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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby mockturtl on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:34 pm

Schoelje wrote:https://github.com/GNOME/alacarte/pull/1

Please drop the line "Recommends: gnome-panel" in the control file.
Users complained about the amount of dependencies it pulls in when not running gnome:

That's a matter of debian packaging. I think you'd have to email the maintainers. (Also, I'd be surprised if GNOME used github for anything but mirrors -- the README says to register on bugzilla. It's possible no one will see your pull request.)

jstpierre (magcius) is a nice guy. He filed a bug for me when the cinnamon weather applet broke due to proxy settings.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby wayne128 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:56 pm

Postby GeneC » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:46 am

Can you see any issues with just adding the Siduction xfcenext repo to sources list?
It just contains xfce specific packages..

(Actually I did that already.... :lol: )


:lol: Gene, you are far ahead :lol: :lol:
My download speed is so horrible..
few hours, then broke.. stopped at 7xxMB as if it was a CD size :?:
now restart.. but in terminal mode, better way to recover if internet breaks
wget -c "address of iso"

I have been using siduction for as long as they have it there. No issue at all
I was thinking once RC is installed, I would change kernel , conver to sid,, and because of xfce4.10 hosted by siduction , I am quite sure to use it and switch to sid...

still downloading RC1... got to keep waiting... :evil:
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby jjaythomas on Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:13 am

If this wrong place... Advise me where to go :lol: (doesn't sound right)

On 64 Bit 'Unofficial LMDE-Xfce RC'

have changes sources to track Testing directly. (Loved Sparky-Linux, I believe they were) but like Mint extras (+no having to install Xfce and it only 4.8 also)

1) you should not use 'Mint Update' anymore? Use either synaptic or apt-get update apt-get distro-upgrade in terminal (root)
2) Can I still use mint-debian-mirrors? Already put me on metrocast (seems a lot spedier)

Thank You
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby widget on Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:38 am

Just caught up with this thread. Kind of late in the show it seems.

I would like to comment on a couple things.

Thunar custom actions;
http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/custom-actions

That is from;
http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/start

Which in trun is from;
http://docs.xfce.org/

If there is another request for packages installed on a Debian netboot or netinstall image the easy way to share these is to;
Do your install

Run;
Code: Select all
dpkg --get-selections > selections.txt

This will put selections.text in your /home/<user name> directory.

Post this on the forum using code tags.

Also post your sources.list, again in code tags.

If you want people to try the same config as you use simply post the ~/.foo files.

The person recieving this info can then put the files where they obviously go. As for the sources.txt file I put it, for use, in my /etc/apt directory and point this command there;
Code: Select all
aptitude update && aptitude install dselect && dpkg --set-selections < /etc/apt/selections.txt && dselect install

I am sure that works as I use it a good bit in my playing around. The default command leaves out the "/etc/apt/" part and undoubtedly looks for sources.txt in the /home/<user name> directory but I have never tried that, I don't want the file there because I am a grumpy geezer (that is reason enough - ask any grumpy geezer).

This way a very good copy can be made without the person that built the thing having to use expensive band width for an iso.

I like this way of installing as I can use a quick install image and come back here where I can run boinc, listen to music and finish the install using my file browser and a chroot environment.

I do not know how many of you may have tried sharing a /home with several / partitions. This can be very handy when testing things out. Linux is a multi user based system and handles this easily. You do have to use a different user name for each / partitions install. Security is not an issue so they can all use the same password. The important thing is that the ~/.foo files have a separate user directory in which to store the config files.

I have never used more than 3 / partitions on one /home. I have known people to use up to a dozen though with no problem. I just don't have a simple way to remember more than 3 user names and keep straight what install they go to.

Remember that you don't have to vary the name much. You could use "user1", "user2" and "user3". I usually have tom sam and walt. If any of them piss me off pete clem or jak take their place.

I find it easier to remember if there is some connection with the install. I use Debian so and the installs I play with are usually testing and sid. Walt (Wheezy) and Sam (Sid) are pretty common. Here you could have three pre made / partitions say 8gigs and a 15gig /home. Roughly 40gigs for 3 installs with plenty of room to breath. Alpha (Art), Beta (Ben) and RC (Ralf).

It is nice to keep those older versions for comparison and debugging of the RC and Final (Frank if you have an extra /) for that matter. If you try to keep them pretty similar you also have alternate ~/.foo files you can plug in for some quick configuration.

I don't like to test in VB, I like a real hardware install. I like to multi boot probably too excessively though.
Dell XPS 420 Core2 Quad Q 6600, audigy5.1, Radeon HD 6450 - currently 4 320Gb HDD, Debian Squeeze for secure use, Debian testing for daily use, Debian Sid for fun.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:50 am

That's a lot of reactions!
So, between the marriage proposal and the geeky stuff, I'll try to response adequately...

@GeneC
The choice of the Oxygen theme: I like zerozero's explanation.

@dritzominous
Stay off the bubbles!

@zerozero
I wanted to distinguish the unofficial LMDE Xfce from the regular one, and at the same time show that it's LMDE KDE's sibling, but I like your explanation better ;)

@cwwgateway
Good catch: removed xfce4-taskmanager.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby jjaythomas on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:04 am

This way a very good copy can be made without the person that built the thing having to use expensive band width for an iso.

If look at site that's in esence what he did for KDE (for the people already have a LMDE install) The Xfce in theory should be lighter and you don't want to attach it to something heavier (all the current LMDE out their). If want to go Debian with a net install in actually could recreate and distro based on Debian (and approximate most others) or arch and build something or go fully source distro (sorcerer ect.) or use the 'Linux from Scratch' book (ect ect.). But most End Users like a Ready made ISO (close to what they want) the only need some customizing. Hence the (to many) distros.
It come down to the Convenience and ease of end user. And his willingness to do it for end users. :D

I do not know how many of you may have tried sharing a /home with several / partitions. This can be very handy when testing things out. Linux is a multi user based system and handles this easily. You do have to use a different user name for each / partitions install. Security is not an issue so they can all use the same password. The important thing is that the ~/.foo files have a separate user directory in which to store the config files.

Don't understand that Their essentially 'User accounts' only remember one to use depending on what sys (distro) on (so not to have configs conflict). My normal desktop has a admin account a account for both my wife and myself, and a testing "user' for trying thing out. A place I used to work had dozens of users (stored in a server and fetched to a machine (not thin clients) they were no a linux, but they were a 'Nix'. When (if) I install a different distro/version I routinely add a new user to home then copy thing over when know work (media a given, configs maybe not!), finally deleting old user(s) & root partitions and resizing stuff, finally changing grub (if need be).

Me I'm a distro hopper so I like a ready made ISO (but I find them lasting/install on my PC longer and longer with customizing now days)

End of Rant
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:38 am

mockturtl wrote:
Schoelje wrote:https://github.com/GNOME/alacarte/pull/1

Please drop the line "Recommends: gnome-panel" in the control file.
Users complained about the amount of dependencies it pulls in when not running gnome:

That's a matter of debian packaging. I think you'd have to email the maintainers. (Also, I'd be surprised if GNOME used github for anything but mirrors -- the README says to register on bugzilla. It's possible no one will see your pull request.)

jstpierre (magcius) is a nice guy. He filed a bug for me when the cinnamon weather applet broke due to proxy settings.


Thanks for mentioning that.
I filed a bug here: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=691461
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby GeneBenson on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:43 am

Like others I have been following this thread with great interest. A big thank you to Schoelje for his efforts here (not to mention all you brave testers). I just tried out the RC in the Live environment. I have some questions. In order of importance:

1. I noticed in Synaptic that the "Mark all Upgrades" button is still being hidden. This might have made sense in LMDE for those relying on Update Packs but in this version it really makes no sense. I am aware of the workaround but not hiding the button in the first place seems a better option to me. Minor niggle. :wink:

2. The Mint forums are a real mess. There are so many places to post about XFCE (and other versions) that it's hard sometimes to tell which version someone is using. To avoid this confusion and give LMDE XFCE CE (or whatever it's going to be called) a chance to stand out it really needs it's own sub-forum here. I hope this is possible. :?

3. I realize this is still a project in it's infancy but the question of updates needs to be addressed. IMHO sooner rather then later. Given the limited tester base here it is inevitable that errors/bugs will be discovered by others in the final version. Errors that are specific to this project. At the moment there is no way to fix these, other than releasing a new version. This also applies to any project specific updates the maintainer(s) wish to deploy. The obvious way to get these updates would of course be through a repository. However, reading through the comments here, this is far from certain. This is a real show stopper for me. I'm sure this will be addressed at some point. I just hope, as I already said, that it's sooner rather then later. :shock:

Sorry if this comes across as overly negative. It's certainly not my intention. I will continue following this thread a wish the developers all the best in their efforts. :D

P.S. Schoelje, de groeten uit Hilversum.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:44 am

jjaythomas wrote:1) you should not use 'Mint Update' anymore? Use either synaptic or apt-get update apt-get distro-upgrade in terminal (root)

Whatever suits your fancy: they are all good.

jjaythomas wrote:2) Can I still use mint-debian-mirrors? Already put me on metrocast (seems a lot spedier)

After a fresh install, it's the first thing you need to do.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:46 am

@widget
Thanks for the tip on Thunar's custom actions. I'll take a look at it.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:58 am

GeneBenson wrote:1. I noticed in Synaptic that the "Mark all Upgrades" button is still being hidden. This might have made sense in LMDE for those relying on Update Packs but in this version it really makes no sense. I am aware of the workaround but not hiding the button in the first place seems a better option to me. Minor niggle. :wink:

Haven't noticed that one: terminal kinda guy myself - will look into it.

GeneBenson wrote:2. The Mint forums are a real mess. There are so many places to post about XFCE (and other versions) that it's hard sometimes to tell which version someone is using. To avoid this confusion and give LMDE XFCE CE (or whatever it's going to be called) a chance to stand out it really needs it's own sub-forum here. I hope this is possible. :?

It was mentioned in the past, but the maintainers decided that this was the best place for non-official spinoffs.

GeneBenson wrote:3. I realize this is still a project in it's infancy but the question of updates needs to be addressed. IMHO sooner rather then later. Given the limited tester base here it is inevitable that errors/bugs will be discovered by others in the final version. Errors that are specific to this project. At the moment there is no way to fix these, other than releasing a new version. This also applies to any project specific updates the maintainer(s) wish to deploy. The obvious way to get these updates would of course be through a repository. However, reading through the comments here, this is far from certain. This is a real show stopper for me. I'm sure this will be addressed at some point. I just hope, as I already said, that it's sooner rather then later. :shock:

I'm discussing this with my service provider at the moment, but he's really hesitant (to say the least).
So, if you, or anybody else, know a affordable place to host my repository, I'd be a very happy camper!

GeneBenson wrote:Sorry if this comes across as overly negative. It's certainly not my intention. I will continue following this thread a wish the developers all the best in their efforts. :D

I don't see criticism as negative as long as arguments are given. It shows that people care enough to make things better.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby zerozero on Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:12 am

GeneBenson wrote:1. I noticed in Synaptic that the "Mark all Upgrades" button is still being hidden. This might have made sense in LMDE for those relying on Update Packs but in this version it really makes no sense. I am aware of the workaround but not hiding the button in the first place seems a better option to me. Minor niggle. :wink:

the bug report is here https://bugs.launchpad.net/linuxmint/+bug/959865 (is not new and is "confirmed"), kinda hopping that the new respin (the official one) addresses this because now with multiarch that patch renders synaptic close to useless.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby OS2-User on Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:56 am

CST 6:00h
Schoelje, I am afraid I have some bad news. I just gave your x86 RC1 Live-DVD a try on my old Athlon-M based Compaq Presario 906US laptop and for still unknown reasons the network manager doesn't utilize any of my 3 Ralink based USB WiFi adapters (2x generic RT2870 and 1x renamed RT3072 = Edimax EW-7722UTn, ID 7392:7722).
The latter one now finally, with more than a year delay compared to Ubuntu, made it into the Debian rt2800usb kernel module as well.
lsusb lists all of them and lsmod also shows the module loaded, as well as 'sudo ifconfig' and 'sudo iwconfig' have them listed as 'wlan1'|2.
'sudo iwlist wlan[0|1] scan' reports "Network is down", starting it with 'sudo ifconfig wlan0 up' and repeating the previous iwlist command now shows the missing WiFi hotspot, but still no luck with the network manager though.
And that's about as far as I know to go :(

Are others having that WiFi issue as well?

At that point I also seem to be prone to CPU freeze-ups, which I didn't have with Clem's Ubuntu based versions.

I also noticed that Jörg Schilling's CDRTools are not part of the package :( Did you forget about that or now decide against the original CD/DVD burn backend?

And other than with Clem's latest Mint14 versions, I am having serious issues with 'sudo pm-hibernate'. The screens turns off, but the laptop keeps on running/locking up (power light remains steady after a few moments of optical drive activity) and doesn't turn on the screen again, no matter which key I press. Not good at all. :(

BTW, is it possible to additionally get a date line turned on in the calendar/clock panel app, just like in Clem's XFCE version? I miss not having both visible at the same time.

And, unless there are major objections by others, could we in the "Mouse and Touchpad" Settings in Devices -> Touchpad please have the following turned on by default, to make getting started right out of the box a bit easier:
"Disable touchpad while typing"
"Tap touchpad to click"
and possibly "Enable horizontal scrolling"
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby zerozero on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:32 am

OS2-User,
re: network issues:
according to the debian wiki suport for those devices was moved from the kernel (as of v.3.0) to firmware-ralink http://wiki.debian.org/rt2870sta#Wheezy
can you (and Schoelje as well) please check if that pkg is installed?

re: cpu's lock-ups
if you tried mint14 this means that your cpu is pae enabled; this ed. (as any lmde ed. boots a 486 kernel by default); i believe that installing the pae kernel will solve this issue.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:04 am

zerozero wrote:OS2-User,
re: network issues:
according to the debian wiki suport for those devices was moved from the kernel (as of v.3.0) to firmware-ralink http://wiki.debian.org/rt2870sta#Wheezy
can you (and Schoelje as well) please check if that pkg is installed?

firmware-ralink is installed: check.

zerozero wrote:re: cpu's lock-ups
if you tried mint14 this means that your cpu is pae enabled; this ed. (as any lmde ed. boots a 486 kernel by default); i believe that installing the pae kernel will solve this issue.

...and if you run the 32-bit version...
To install pae, you simply run DDM (Device Driver Manager).
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby GeneC on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:11 am

Schoelje wrote:That's a lot of reactions!
.....
@GeneC
The choice of the Oxygen theme: I like zerozero's explanation.
.....
@zerozero
I wanted to distinguish the unofficial LMDE Xfce from the regular one, and at the same time show that it's LMDE KDE's sibling, but I like your explanation better ;)

....


Fair Enough. I always like to add/change many themes anyway. Themeing is a personal thing. Its not the Oxygen theme so much I dislike, its actually not bad, but the "BLUE HALO-ISH" Window Border .. :roll: .., that can be easily changed.... :wink:

Sound worked with no 'tweaking" this time.
Video works fine (you-tube full screen) using Chrome.

As so many others report... not that much to report.. Nice job... :D

Just for reference -- a list of things I added (personal preference).
gedit (3.4.2-1)
gtkhash (0.6.0-4)
gtkhash-common (0.6.0-4)
thunar-gtkhash (0.6.0-4)
gnome-system-monitor (3.4.1-2+b1)
bleachbit (0.9.2-2)
clamtk (4.41-1)
docky (2.1.4-1)
galternatives (0.13.5+nmu2)
gcolor2 (0.4-2.1)
gconf-defaults-service (3.2.5-1+build1)
dconf-tools (3.0.1-1
gparted (0.12.1-1)
dmz-cursor-theme (0.4.3)
mintmenu (5.3.8 )
gtkorphan (0.4.4-1.1)
xscreensaver-gl (5.15-3)
xscreensaver-gl-extra (5.15-3)
lshw-gtk (02.16-1)
tomboy (1.10.0-2)
-------------------------------
FROM DEBS

xfapplet (from mint Nadia .deb)
gtk-theme-config (0.4.0+git20121223-0shimmer1) SATYA's
http://www.webupd8.org/2012/09/customiz ... using.html



Also 'fixed" Synaptics 'missing' Mark all upgrades" button..
Per this fix.
viewtopic.php?f=200&t=70449

-------------------------------
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby GeneC on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:31 am

Schoelje wrote:
GeneBenson wrote:1. I noticed in Synaptic that the "Mark all Upgrades" button is still being hidden. This might have made sense in LMDE for those relying on Update Packs but in this version it really makes no sense. I am aware of the workaround but not hiding the button in the first place seems a better option to me. Minor niggle. :wink:

Haven't noticed that one: terminal kinda guy myself - will look into it.


===================
As mentioned in my last post..
Here is the hack fix for that.

viewtopic.php?f=200&t=70449

Edit: here's the fix ->

Roken wrote:
OK - here's the fix. (from our Forum friend, Roken).

If you haven't already (or if you've rebooted) reinstall synaptic.

Now, before you reboot open a terminal and:

Code: Select all
sudo gedit /etc/linuxmint/adjustments/10-mintsystem-synaptic.preserve



This will create a new text file. Add the following two lines to the file:

Code: Select all
/usr/share/synaptic/glade/window_main.glade
/usr/share/synaptic/gtkbuilder/window_main.ui



Save. Now your "Mark All Upgrades" button should be back and surviving reboots. To revert to default mint behaviour:

Code: Select all
sudo rm /etc/linuxmint/adjustments/10-mintsystem-synaptic.preserve



This is the correct way to disable the mintsystem change to synaptic (based on examination of the mintsystem script) and should survive updates in the future.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby OS2-User on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:34 am

zerozero wrote:OS2-User,
re: network issues:
according to the debian wiki suport for those devices was moved from the kernel (as of v.3.0) to firmware-ralink http://wiki.debian.org/rt2870sta#Wheezy
can you (and Schoelje as well) please check if that pkg is installed?
.

Mmmmh, I don't quite follow here and I still have only rather limited understanding of how stuff works in Linux.
But with 'sudo ifconfig wlan0 up' manually activating the adapter and 'sudo iwlist wlan0 scan' showing available hotspots, doesn't this already safely exclude any driver and firmware related issues? In my opinion it is the Network Manager somewhere failing to connect to the available WiFi adapter(s), isn't it?

zerozero wrote:re: cpu's lock-ups
if you tried mint14 this means that your cpu is pae enabled; this ed. (as any lmde ed. boots a 486 kernel by default); i believe that installing the pae kernel will solve this issue.

Hopefully, since something is seriously very unstable. While trying to get back from the screensaver froze the system up already again, requiring yet another reboot.

Schoelje wrote:...and if you run the 32-bit version... To install pae, you simply run DDM (Device Driver Manager).

... which unfortunately a.t.m w/o working WiFi is a non-option to try :(
But I still don't understand, how/why not having a PAE kernel would cause those problems (32bit addresses up to 4GB and I only have 1GB max RAM anyway and virt. mem per process is still limited to 4GB, isn't it? ) or are there now s/w components (power management?) being involved depending on PAE?
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby zerozero on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:41 am

Schoelje wrote:
zerozero wrote:OS2-User,
re: network issues:
according to the debian wiki suport for those devices was moved from the kernel (as of v.3.0) to firmware-ralink http://wiki.debian.org/rt2870sta#Wheezy
can you (and Schoelje as well) please check if that pkg is installed?

firmware-ralink is installed: check.

so (wild guess) it might be wicd that is not configured yet; in the first run (at least for me) wicd never detects the active wireless conections, i have to go to preferences and manually input it there, then refresh and pick my connection
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P.S.
OS2-User
i see you've just posted: we are not using networkmanager, it's wicd as i said above in this post, probably the issue comes from here
Image

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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby OS2-User on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:01 am

zerozero wrote:OS2-User,
i see you've just posted: we are not using networkmanager, it's wicd as i said above in this post, probably the issue comes from here

Well, since the laptop was restarting at the time of writing, I only remebered having seen "Network Manager" in its window title and overlooked the "Wicd" part :)

Thanks, zerozero :D That was it. Strange and unfamiliar to have to do that myself.
But having to manually input the interface wlan0, I find worrisome, considering that while testing Clem's Ubuntu based LM13 and LM14 editions, I had the wlan interface number over time (hibernation, replacing it with another adapter) creep up from 0 to at least wlan17. So how is Wicd going to keep track of those possible changes, once they occur (assuming I get hibernate to work here as well at some point)?
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