Whats your take on Wind0ws?

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Postby rlpw1011 on Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:32 pm

The problem with Windows I have is tinkering. I like to mess with my desktop features and questionable software. As a result I also have a problem with the Windows Verification System when I trash something. For instance my PC was acting buggy so I went and upgraded all the software and flashed my motherboard. When I flashed my motherboard Windows basically told me I was using stolen Software and I had to get a new number. Well that was the last straw for me so I leave my Windows partition alone now and mess with Linux.

the only good thing about Windows is that Amarok 2 will be able to run on it.
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Postby telic on Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:16 am

I would like to know what you guys think of Win?


MS Windows is a product of the most unethical of business practices. It's an example of bloated and aggressive incompetence that dominates by lack of competition, courtesy of cowardly greed from software and hardware vendors.

How's that?

;-)


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Last edited by telic on Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby gabhla on Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:11 am

I'm cool with Windows - as long as it's on someone else's pc.
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Postby Uncle Bob on Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:56 am

Personally I think Windows is great and I like it a lot. They work well and they do what they're supposed to do. The only problem I have with Microsoft is the price tag on their products. I'm not prepared to pay over 300 quid for a copy of Vista Ultimate, and I never will be.

To me Linux is something new and I enjoy playing with it, even though Linux is lightyears behind in the proper utilisation of all hardware components in any given PC. I will always keep Windows until such a day comes that I can do everything I can do in Windows with Linux. Besides Windows is a lot more user friendly to a novice user compared with that of Linux.

With Windows it works out of the box, even though you have to install additional software for whatever purpose you require it. All hardware works from the word go and if you need a driver installed, its quick and easy and it works.

With Linux you first have to trawl through forums to get help with whatever device you want to get working, then its a complicated procedure you have to follow to install any drivers, do configurations etc. and if you're lucky it works.

But hey, I'm not complaining; I'm just saying it as it is.
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Re: Whats your take on Wind0ws?

Postby scorp123 on Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:07 pm

manishk wrote:Most of the time I get the feeling that people using Linux just outrightly hate Win!
No ... I only hate the stupid people who use Micro$oft products and then enforce their stupid broken standards upon the rest of us; e.g. all those stupid web pages which are "optimised" for Internet Explorer, a totally broken browser which has a horrible record of being a security nightmare and totally not compliant to many important web standards. :twisted:

Linux is for serious work ... that's what I earn money with. Windoze is for spreading viruses and playing games :twisted:
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Postby scorp123 on Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:15 pm

Uncle Bob wrote:But hey, I'm not complaining; I'm just saying it as it is.
You are badly misinformed and a lot of what you say is plain FUD. :evil:

The reason some hardware doesn't work under Linux is that Microsoft has a strangehold on many hardware vendors, and so they don't release their specs so that someone could write a Linux kernel module. But if you are aware of this you can always buy hardware from vendors who 100% support Linux; on such hardware Linux works perfectly out of the box, way way way way better than Windows. No hunting for drivers, no downloading of some stupid setup.exe from somewhere somehow ... you just put in your Live CD or your Linux install CD and everything works out of the box.
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Postby Uncle Bob on Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:20 pm

scorp123 wrote:You are badly misinformed and a lot of what you say is plain FUD. :evil:
Come on scorp, you're not serious are you? If I'm so misinformed why don't you inform me correctly then? My comments are based on my own experiences. The problems I was hinting at I experienced on a Sony vaio s4xp, a compaq evo n600c, a hp compaq nc6000 and now a dell lattitude d620. With the evo I used a cisco aironet pcmcia wifi card. You then go on to say I mostly speak FUD. Do not make such comments if you cannot back it up with relevant facts. F and U, not at all; D, maybe a little. However, if this is the case as you say. Why am I still here? Why am I still using Linux, or more importantly Mint?

The more I use Mint the more I fall in love with it. I have resolved a lot of my issues as I encounter them with help and advice from yourself and other forum members. When I then get something to work I get that feel-good buzz and I feel chuffed with myself. Besides, the Mint community feels very homely to me and everytime anyone has an issue, comment, suggestion or solution, he/she gets that personal treatment asif he's the number 1 customer for this product. You don't see this anywhere else and is commendable.

scorp123 wrote:The reason some hardware doesn't work under Linux is that Microsoft has a strangehold on many hardware vendors...
Yes I know that. Sony as an example are NOT one of them. I even made a comical tongue-in-cheek comment along those lines on another thread which I called a conspiracy.

scorp123 wrote:...you can always buy hardware from vendors who 100% support Linux; on such hardware Linux works perfectly out of the box, way way way way better than Windows.
Out of curiosity; who are these vendors? Are these machines available in any High Street shop? What about when buying individual components ie mobo's, procs, memory, graphics, wifi cards etc. Who should I avoid and who's OK to buy from when I build my next custom desktop?
scorp123 wrote:No hunting for drivers, no downloading of some stupid setup.exe from somewhere somehow
Microsoft Update; 3 clicks; Start - All Programs - Microsoft Update. However to be fair, Linux Updates does a similar job.
scorp123 wrote:you just put in your Live CD or your Linux install CD and everything works out of the box.
That is debatable and I will take it with a pinch of salt until I experience that for myself.

scorp, you are forcing me in such a position so that it appears that I'm pro-MS and anti-Linux. Please don't do that again because it is not true and also not nice of you. As I've said before, my comments are my own opinion based on my present circumstances.
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Postby scorp123 on Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:59 pm

Uncle Bob wrote: If I'm so misinformed why don't you inform me correctly then?
Here we go then :D

Uncle Bob wrote: My comments are based on my own experiences.
And so are mine. :D

Uncle Bob wrote: The problems I was hinting at I experienced on a Sony vaio s4xp, a compaq evo n600c, a hp compaq nc6000 and now a dell lattitude d620. With the evo I used a cisco aironet pcmcia wifi card. You then go on to say I mostly speak FUD.
I have a Sony Vaio C1 VFK here (works out of the box), I have a hp Omnibook 4150b here (works out of the box), I have a hp Omnibook 6200vt here (works out of the box), I have a Compaq Evo N610c here (works out of the box for the most parts; WLAN needs an additional driver: there is an automatic script; execute it and you're done, compiling and installing the driver happens automagically for you in the background!), I have a hp dv2108ea Laptop here (works out of the box with the exception of the webcam: the "UVC" drivers are not 100% finished yet but it's just a question of time; other than that this machine just works), I have a Compaq Evo 510 e-PC (works out of the box), I have multiple hp ProLiant ML-xxx servers (work perfectly!) with tons of memory and additional gadgets (SCSI, tape drives, SATA disks, storage libs, and and and ...), I helped many people to get various distros of Linux working on their machines (be that laptops, desktops or servers) .... All in all I am pretty sure I know what I am talking about. :D

Uncle Bob wrote: Do not make such comments if you cannot back it up with relevant facts.
See above.

Uncle Bob wrote: F and U, not at all;
Oh really? :twisted: Read your posting up there again please. You complained that Linux is kinda "harder" to learn (= Fear; because it's different than Windows?). And then you make statements such as "even though Linux is lightyears behind in the proper utilisation of all hardware components in any given PC" although you are apparently aware why this is like that in some cases ... And then the following statement "I will always keep Windows until such a day comes that I can do everything I can do in Windows with Linux. Besides Windows is a lot more user friendly to a novice user compared with that of Linux."

1. you can already do everything with Linux (and much more!)
2. Linux is easy!

So this is "U" = uncertainty for me. With your statements you are trying to imply that Linux won't work as expected on most hardware (clearly depends on the vendor!!) and that is "hard" to learn (I know from experience with total computer-illiterate people such as elderly people or small children that this is plain wrong! Give them GNOME or KDE, show them what they can do and they are happy! No spyware, no viruses, no malware to worry about. No reboots, no crashes, no bluescreens ...)

Uncle Bob wrote: D, maybe a little. However, if this is the case as you say. Why am I still here? Why am I still using Linux, or more importantly Mint?
And for this you deserve to be praised ... it's just the points above that bothered me there, OK? :D

Uncle Bob wrote: Out of curiosity; who are these vendors?
Take HP for example. Most of their printers should work with Linux, most of them even work "Perfectly". Most of their laptops work tip top too, with minor annoyances such as the webcam not working on the very newest model lines (e.g. my dv2108ea) or the soundcard not yet being 100% supported ... but these are minor things and just a question of time. The HP desktops and servers we have in our office work 100% with Linux. The first thing I can do when I unpack a new server is to throw away the Windows driver disks ... I will never need them. The current Linux kernels have all the drivers I need. The only thing I here and there have to download from the HP web site is some proprietary network management stuff (e.g. in case the server in question needs to be constantly monitored), but that's about it. (yes, I agree: I am totally biased pro-HP ... I work day-in and day-out with their hardware ... :D )

Uncle Bob wrote: What about when buying individual components ie mobo's, procs, memory, graphics, wifi cards etc. Who should I avoid and who's OK to buy from when I build my next custom desktop?
There are plenty of websites around that will list what's compatible and what isn't. There are wikis such as this one: http://vendors.bluwiki.org/ ... or this: http://www.linux-drivers.org/

Uncle Bob wrote: That is debatable and I will take it with a pinch of salt until I experience that for myself.
Really depends on the hardware vendor and the hardware component in question. Believe me: I learned the hard way too :D

Uncle Bob wrote: scorp, you are forcing me ...
That's perfectly OK :twisted: ... From time to time I use my stinger, yes. :twisted: How dare I call myself "scorp" otherwise?? :D And yes, from time to time I am cruel and an extremist, forcing people into conflicts they didn't even want to be involved in :twisted: ... very sorry about that, but it is my nature :D

Haven't we all got our dark sides? :twisted:
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Postby Uncle Bob on Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:19 am

Sorry mate, I'm still not in agreement with you. You say you are pretty sure you know what you're talking about and I'm not going to argue that with you. After all, you have stated that you are quite the expert when it comes to Linux, seeing as this is what your day job involves.

Furthermore you also say "I helped many people to get various distros of Linux working on their machines". If Linux was that easy, why did people require your expertise to get it done? They could have done in themselves.

We are straying from the original topic of this thread, so I suppose we'll agree to disagree. :roll:
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Postby scorp123 on Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:03 am

Uncle Bob wrote: "I helped many people to get various distros of Linux working on their machines". If Linux was that easy, why did people require your expertise to get it done? They could have done in themselves.
Many of those actually did everything themselves for the most part, they just had minor issues they couldn't (yet) figure out. Other Windows-converts were a bit confused because they tried to apply some bad Windows-habits ... which of course didn't quite work so well. But once you show them how things are done correctly they find this stuff easy. All it takes is an open mind :D

Another problem often encountered is the misperception that applications are "missing" ... which is usually BS. You show these people what they can use instead and they're usually happy. And stuff like WINE or CrossOver Office or virtualisers such as VMware or VirtualBox may help in the rare cases where a certain Windows software really cannot be replaced. I have such a problem myself .... I have to use a certain highly proprietary database client which will not work under Wine or CrossOver (you can install it ... but it won't run) .. but VMware fixes this issue for me.

Also ... as I keep saying: Nobody is forcing anyone to use Linux. If anyone thinks that Windows is a better choice for them they are welcome to use that instead ... just spare me the brainwash about all the things I supposedly cannot do on my "too hard to learn" operating system, please :D I mean I don't go to Windows forums and tell the people there how much their OS sucks because it has all the viruses and all that!? Nope, I don't do that. So I'd kind of expect some similar form of "respect" (or whatever we want to call this) from Windows people ... And I am saying this in general, not directed personally against you or anyone else here, OK? :D
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Postby Uncle Bob on Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:33 am

Good so that's sorted then. BTW, I never said Linux sucked - you made that up.
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Postby veloct on Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:10 am

LOL, you people kill me with your "soap box" crap. To each his own, too hard? Live and let live?
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Postby Uncle Bob on Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Yeah, looks like we got carried away a wee bit...

...but hey; that's entertainment!! 8)
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Postby scorp123 on Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:18 pm

veloct wrote:To each his own, too hard? Live and let live?
Where is the fun in that? :twisted:

Just kidding ... you are in fact right :D
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Postby timmyflight on Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:01 am

I have vista ultimate and bianca on e my computer. I spent a day or two playing with vista to see what the bells and whistles were. (I won't even get into the fun I had trying to find drivers for my system :x ). The novelty wore off real quick.
I have my grub set to boot into bianca as soon as I fire up the computer,
and I still find myself primarily using Bianca..... You just can't beat it, in my opinion :D
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Postby bef on Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:47 am

I am fairly comfortable using Linux, especially Debian based distributions such as Ubuntu or LMint.

The only reason why I ever use Windows is for Photoshop, I do not deny that the GIMP has potential, however at this stage my efficiency and quality is at it's peak when using Photoshop.

If Photoshop is eventually released for Linux, then the GIMP will have to improve to compete, as I am fairly sure that loads of Linux users would be willing to pay for Photoshop. I think that competition is healthy, and is favourable to users. This will also be the case if PIXEL continues to improve and increase in popularity.
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Postby Souleestyles on Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:12 pm

I only use Windows XP ( my wife workstation) for just one game => World of Warcraft because i didn't pass to set up on linux at the moment. :?

NB : i thanks Bill Gates because to him i have worked as network administrator. :lol:
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Postby Sorensei on Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:56 pm

I've got to use XP at work, but now I've only got Linux at home.

Used to have Win2000 (which wasn't bad, except no way to play Worms on it), then they released XP and something snapped - no way I'm going to pay for an OS that takes away my control over MY box.
First I tried a dual boot just in case - worked like a charm - then realised I never booted Windows. My next setup was carefully designed to be Linux-friendly, and I never even thought of reinstalling any flavor of M$ on it.

Once you've tasted choice and freedom, who'd want to go back? :wink:
I don't have a solution, but I do admire the problem.
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Postby sanguinemoon on Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:10 am

My take on Windows can be summed up in one word:

Abomination
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Postby MikeH on Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:47 am

My take on Windows is that it was fine up to and including Windows 2000, which I still use at work. But it just seemed to me that starting with XP more and more security issues came to the forefront. It was probably just timing, but that doesn't matter to me. So I had to start running more and more third party programs to protect myself from the viruses, hackers, and spyware. Eventually Microsoft offered a 'solution' with One Care but it is no better, in fact in some ways worse, than the competitors. So we are forced into faster and faster machines to counter the performance drains of the 'protective software' not to mention the ever increasing bloat of Windows software packages.

Then last year I beta tested Vista. (Maybe I should say alpha tested. Current users are the beta testers.) The hardware requirements, to me anyhow, were staggering. 1gb of RAM recommended? Just to run the OS? To my mind that was crazy. And to back that up my daughter just bought a Dell E1405 laptop (Intel dual core, 1 gb RAM) with Vista and it runs slower than my 7 year old Dell Dimension 4100 with only a 1.0ghz PIII and 512mb running XP! When it was running XP. Even though she is pleased with the laptop she has said repeatedy "Why does it seem to run so slow?" So I have been trying to convert her to Linux too.

So that was when I started to seriously look at Linux. I had dabbled a bit before that but not seriously. I wasn't impressed. But now I had real motivation. I dual booted OpenSuse for a while with XP while I worked out what Linux applications could and would replace the Windows apps I was using. Pretty soon, I was only running XP in a virtual machine. Then I started looking for a better distro of Linux. I feel like I have tried them all. But I think I have settled now on Linux Mint. Current status of my home systems? No Windows anywhere except on my wife's laptop when she brings it home from work. Do I miss using Vista? Yeah, like I miss having a migraine!

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