Linux just aint ready

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Linux just aint ready

Postby belovedmonster on Fri May 30, 2008 6:38 am

I love everything about the open source community and the way that anyone can get involved. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside that all these people come together to work on projects which I believe will one day make a huge difference in the world.

But man, I'm fed up with Linux and it's bugs and quirks.

Maybe I'm just really unlucky but everytime I install a distro there's always loads of issues I've got to resolve.

I installed Xubuntu 8.04 when it came out a few weeks back and so far I've had to spend hours fixing or trying to fix loads of annoying little bugs; firefox not downloading files right, firefox installing the wrong flash plugin, the XFCE menu screwing up, my windows partition not mounting, my thumbdrive not mounting, rhythmbox giving me two error messages everytime I open it, rhythmbox now refusing to download album artwork, xubuntu resetting my grub menu to default into the wrong thing, the list goes on.

To be fair, not all Linux distros have been this bad, but even when it's gone quite well I've still had a couple of annoying little quirks that took hours of scouring forums to fix.

I'm just fed up of it.

Though why I'm fed up I dont know, because I came to the conclusion a year ago that Linux was at least 3 years away from being polished enough that it was a genuinely easy to use OS that you could ask a computer noob to use. At the moment all my problems are just supporting that claim.

In some respects Linux is so much better than Windows, but until you can install it without fear of several issues that need resolving then it aint going to be ready for mass market adoption.

I think from now on I'm always going to wait until a distro is like 3 months old before I install it, hopefully minimising all the annoying things to fix after installing it.
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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby GrayWizardLinux on Fri May 30, 2008 7:11 am

instead of installing all the time - find something that works or you can get working and stay with it. Maybe tweak less too.

I found then when i can get most of it to work - it is better to leave and use ths system then to add more and break more and tweak more and break even more.

that is my newbie perspective. My big problem is printer cannot print or work or be recognized. But generally most stuff works. So I live with and enjoy what i have.
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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby ed@Mint on Fri May 30, 2008 7:39 am

Yes, that is a good advice.
People should stop that 'I want the latest version of everything' mood.
You have to think a bit differently when using open source software... Latest is not necessarily equal to greatest.
Unless you can and like to fix the little quirks by yourself...

Time to quote a well know saying "Don't break it if you can't fix it and don't fix it if it ain't broken" :wink:

However, if you like to test new distros, i think the best solution is to keep one that is stable and works well on one partition and have one or several other partitions to test other stuff.
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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby belovedmonster on Fri May 30, 2008 7:49 am

That's all good and well if you already have a stable Linux installation, but what if you dont? Are we basically saying that new users should always install an older version of Linux? Or just that they need to bite the bullet and put up with all the initial crap you get from a new installation in the knowledge that once they have spent hours fixing it they wont need to do that again?

Either option sucks.
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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby ed@Mint on Fri May 30, 2008 8:06 am

Well you may have been unlucky with your hardware, but for me, as well as for many other people, Daryna has been an 'out of the box' experience.
And the 2.6.24 kernel seems to be resolving almost all the pertaining problem...

Now, once again it's a matter of choice, if you want a stable system, don' try to play with compiz, for instance, especially if you have very recent or exotic hardware.
This is just an example.

And, although, there will still be hardware problems (you seem to forget there are such problems with windows too...), the main skill to use linux nowadays is 'google search' skill. 99% of the time, somebody has had the same problem and solved it.

On a different view, and this is a personal one, using Linux is all about gaining control and knowing a bit better your system instead of being monkeys hitting blindly some knobs.
You can't just spit at Linux because it sometimes has a few quirks when such an OS is just given to you thanks to benevolent people.
Linux is a way of life, and if some people don't want to know anything about it and keep hit randoms knobs, well i don't know why they dont stick with windows..
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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby MALsPa on Fri May 30, 2008 8:24 am

Yeah, there are definitely two sides to the Linux coin. No distro I've installed, to include Daryna, was truly an out-of-the-box experience. At best, there's still some work to be done that requires a bit of Linux knowledge. Maybe that would be a turn-off to a newbie. But I think that if you're going to use Linux, you should at least learn some basics.

Once things are set up, the idea that "Linux just ain't ready" quickly fades, though.

Like ed@Mint says, "...using Linux is all about gaining control and knowing a bit better your system..." Perhaps everyone shouldn't use it; perhaps it never will be "mainstream."

I don't know, my thinking is that you can't expect something for nothing. You can either pay big bucks for something like Windows, or you can do a little work and take advantage of what Linux has to offer. I'll trade a little time learning some things for giving up my hard-earned cash, any day of the week! I'll tell you what, I used to spend a lot of time with XP trying to make sure that things stayed secure. In the long run, I think that with Linux that time is put to much better use...
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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby rivenought on Fri May 30, 2008 8:59 am

Of course, it could be that "Not everyone is ready for Linux." Honestly, some people actually might be chained to Windows for specific mission-critical and proprietary applications. In that instance when no Linux alternative is available, dual-booting or WINE could be a valuable option.

Unfortunately, some people want to move to Linux, but insist on lugging Windows-specific baggage and demanding that it function exactly as it did in Windows. Well, that person is setting himself or herself up for disappointment and possible failure. Windows does an excellent job running Windows programs. That person is not ready for Linux.

We all have different needs. There is nothing that I "need" in Windows. Every single "need" that I have is completely covered with Linux Mint directly out of the box. The only "would be nice to also have" issue is downloading the standard GNOME games package via Synaptic. See, not much of an issue at all, obviously. While my situation is different from others, I find that if Linux will not do something, chances are that I do not need to be doing it in the first place.

I do agree with the frustration of the newcomers who have hardware that does not have much support in Linux. Instead of getting angry with Linux, focus and vent on where the problem originates - the hardware manufacturer who does not release proper drivers. However, if one is careful in initial research and purchases supported hardware, one can and usually does have an excellent Linux experience.

It many times boils down NOT that "Linux just ain't ready," but that quite often "You just ain't ready for Linux." That is just an observation and opinion. Nothing I write is meant as a personal attack on anyone, but it is a suggestion for further introspection of personal "wants" versus actual "needs." Linux Mint is ready. Are you?
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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby belovedmonster on Fri May 30, 2008 9:09 am

I'm not talking about Windows baggage when Xubuntu decides to change my default boot up without asking me after a routine update, nor am I failing to learn to use Linux properly when I'm getting with several error messages simply from loading a piece of software in its default state.

This isnt about people not willing to learn Linux or expecting it to be like Windows, this is about Linux not being good enough, plain and simple. I should not be getting all these errors and unicorns bugs when all I am doing is using the computer correctly. It's a failing of Linux not of me or any other user.

The argument stated earlier about not using the latest and greatest is perhaps the most damning. Maybe I just need to accept that Linux isnt good enough until it's been patched a bunch of times. Like I say, I'm gunna start a policy of only upgrading once the distro is half through its life cycle at the earliest.
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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby ed@Mint on Fri May 30, 2008 9:48 am

Belovedmonster,

The major mistake you do is writing 'Linux' when you're just talkin about one specific distribution.
You only talk about xubuntu... How was your experience with mint, and other distros ?
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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby belovedmonster on Fri May 30, 2008 10:03 am

You are right. I am only using the examples of Xubuntu from the past few weeks, but that is because that was the straw that broke the camels back. I'm just fed up with having to tweak and configure things all the time and this was the final straw. :cry:

Maybe Mint 5 will be a relatively painless experience and restore some faith in Linux for me.
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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby GrayWizardLinux on Fri May 30, 2008 11:53 am

I said this in 2 other posts somewhere on this forum. Ubuntu - no luck getting most stuff to work - It Sucked big time.... Tried Mint bea or Bianca on 2 unicorns laptops and most worked but not all and better than ubuntu for sure. got rid of the unicorns laptops asap - actually one was a laptop with ubuntu installed that never worked and had a ton of issues - Not dell but another seller. terrible experience. half nice machine.

I did some homework and bought a refurb r51 thinkpad. Installed celena and all worked. laptop pooped out and no linux or mint - bought a thinkpad r61 new and better machine and installed daryna - most works great - but a couple of issues that the r51 did not have. but i still am very happy. Tried to install celena to see if more worked but had issues trying to get to even install celena. so i gave up. Was curious as to why I could not and if more would have worked with this laptop, but I will live with daryna. I would have been happy running celena on this if it all worked - no big deal. Matter of fact - if the r51 did not poop out I would still probably be running celena because it worked and i was very happy with it. so I felt that if it worked and it met my needs then why upgrade and do all my settings and install again. My point again is i would be very happy today running celena. I have not tried the new beta and even once that comes out - I will probably stay with what i have -Daryna. Not a big deal at all.

sorry for the quick post - working outside and just came in for a break.
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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby miket on Fri May 30, 2008 1:44 pm

Hi All,

Just to put this all into perspective.
I support both Windows and Linux platforms, and I often build both windows and Linux PCs ...

I don't think I have ever had a "Works out of the box" experience with windows, I always have to load drivers to get things working,
whether it be wifi, printers, scanners, sound systems or whatever, hardly any of them will work from a base build of windows.

This is the same on the Linux platform too, you have to have the correct driver or "Module" to do something.
Software bugs exist under windows as well as Linux, it's the nature of the beast.

I must say though that out of all the problems I have to resolve, there are always more windows problems/bugs than Linux problems/bugs.
I must also admit though that the path of least resistance is via the Apple OS X platform .... it is about as close as I have ever got to "Works out the Box" !!

Just my two pennies worth :)

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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby ed@Mint on Fri May 30, 2008 2:18 pm

Apple is a bad example, they sell hardware as well as software, so their OS is specifically designed to, at least, run on their machines.
That is the least you can wait for when putting so much money into it...
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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby Husse on Fri May 30, 2008 4:21 pm

I have done professional support for Windows boxes (not all that many though) and if I compare the amount of problems people have with XP with problems on Mint - well Mint wins outright
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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby donec on Fri May 30, 2008 6:21 pm

AvanceIT wrote:Hi All,

Just to put this all into perspective.
I support both Windows and Linux platforms, and I often build both windows and Linux PCs ...

I don't think I have ever had a "Works out of the box" experience with windows, I always have to load drivers to get things working,
whether it be wifi, printers, scanners, sound systems or whatever, hardly any of them will work from a base build of windows.

This is the same on the Linux platform too, you have to have the correct driver or "Module" to do something.
Software bugs exist under windows as well as Linux, it's the nature of the beast.

I must say though that out of all the problems I have to resolve, there are always more windows problems/bugs than Linux problems/bugs.
I must also admit though that the path of least resistance is via the Apple OS X platform .... it is about as close as I have ever got to "Works out the Box" !!

Just my two pennies worth :)

Mike.

Hey Mike, I have been reading other threads like this one and felt there was a need to put some things straight. Then when I was reading this one it started coming to me what needed to be said as I read post after post till I got to yours. Well, you said it all and left me feeling kind of deflated as you left nothing out and left nothing else for me to say except thanks Mike for putting it so well.
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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby Sakonim on Fri May 30, 2008 7:58 pm

I think you need to honestly ask yourself why you are using Gnu/Linux. If these problems are becoming unbearable and you simply want a trouble-free computing experience then I'd highly recommend you look towards the major propietary vendors (look to apple in particular, windows is simply too much trouble to maintain). If you're using GNU/Linux because it is commonly gratis then I'd say its slightly unreasonable to expect a totally trouble-free performance . On the other hand if you're using GNU/Linux here because you believe in the free software philosophy or open source approach to software development then you should simply accept it as a fact of reality and a challenge to overcome.
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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby miket on Sat May 31, 2008 5:03 am

Hi Ed !

ed@Mint wrote:Apple is a bad example, they sell hardware as well as software, so their OS is specifically designed to, at least, run on their machines.
That is the least you can wait for when putting so much money into it...


I'm not sure it's a bad example, but maybe an "unfair" example :wink:
But it is still an "option" :)


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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby ed@Mint on Sat May 31, 2008 7:23 am

AvanceIT wrote:I'm not sure it's a bad example, but maybe an "unfair" example :wink:
But it is still an "option" :)

The original subject of this thread is about Linux and troubles with hardware compatibility and the need to tweak & tinker.
So, as i said, this doesn't apply to Apple.
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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby miket on Sat May 31, 2008 10:44 am

Hi Ed,

ed@Mint wrote:The original subject of this thread is about Linux and troubles with hardware compatibility and the need to tweak & tinker.
So, as i said, this doesn't apply to Apple.


My comment is a result of this post by MALsPa on Fri May 30, 2008 1:24 pm

Yeah, there are definitely two sides to the Linux coin. No distro I've installed, to include Daryna, was truly an out-of-the-box experience.


I am not commenting "solely" on the original posting, but on the "overall thread" so it is a valid comment and on topic.

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Re: Linux just aint ready

Postby Fred on Sat May 31, 2008 11:13 am

Comparing Windows and Linux by the same yard stick is a non-starter. It is like comparing cars and airplanes. They are both modes of transportation, but beyond that they have little in common.

If you want to travel from London to New York, a car just won't do the trick. If you want to go to the grocery store 5 miles away, an airplane is a bit impractical.

The question of which is better is based on a false premise in the first place, so no factually correct answer will ever be arrived at.

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