control" to Panel

Now I'm enjoying a clear sound and a bug-free system using ALSA instead of PA.
User avatar
mads
Level 6
Level 6
 
Posts: 1309
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:44 pm

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby mneumonic on Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:56 am

mads wrote:
Nick_Djinn wrote:I mean, some people need it, which is why it should be in the repos, or even in the software center with special scripting instructions for fully changing over to PA if your need it.....but it just breaks too many peoples systems for it to be included by default on an operating system intended for noobs who dont know how to trouble shoot.

Couldn't be more agreed..!
Nick_Djinn wrote:Sound working perfectly with ALSA in KDE.

I am using Gnome, but I've removed everything related to PA. This is what I did to get rid of PA:

A. Menu - Startup Applications - unchecked "PulseAudio Sound System" and "Volume Control"
B. menu - Services Settings - unchecked "pulseaudio
C. Removed pulseaudio, related packages and configuration files
$ sudo killall pulseaudio
$ sudo apt-get purge pulseaudio
$ sudo apt-get purge pulseaudio-utils gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio libpulse-browse0 paman pavumeter pavucontrol
$ sudo rm -rf /etc/asound.conf
$ sudo rm ~/.pulse-cookie
D. Installed these packages
$ sudo apt-get install -y libalsaplayer0 esound
E. Right clicked Panel, selected Add to Panel and added "Volume Control" to Panel

Now I'm enjoying a clear sound and a bug-free system using ALSA instead of PA.


Wow thanks. This works amazingly well. I am one of the people who really dislikes Pulse. I have even been trying to find a good distro that just doesn't incorporate it at all. Until then this fix has made all of my sound issues disappear. Even running World of Warcraft in wine has less sound issues now for me.
mneumonic
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:42 am

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby randomizer on Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:00 am

mneumonic wrote:I have even been trying to find a good distro that just doesn't incorporate it at all.

Arch?
User avatar
randomizer
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 7:15 am

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby mneumonic on Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:27 am

randomizer wrote:
mneumonic wrote:I have even been trying to find a good distro that just doesn't incorporate it at all.

Arch?


How hard is arch to install and setup? I am not a total linux noob, but i'm not an expert yet. I looked at arch but got scared off by the huge install guide that they linked to. It sounds amazing though
mneumonic
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:42 am

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby randomizer on Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:54 am

The first time around you better set aside a weekend to work on it. Installation of the base system takes only a couple of minutes (unless you use wireless, then expect it to take longer while you work out how to set that up), but post-install configuration is where time is really consumed. Just about everything has good documentation though, so if you want to know how to do it, you need only check the Arch wiki. Have another system with an Internet connection accessible for referencing the wiki while you work, it will save you most of the hair on your head. Once you've done it once or twice you get quick. Document things you need to do for YOUR setup, and it will save you time in the future (I have never bothered with this but it's a good idea).

The great thing about Arch is it is completely modular, largely because of its limited patches to vanilla packages (unlike Ubuntu which has huge changes and increased dependency intertwining). But best of all it has pacman, which makes APT look like an old dog with arthritis. It's just so much faster.
User avatar
randomizer
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 7:15 am

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby Robin on Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:15 am

mneumonic wrote:
randomizer wrote:
mneumonic wrote:I have even been trying to find a good distro that just doesn't incorporate it at all.

Arch?


How hard is arch to install and setup? I am not a total linux noob, but i'm not an expert yet. I looked at arch but got scared off by the huge install guide that they linked to. It sounds amazing though


Linux Mint 9 Xfce Edition does not include PulseAudio either (but you probably knew that from my previous post). It's as elegant and effortless as the Main Edition in my opinion.

-R
User avatar
Robin
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:09 pm

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby mneumonic on Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:30 am

Any idea if xfce 10 is going to use pulse?
mneumonic
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:42 am

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby randomizer on Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:35 pm

Robin wrote:Linux Mint 9 Xfce Edition does not include PulseAudio either (but you probably knew that from my previous post). It's as elegant and effortless as the Main Edition in my opinion.

It also doesn't require 1/10 the set up that Arch does :)
User avatar
randomizer
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 7:15 am

Re: Is Pulse Audio the worst trajedy in the history of Linux

Postby z06gal on Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:10 am

mads wrote:
Nick_Djinn wrote:I mean, some people need it, which is why it should be in the repos, or even in the software center with special scripting instructions for fully changing over to PA if your need it.....but it just breaks too many peoples systems for it to be included by default on an operating system intended for noobs who dont know how to trouble shoot.

Couldn't be more agreed..!
Nick_Djinn wrote:Sound working perfectly with ALSA in KDE.

I am using Gnome, but I've removed everything related to PA. This is what I did to get rid of PA:

A. Menu - Startup Applications - unchecked "PulseAudio Sound System" and "Volume Control"
B. menu - Services Settings - unchecked "pulseaudio
C. Removed pulseaudio, related packages and configuration files
$ sudo killall pulseaudio
$ sudo apt-get purge pulseaudio
$ sudo apt-get purge pulseaudio-utils gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio libpulse-browse0 paman pavumeter pavucontrol
$ sudo rm -rf /etc/asound.conf
$ sudo rm ~/.pulse-cookie
D. Installed these packages
$ sudo apt-get install -y libalsaplayer0 esound
E. Right clicked Panel, selected Add to Panel and added "Volume Control" to Panel

Now I'm enjoying a clear sound and a bug-free system using ALSA instead of PA.



Excellent post. I removed pulse and could not be more pleased. It solved the audio lag I had in veetle. Pulse gives fits for alot of people. Thanks for posting this.
z06gal
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 668
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:16 pm

Linux Mint is funded by ads and donations.
 
Next

Return to Chat about Linux Mint

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest