LinuxMint vs Freespire

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LinuxMint vs Freespire

Postby mintero on Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:07 pm

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Finally, one more item for discussion in this week's forum. Over the past few weeks we have seen a number of positive reviews and comments about Linux Mint, one of the unexpected distro surprises of this year. Although Linux Mint is really just a re-packaged Ubuntu with out-of-the box support for proprietary file formats and some usability enhancements, it seems that this is exactly what many new users look for in a Linux distribution. It also seems that Linux Mint shares its philosophy with Freespire, another distribution with a strong vocal support for convenient Linux computing even if it means taking a few shortcuts on the issue of Free Software. However, unlike Freespire, which has been working on its upcoming version 2.0 since September 2006 just to reach another alpha stage last week, the developers of Linux Mint have already delivered three successful releases.


source: http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070312

The question is clear: LinuxMint vs Freespire.

Well, i am testing Freespire at this moment. So far two good and two bad surprises:

The good ones are: CNR (software warehouse) a really friendy way to install and manage software and a very good selection of apps installed by default.

The bad ones are: everything is installed on one partition and you start with an admin (sudo) account.

I think that Mint is friendly as well and more secure.

Your comments, please!
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Postby NiksaVel on Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:58 am

bah... Lindows has always done everything possible to be more like windows...

nuff said... :P
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Re: LinuxMint vs Freespire

Postby scorp123 on Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:14 am

mintero wrote:The question is clear: LinuxMint vs Freespire.


I find Freespire very lacking in many regards. It is way too dumbed down for my taste, too much Windows-like. And it suffers from the same problems such as Xandros, e.g. limited install options for the knowledgable user, too few packages included, it's not easy to install additional packages from the Internet (especially when compared to Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora and SUSE) without breaking things (been there done that ... both Freespire and Xandros are easy to break!).

In my opinion such distros may look tempting for the absolute beginner, but it's the wrong approach: You don't learn anything there, instead you are allowed to continue your bad habits that you learned from Windows.

Hence there is no question for me: A Linux distro trying so hard to hide and even denounce its UNIX-ish roots is not worth considering. There is nothing you can learn from such distros; instead you will soon find such distros to be too limiting.
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i think

Postby zonamint on Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:32 pm

I think CNR is not SO good...what can you do in CNR that Synaptic cannot ?
I personally dont like distributions that point to be similiar to Win XP =S

There are other changes...im not sure if FreeSpire is based on Debian ...but if its not, there you have an important one =)
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Re: LinuxMint vs Freespire

Postby mintero on Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:41 pm

scorp123 wrote:In my opinion such distros may look tempting for the absolute beginner, but it's the wrong approach: You don't learn anything there, instead you are allowed to continue your bad habits that you learned from Windows.

Hence there is no question for me: A Linux distro trying so hard to hide and even denounce its UNIX-ish roots is not worth considering. There is nothing you can learn from such distros; instead you will soon find such distros to be too limiting.


Well, I think that Freespire will help people come to it, but it wont be able to keep them. Once familiarized with linux, they will look for better distros. The reason is that Freespire is for hobbyists and enthousiasts. They will be curious about seeing what else exist...

As for Linspire, I think it can keep its customers. They are people that need it for work and not for adventures and they dont have time to spent in order to learn another OS . They just need an alternative Windows less expensive and without virus and spywares.
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Re: i think

Postby mintero on Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:16 pm

zonamint wrote:I think CNR is not SO good...what can you do in CNR that Synaptic cannot ?
I personally dont like distributions that point to be similiar to Win XP =S

There are other changes...im not sure if FreeSpire is based on Debian ...but if its not, there you have an important one =)

I'd compare CNR to Add/Remove Applications not to Synaptic. Synaptic is a powerful app but not very friendly to newbies. They would feel lost among 20000 apps not knowing which is the best to perform their tasks.

BTW, the next release of ubuntu will include the possibility to use CNR. And Freespire/Linspire will use ubuntu packages.

As LinuxMint is based on Ubuntu it would be a good idea to include CNR technology. An advantage is that during installation
the apps make a shortcut on the desktop which is useful for newbies.
installing thru synaptic, the apps of a desktop which is not the default one (for example kde apps in gnome environment) doesnt make menu entries and newbies dont know how to make customized entries and launchers. CNR allows software group installation (aisles) useful for time gain and for re-install.
That's why I said CNR is friendly.
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Re: LinuxMint vs Freespire

Postby scorp123 on Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:55 am

mintero wrote: They are people that need it for work and not for adventures and they dont have time to spent in order to learn another OS . They just need an alternative Windows less expensive and without virus and spywares.
That's why serious people use Red Hat and/or SUSE :D

Especially SUSE is almost "Windows-like" in that you only need to remember one command to configure everything: yast (or you may of course click onto the "System Settings" button in your GUI's menu). Red Hat is similar with its various "system-*" tools that can be invoked from the command line or from the GNOME "Preferences" menu.

And yet, despite this extreme friendliness, both are very powerful distros.

Besides: Someone who doesn't want to learn anything should search for another profession then. In IT you have to learn all the time :wink:

Freespire, Linspire and all the things you mentioned: Just look at how unpopular they are, please. People wanting to use Windows will simply stay on Windows (why use a bad copy if you already paid too much money for the "original"?). People searching for a serious OS won't use them, they will use Red Hat, the various versions of SUSE (SLED, SLES, openSUSE ....), Debian in all its variations (e.g. Ubuntu) and other serious distros instead.

As for "Adventure": Putting Windows on a system, that's what I call "adventure": You never know what bad electronic creature that originates in the dark corners of the Internet will hit you next :wink:
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Re: LinuxMint vs Freespire

Postby mintero on Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:44 am

scorp123 wrote: That's why serious people use Red Hat and/or SUSE :D

Especially SUSE is almost "Windows-like" in that you only need to remember one command to configure everything: yast (or you may of course click onto the "System Settings" button in your GUI's menu). Red Hat is similar with its various "system-*" tools that can be invoked from the command line or from the GNOME "Preferences" menu.

And yet, despite this extreme friendliness, both are very powerful distros.

Besides: Someone who doesn't want to learn anything should search for another profession then. In IT you have to learn all the time :wink:

Freespire, Linspire and all the things you mentioned: Just look at how unpopular they are, please. People wanting to use Windows will simply stay on Windows (why use a bad copy if you already paid too much money for the "original"?). People searching for a serious OS won't use them, they will use Red Hat, the various versions of SUSE (SLED, SLES, openSUSE ....), Debian in all its variations (e.g. Ubuntu) and other serious distros instead.


There are millions of professionals using Windows (lawers, doctors, professors etc) . I would never say that these people arent serious. They simply utilize the bad OS. The life of an human being is not focused on an OS. There are a lot of domains you have to take care about. You have to manage a multitude of choices and priorities in your life and it is obvious that you will make good and bad choices or sometimes not choice at all (in the case of windows).

Well, some of these people when understand that Windows is the bad OS they decide to use linux but that doesnt mean they decide to devote time to learn new things. It would be good to do so but there is always the question of time management. If you have a full agenda everyday you realize that in some domains you should pay attention only to the basic elements. In the case of an OS the essential is security and stability. Well, I agree with you that Suse, Redhat and debian branches are superior to Freespire/Linspire but we know it because we devoted time testing distros and learning linux.
Other people decided to utilize this time in order to earn money, travel in the world or learn yoga.

People focus on their interests. You work in computers and love linux so you think you must learn linux. Others work in finance and love financial independence so they think they should learn offshore techniques. If you think you should be good at all domains you will spent all your life learning...

Freespire/Linspire arent my favorite distros, but if people chose them, I can understand them.

PS Well the topic is Linux Mint vs Freespire and I have already considered LinuxMint as a better distro. I just posted to know other viewpoints.
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Re: LinuxMint vs Freespire

Postby scorp123 on Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:09 am

mintero wrote: There are millions of professionals using Windows (lawers, doctors, professors etc) . I would never say that these people arent serious. They simply utilize the bad OS.
Yes, and those people won't switch to Linux. Maybe to Apple and Mac OS X and that's about it. Different stories in corporate environments though, where large-scale migrations do occur, and where the trained office clerk and/or secretary doesn't care what OS they are running for as long as the applications they work with are similar to what they already know (e.g. similarity of OpenOffice.org with similar Microsoft Office apps ...) or are so easy to use that it requires no extra-trainimg.

mintero wrote: The life of an human being is not focused on an OS.
Exactly. And that's why in my server room we pick the OS that gives us the least troubles and does what we tell it to. The end-users and their constantly breaking Windoze clients are someone else's concern. Look at me: I can afford to hang around here all day long and even solve other people's problems for free (although my employer would probably take issues with that ...) simply because the machines I am responsible for give me soooo little trouble of their own :D

mintero wrote: Well, some of these people when understand that Windows is the bad OS they decide to use linux but that doesnt mean they decide to devote time to learn new things.
That's their fault then. Linux is not Windows. It's as simple as that. You always have to learn when you switch platforms. Just because you know how to ride a bicycle it doesn't mean that you shouldn't do some learning before trying to drive a car. Both are vehicles, yes. Both have wheels, yes. Both can accelerate, brake, turn, and so on. But with a car you have far greater "firepower" and horsepower under your control ... hence in most civilised countries it is therefore suggested you take some lessons before daring to drive one :wink:

Same with airplanes ... Just because you have mastered the skill of driving a car it doesn't mean that you are now entitled to fly an airplane. It takes training again and again.

So people know all this. People agree to these principles, people even find it a good thing that at least in the civilised world nobody can dare to even try drivng a car without risking serious punishment (e.g. or why else do you think police officers all around the civilised world want to see your driving license when they stop you??)

But when it comes to operating systems everything has to remain the same ... ??? :D So you know how to ride a bicycle (= Windows) and now suggest that you should be able to operate a supersonic fighter-jet (= Linux! ... if you want it to be like that!), a heavy cargo transport airplane (= Linux! ... e.g. a server!), or a Formula-1 race car (= Linux! ... stripped down and tuned for speed e.g. Gentoo!) *without* doing at least some minimum training or adaption? I question that logic. In real life it simply does not work like that. And I fail to see why it should be the case with operating systems :D

mintero wrote: Other people decided to utilize this time in order to earn money, travel in the world or learn yoga.
And they can do so even more if they have to spend less time by fixing Windows down-time :wink:

mintero wrote: PS Well the topic is Linux Mint vs Freespire and I have already considered LinuxMint as a better distro. I just posted to know other viewpoints.
The real "competition" (if there is any) is with the more popular distros, e.g. Linux Mint vs. SUSE vs. Fedora vs. Debian vs. Ubuntu vs. Mandriva ... IMHO.

It will be interesting to see how Mint will do over time against those popular ones.


Regards!
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Postby mintero on Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:49 pm

Dear scorp,

It seems that people think in different ways and not all like you.

Do you try to explain the superiority of linux? Yes I know that it is superior to Windows. Yes I know that it is worth devoting some time to learn it.
As for the other people, if they have different viewpoints, they will follow their own thoughts and not yours and mine. They will have made a bad choice of OS, but they might have made good choices in other domains.

People dont behave in a logical way. It is the human nature and not a question of seriousness. Well, you say they would have more free time with linux because they wouldnt have to fix windows. Well, I say you wouldnt have a boss if you had learned how to invest like me, and another guy would say I wouldnt have to pay huge taxes if i had chosen another country to live.

People are what they are. The important thing is how they feel.
They might feel confortable with Windows, Freespire, Linuxmint or without computer...
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Postby NiksaVel on Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:52 pm

without computer...


ack... ::shudder:: ... better steer clear of those types... :lol:
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Postby AlsaPhil on Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:22 pm

Dear scorp,
It seems that people think in different ways and not all like you.
They might feel confortable with Windows (...)
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I belong to those, feeling comfortable with you :lol:
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Postby scorp123 on Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:11 pm

mintero wrote: Do you try to explain the superiority of linux?
"Superiority" ?? No. For me it is "superior", but for someone else that might be different. What I am trying to tell you is Linux is not Windows. It never will be. It really is different. I therefore question the logic of someone who wants to replace Windows with something like Linux but refuses to do some learning. In my opinion such users should not switch at all but rather stay on the platform they know. Real life proves that you cannot do whatever you want: Each step you want to do takes plenty of learning before. Life is like that. You cannot expect two things to be the same, and you cannot pick up new things without investing some time and brain energy into it.

mintero wrote: Yes I know that it is superior to Windows.
That depends whom you ask. If you ask me: Yes it is superior. If you ask my colleagues at the IT department: It isn't. There are customers who use both, depending on the job that needs to be done; there are customers who are fanatic about their favourite platform and refuse to use that other OS no matter what. It all depends. De gustibus non est disputandum.

mintero wrote: Well, I say you wouldnt have a boss if you had learned how to invest like me
Well you see, until very recently financial stuff didn't really interest me a lot :D But you are right, it's a topic worth exploring. Any beginner's book you could recommend? (and no, I'm not making fun here, this is a serious question ... just to avoid any misunderstandings here ...)
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Postby bef on Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:58 am

The functionality of LinuxMint and Freespire has, to me, shown to be fairly similar. In my experience, both distributions have had very pleasing hardware support, with the exception of a few Freespire problems with onboard sound cards which require a small effort to amend.

Aesthetically, I do prefer LMint, in that I prefer simplistic and elegant graphics.

The only other real factor for me is the Ubuntu community, which LMint users can use for support.

Overall I would recommend LinuxMint over Freespire, although I do look forward to the next stable release of Freespire.
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Postby mcrofutt on Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:44 pm

I can't believe that ya'll don't know by now that Freespire is now based on Ubuntu!!
Freespire version 2.0 Alpha1U (1.2.42) is now available for download:

Download_Freespire 2.0 Alpha1U

Released on 08 March 2007
Version: Freespire 1.2.42
Size: 634.94 MB
MD5 Checksum: 81f3e44f91bd90d30dddc49012415d76
Release Notes

This is the first Alpha build based on ubuntu that might not be good for the health of a production machine. Expect improvements as future builds are released.

Some of the release notes:

* Automatic boot menu management does not always work. Do not install if you are not experienced at repairing Grub configurations and MBRs.
* No upgrade path available from Freespire 1.0 or previous versions of Freespire 2.0 Alphas (apt-get dist-upgrade might produce anomalies due to package name differences).
* NVidia and ATI drivers are not automatically installed.
* Jack has been removed -- any applications which do not use ALSA may not work properly.

Above quoted from the Freespire forums.

Ya'll have a good'un!
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Postby Boo on Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:39 am

Tools tools tools.

These are just tools to get a job done.
The OS is just the tool box that all your tools go in.

A Linux distro is a tool box full of tools, some have more than others, or newer tools, better tools, shinier tools/box, powerful tools, user friendly tools...
windows only comes with a few tools and it costs you big $$$ and then you have to buy more tools to get your job done so more $$$ and not much choice to boot.

now what was i ranting about again???

Oh yes, Joe/Jane Blow just wants a tool to do a job.

And if you are reading this forum you are doing more than Joe/Jane would be doing. They are using their tools (or attempting to).
:D
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Now where was i going? Oh yes, crazy!
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Postby scorp123 on Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:26 am

OK, we all had a rant or two here ... and I think this topic can be closed now, OK? :wink:

Here it goes ... topic closed.
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