Ubuntu will become ad-ware soon.

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Re: Ubuntu will become ad-ware soon.

Postby veggen on Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:53 am

Many of the subtopics you insist on are too irrelevant to respond to, but this one is important:

/dev/urandom wrote:Ubuntu is popular because PC magazines for beginners say it's the best thing since sliced bread.

And for beginners, it *is* the best thing since sliced bread. Imagine buying your parents a laptop with pure Debian. Thanks to Ubuntu, a popular Linux laptop might be a near future.
Linux world desperately needed someone who there for the money, who''ll target the mass market, who'll actually put Linux on the map for an average user. They've played dirty, but we've all profited in a way, because when they get into the market, everyone will. Now they're trying to play dirty again and, as I explained above, we'll profit again either way. Ubuntu is not here to do what everyone else is doing, they are *not* yet another distro. They're here to succeed commercially by doing all the moves others won't do. And while I might not like Ubuntu anywhere near my computer, I sure love the fact it exists. So again, let them do this. It can only be good for us, the end users, however it turns out. If ads and crap are not your cup of tea, skip Ubuntu, you have so many other options. But let them do their thing, they're good at it.
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Re: Ubuntu will become ad-ware soon.

Postby /dev/urandom on Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:07 am

veggen wrote:Exactly.

So Linux is as free as Windows. OK.

veggen wrote:'Cause we're talking about desktop distros here.

We weren't yet. CentOS works fine on a desktop BTW.

veggen wrote:But an OS that is not of out-of-the-box kind will never ever get any wide spread end-user love.

Debian is OOTB user-friendly. It even has Gnome. (Or KDE, if you want to.)
Easy to set up, no annoying pop-up bs.

veggen wrote:And for beginners, it *is* the best thing since sliced bread. Imagine buying you parents a laptop with pure Debian. Thanks to Ubuntu, a popular Linux laptop might be a near future.

So why is that good?

(Ubuntu is not the first newbie-friendly desktop. SuSE was there more than a decade ago.)

veggen wrote:So? Who's to say if Mageia will survive for a long time.

Who says Ubuntu will?

veggen wrote:Mandriva's as dead as a door knob.

According to latest announcements, it is not. It has only lost its user base for a while. It has done so several times within the past few years, and it always came back.
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Re: Ubuntu will become ad-ware soon.

Postby veggen on Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:44 am

What do you mean by "why is a popular Linux laptop a good thing"?!! Do you think we'll ever get good drivers unless it's commercially sensible? The forums are flooded with "x doesn't work on my laptop", and "Optimus problems". I'll stop there as it's the most obvious.
You can preach your religion all you want, Ubuntu's success is good for us. SuSE might have been a user friendly distro that came before Ubuntu, but it failed at reaching the mass market. Ubuntu so far looks like it's going to succeed. Because Ubuntu doesn't care if it's playing dirty.
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Re: Ubuntu will become ad-ware soon.

Postby /dev/urandom on Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:52 am

veggen wrote:What do you mean by "why is a popular Linux laptop a good thing"?!!

Let me rephrase it: What is the precise advantage of having a popular Linux laptop while there are already so many popular Windows and Mac OS laptops around? Do you think it will improve Linux in any way when it has even more newbie users who want Linux to be even more newbie-friendly?
The less users know, the more they want Linux to be "like Windows". I can't see why this would be good.

veggen wrote:Do you think we'll ever get good drivers unless it's commercially sensible?

What kind of drivers is missing?

veggen wrote:Ubuntu's success is good for us.

It divides the Linux community into "we want moar Windows" and "Ubuntu is for kids". I am a member of the latter kind.
When I use Linux (and not Windows or my beloved FreeBSD :mrgreen: ), I want to use Linux and not "something that is like Windows or Mac OS".
Mimicry behavior is ridiculous.

veggen wrote:SuSE might have been a user friendly distro that came before Ubuntu, but it failed at pushing the limit. Ubuntu so far looks like it's going to succeed.

What is openSUSE doing wrong for you?
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Re: Ubuntu will become ad-ware soon.

Postby veggen on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:09 am

Oh, so you're one of *those* people. Sorry I have bothered you sir, our discussion ends here.
Last edited by veggen on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ubuntu will become ad-ware soon.

Postby axel668 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:13 am

This is just another step into commercialization of Ubuntu after the Software Center developing into an App Store and Ubuntu One Music Store. Together with their unidirectional UI stragegy (Unity, Ubuntu Phone) this will drive more and more people to distributions like Mint, Bodhi, PearOS or Zorin, who capitalize on the advantages of Ubuntu (installation, hardware support, software availability) without including all these annoyances. In a couple of years Ubuntu will be the "IBM PC" of the Linux world, a lot of distributions will be using it as a standard but only few will actually buy / use Ubuntu as a product.

And maybe not even that, examples like LMDE, Crunchbang or Mepis show that great end user distributions can be built based on Debian already.
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Re: Ubuntu will become ad-ware soon.

Postby /dev/urandom on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:22 am

veggen wrote:Oh, so you're one of *those* people.

Just in case, so I don't report you for the wrong reasons: "What" kind of people?
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Re: Ubuntu will become ad-ware soon.

Postby Marja Erwin on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:51 am

Well, for one thing, you're insulting new users.

Not every newbie wants Windows.

I never did. I have arm and hand injuries, so I need good input device drivers, and I need a desktop I can use [not Unity!], but I had to install a patch just to keep the built-in touchpad from malfunctioning. I don't like the direction Ubuntu is going either, but I don't see the point of blaming new users for it.

I plan to switch over to Mint, probably Debian edition, soon. I'll probably need to edit grub to enable the touchpad, install the patch to enable me to disable tapping, edit something else in Mate to widen the scrollbars, install the necessary software to use a joystick [which is much less painful than a mouse or typing], and so on. It might put off new users.

I once tried Xubuntu. Of course the live cd didn't work, and didn't give any clue whether, with the right drivers, Xubuntu would work, but it was widely recommended. But the installer crashed partway through. I had to restart and it didn't work right. It might also put off new users.
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Re: Ubuntu will become ad-ware soon.

Postby /dev/urandom on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:55 am

Marja Erwin wrote:Well, for one thing, you're insulting new users.

Not every newbie wants Windows.

"Use Windows" is an insult? LOL, srsly. Get real.
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Re: Ubuntu will become ad-ware soon.

Postby xenopeek on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:20 am

This topic is going in the wrong direction, so let's all back up a bit or it gets locked.
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Re: Ubuntu will become ad-ware soon.

Postby RJim on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:10 pm

veggen wrote:
RJim wrote:if this is in the next version of Mint

Why would it be? It's a Unity lens. Mint has nothing to do with Unity. That's why we love it ;)

Perhaps I am mistaken since I'm still new to most of the Linux world, but it was my understanding that Mint is based on Ubuntu and that all of the new Ubuntu things eventually find their way into Mint. So that is why I wrote that line.

I would be very happy to be told that I am wrong about that! :D


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Re: Ubuntu will become ad-ware soon.

Postby /dev/urandom on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:12 pm

Unity is Ubuntu's default Desktop Environment. I don't know if Mint actually has it at all. While Mint is technically based on Ubuntu, it brings its own default desktops. :)
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Re: Ubuntu will become ad-ware soon.

Postby craig10x on Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:10 pm

/dev/urandom wrote:Unity is Ubuntu's default Desktop Environment. I don't know if Mint actually has it at all. While Mint is technically based on Ubuntu, it brings its own default desktops. :)


But it is still ubuntu underneath...try not to forget that...a lot of the good stuff you see on your mint COMES from it, and clem adds his own personalizations to it...just like one can do to their own ubuntu install, except of course he does it in a more "massive" way, so to speak (lol)...

Even on ubuntu itself, one does NOT have to use the default unity desktop...one can also install: gnome 3 fallback, gnome shell, mint's cinnamon, cairo dock (which is excellent), etc...and still get the ubuntu goodness with a different de....

I myself happen to like unity and so do many others, and in fact many who hated it at first came to really like it once they got use to something a bit different...

But, as i said, there are plenty of options, of course...

Don't underestimate the VALUE of Ubuntu to the world of Linux, as you seem to do... :wink:
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Re: Ubuntu will become ad-ware soon.

Postby /dev/urandom on Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:18 pm

craig10x wrote:Even on ubuntu itself, one does NOT have to use the default unity desktop...one can also install: gnome 3 fallback, gnome shell, mint's cinnamon, cairo dock (which is excellent), etc...and still get the ubuntu goodness with a different de....

There is no choice during the installation process, right?

craig10x wrote:Don't underestimate the VALUE of Ubuntu to the world of Linux, as you seem to do... :wink:

I don't underestimate it. I pity it. :mrgreen:
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Re: Ubuntu will become ad-ware soon.

Postby xenopeek on Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:59 pm

Thank you everybody that did join in constructive discussion about pros and cons of having Amazon as a default Unity lens. We welcome constructive discussion, but this is enough trolling and Ubuntu bashing for one topic...

Locked.
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