So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby Condorman on Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:27 am

vayth wrote:Hehe, I'll be watching this thread closely.

I've been using Mint even now, but I always miss my time with Unity. Cinnamon is lighter than Unity, yes, but I haven't been able to replicate most Unity things with it. It's becoming better and better with its extensions. At least I got title bar on panel with Maximus (waiting for someone finally get the Global Menu/LIM to work as well, but it's optional).
I'm still missing dock on the left side (even on Windows, before Ubuntu introduced Unity, I've moved the taskbar to the left side). Cairo dock left panel overlapped with Cinnamon top panel, it's usable, but still a bit annoying.

I'm waiting for 14.04 release, but I'm also curious about Gnome Shell and ElementaryOS (Isis almost come out too). But looking at your review about Panthenon DE, I guess I'll try it last, or maybe skip it.


Why not just use Ubuntu?

:?:
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby craig10x on Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:43 am

Good point! Just as Cinnamon works the best on the actual Linux Mint, Unity really works best on the actual Ubuntu...which is why i moved backed to it :wink:
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby wanderer7 on Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:41 am

Adelante wrote:Oh, the Manjaro/Arch based, rolling release edition of Netrunner is really nice and, thank God, easy to install. I just have a few must-haves, like Netflix, Amazon streaming video, Dropbox and Focuswriter to work out before it's perfect, but I'll wait for the 64-bit version to go to the trouble.

:) Here it is:
http://www.netrunner-os.com/netrunner-rolling-64bit-released/
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby xenopeek on Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:17 pm

InkKnife wrote:Window widgets are the minimize, maximize and close control in the top bar of a window.

Ah, clear :) Double-click on the titlebar still does maximize/unmaximize. Minimize you can do from the titlebar's right-click menu, or Super+H. You can enable the buttons on the titlebar also if you prefer, using Gnome Tweak Tool. In Gnome Classic Mode (installed as part of Gnome) you also get a window list panel at the bottom, to track open & minimized windows. Though I looked at those options initially, it's working productively for me without that after adapting to the paradigm shift. Matt Hartley sums up my experience pretty much here: http://www.datamation.com/open-source/w ... ome-1.html

InkKnife wrote:Is there even one major distro which features Gnome3 as their flagship desktop?

Like Previous1 wrote, Fedora. Other's I've looked at are Ubuntu GNOME and openSUSE. I'm considering Fedora for a new laptop (still deciding on a laptop). I settled on Arch Linux initially as easiest to try Gnome Shell 3.12 on and I had been working up to try a real install of Arch Linux (instead of VirtualBox). I'm enjoying Arch Linux a lot also--the package manager (pacman) is incredibly fast.

JosephM wrote:@xenopeek, the nemo breadcrumbs always look like that with the adwaita theme. Changing to a different theme would most likely fix it.

Thanks! I'll give it another look once the last two packages for Cinnamon are packaged with version 2.2 also.
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby Adelante on Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:54 pm

Yay, thank you.

Linux Mint 17 Cinnamon
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby exploder on Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:56 pm

xenopeek, nice to see you having such good luck with Gnome Shell! I used Gnome Shell a while back with Fedora and liked it a lot. Things have improved greatly since I tried it, at the time it was not near as quick as it is now but it was very convenient on the laptop I tried it on.

I am running Ubuntu 14.04 with Unity on my recently purchased used HP 655 laptop and loving it! I see more and more people trying Gnome Shell and Unity these days. I like simple elegance and for me both Unity and Gnome shell provide this. There are also some great extensions out there for Gnome Shell!

I will have to take a look at Gnome Shell again and try out all of the improvements that have been made. I never thought I would like moving away from the traditional desktop but I like what developers are doing and to be honest I like the change. :D
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby xenopeek on Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:30 pm

exploder wrote: I never thought I would like moving away from the traditional desktop but I like what developers are doing and to be honest I like the change. :D

Exactly :) I never thought I'd go this route either, but both Unity and Gnome Shell have made great steps.

It's very fast here, and I have yet to have a single crash, halt, or freeze--despite basically stretching its patience every day by experimenting with everything not bolted down :lol: In average daily usage I managed to get Linux Mint 14 Cinnamon to crash or freeze multiple times per week... Might be it's just the newer kernel, but in any case I'm much impressed with stability.
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby vayth on Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:07 am

Condorman wrote:Why not just use Ubuntu?

:?:

Because Cinnamon is still more customizable. Although currently the default unity is still better than the cinnamon I managed to customize, but I still like to have the ability to it.
But yeah, I'll return to Ubuntu later today when it's released. Let see if Mint 17 or eOS Isis can tempt me to change again when they come out :lol:
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby exploder on Sun May 04, 2014 11:19 am

I am trying out Gnome Shell on Ubuntu Gnome 14.04 x64, so far I like it! I am going to give myself some time to get used to working with this! Gnome Shell seems nice and fast and so far I have not had any problems with anything. Gnome Shell sure has come a long way since the last time I tried it! :D
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby xenopeek on Sun May 04, 2014 12:05 pm

Gnome Shell 3.10 was indeed a big leap forward! I stuck with Gnome Shell due to further refinement of 3.12--small things like terminal has a dark theme and videos redesigned. Just the extra the polish I needed. I'm now 5 weeks on Arch Linux with Gnome Shell 3.12. Though the first two weeks or so I used a lot of extensions to get around, I currently have no extensions enabled and I'm absolutely loving the distraction free environment.
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby exploder on Sun May 04, 2014 4:56 pm

xenopeek, your comments about Gnome Shell did influence my decision to give it a try. :) I could add a ppa to get Gnome 3.12 on Ubuntu Gnome but it breaks the Gnome Classic session they included by default. I took a look at the Gnome Classic session, it was not anywhere near the same as Gnome 2x and I kind of thought it was cool.

I have been using the regular Gnome session and I am slowly getting used to it. I have not installed any extensions and I am getting along fine. I love the way they used effects! The interface is really clean and streamlined! I am going to keep using this and give myself some time to get used to it. :D

Edit: I watched some youtube videos about Ubuntu Gnome 14.04. I had no idea just how configurable Gnome Shell was! I watched a video where the person demonstrated many of the things the Gnome Tweak Tool could do, you could make the system look and behave completely different if you were so inclined.

I also found the Gnome Classic session very interesting too because it resembled the Gnome 2x layout with a modern twist too it. The Ubuntu Gnome Team really went above and beyond as far as how you can configure the system. Very impressive work! :D
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby xenopeek on Mon May 05, 2014 10:40 am

I've tried the classic session but indeed though it has the same two panel layout as GNOME 2, it looks and works still a bit different. I've not returned to it. Took me about three weeks to make Gnome Shell's way of working my own. Good to see you giving it an honest try!
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby Previous1 on Wed May 07, 2014 10:52 am

Trying GNOME 3.10 after Compiz/Emerald kept crashing on me in Fedora 20 (besides some usual MATE annoyances). And, I didn't expect actually liking the interface. Ironically enough it forces me to work with the keyboard, which is for me more effective, but not as tempting as the old mouse habit. That doesn't mean you can't use the mouse if you wish - but it's used differently.

As mentioned before, "distraction-free" is also nice - the system tray is separate, workspace handling is pretty intuitive, and I've found no real need for the old way of handling things. In fact, I've removed the "Classic" extensions as soon as I've installed them. The screen locker is interesting as well.

Not all is as nice of course. I couldn't find my network settings because the applet was removed, and it wasn't in the settings manager where I expected it to be. I was already looking into nmcli before I found NetworkManager between the regular apps. Unity does this better as you can find all settings by typing in "activities".

Definitely not light-weight either. Configuration... animations are all-or-nothing (and the setting is not respected between reboots). Another example, even after installing the Tweak Tool and dconf-editor, it's not obvious how to change my mouse pointer size. But using the interface itself is well documented. First time you start the Shell you're greeted with how to use it.

I hope I can stick with this one for a while. However, GNOME Shell was compiled with Wayland support in Fedora 20, which is not supported by fglrx. I don't mind the mesa drivers except so far they've all been but stable. Fingers crossed.
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby xenopeek on Wed May 07, 2014 1:09 pm

IDK how Fedora has it set up, or if this is just because it is improved in 3.12, but if I click the system menu (top right) I see my network interface there. I can click it to open a collapsed submenu, showing a link to network settings. Network settings is also show in the system settings. It works just fine, but yes I installed NetworkManager and its applet.

I'm doing most things by the mouse BTW. It took a bit to switch habits, but now I find myself on Windows (at work) also moving my mouse to upper left corner to try and bring up the activities overview :roll:
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby exploder on Sat May 10, 2014 11:04 am

I have been using Gnome Shell for a week now! The clean streamlined look of everything is really appealing to me. I do not like a pieced together look, everything looks like it belongs together in Gnome Shell. I am still getting used to the work flow but I am making much more use of the virtual desktops now.

I installed Gnome Weather and Gnome Maps and they are awesome applications! These apps are not recognized the same in Unity, there is no launcher icon, just a question mark and the do not show up as recently used apps... This bugged me enough to install Gnome Shell on my laptop. I have read about other applications that do the same thing in Unity.

I had to restart my computer before Maps would work but it works just fine now. I like how Gnome Shell uses pages in the applications menu now, for me it is much better than scrolling through them. Gnome Shell runs quick on both my desktop and laptop and they are both low end machines.

I like the way compositing is in Gnome Shell, little things like how dialogue boxes close out. I also like how the Gnome Team are building their own applications, Maps, Music, Weather, because not only are they useful they maintain consistency with the rest of the interface.

Forks of Gnome Shell always seem to have problems and I always have to wonder if an update will break things. I am waiting for Gnome Shell 3.12 to make it into the stable ppa before I upgrade but I like 3.10 and do not mind waiting. I know some people have already upgraded but I would rather wait to be sure that all of the bugs have been worked out.

I am really glad this thread was started, it gave me a lot of useful information! I have discovered just how customizable Gnome Shell is, it is one of the most customizable desktop environments there is! For all of the complaining about Gnome Shell the developers seem to have addressed everything! You can make Gnome Shell look and act just about anyway you want now.

Gnome Shell could easily be used on a variety of devices too. I wish my Dad was still alive to see this, he would be amazed at how much you can do with this desktop environment!
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby InkKnife on Sat May 10, 2014 12:12 pm

exploder wrote:
I am really glad this thread was started, it gave me a lot of useful information! I have discovered just how customizable Gnome Shell is, it is one of the most customizable desktop environments there is! For all of the complaining about Gnome Shell the developers seem to have addressed everything! You can make Gnome Shell look and act just about anyway you want now.

Have they put back in the features they stripped out of Nautilus? Can the launcher/dock thing be placed somewhere not pinned to the left, or better yet, eliminated? Can you have all the window widgets back?
I have been looking at video demos of Gnome and it does seem like after 2 years of ignoring their users they have added back in features they got rid of and have introduced more customisation and that is great.
But Gnome is still way too busy and screen dominating for my tastes while being dock centric which is something I never loved in OSX and the OSX dock is orders of magnitude more powerful than the Gnome/Unity dock.
Just seems to me that Gnome is still committed to a convergence oriented desktop and I think that is a fundamentally flawed basis for GUI design.
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby exploder on Sat May 10, 2014 12:39 pm

I sure like the new apps! I just installed Gnome Music and it is awesome! It has a terrific layout and it works great! :D
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby xenopeek on Sat May 10, 2014 1:49 pm

exploder wrote:I sure like the new apps! I just installed Gnome Music and it is awesome! It has a terrific layout and it works great! :D

Yup, Gnome Music is a joy to use :) If you like that, have a look at California the new Calendar for Gnome--from the developers of Geary. You'll probably like it too. It's still heavily in development though already usable. Screenshot on this introduction: http://blogs.gnome.org/jnelson/2014/03/ ... -calendar/

InkKnife wrote:Have they put back in the features they stripped out of Nautilus? Can the launcher/dock thing be placed somewhere not pinned to the left, or better yet, eliminated? Can you have all the window widgets back?

Nautilus does what I need it to, and I prefer it over forks like Nemo and Caja. I wouldn't know what you miss :wink:
The dock is on the left, but it's not displayed unless you go to activities overview mode (though you can display it always or intelli-hide)
As for window widgets (I assume minimize and maximize) you can enable those with Gnome Tweak Tool. There's various other ways to do the same as window widget would do if you need them (drag window to top to maximize, tear away to restore; keyboard shortcuts; titlebar actions double/middle/right click; by default the right click is set to pop up the window menu where you can minimize/maximize/toggle visible on all workspaces/toggle always on top/etc).

All in all, it works beautifully for me, and that was what this topic was about--my quest for a DE other than Cinnamon, which is going in a direction I don't enjoy.

InkKnife wrote:But Gnome is still way too busy and screen dominating for my tastes

Busy? Screen dominating? I actually stuck with Gnome Shell because it is the opposite of what you describe to me. Perhaps give it a try yourself; the videos likely don't focus on how you spend your time most of the day (just a panel at the top that you hardly notice).
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby exploder on Sat May 10, 2014 3:58 pm

I know that the more I run Gnome Shell and it's applications the more I like it! I get why they eliminated the minimize maximize buttons now, there is no need for them. I still need to learn a few more keyboard shortcuts but I am getting real good at navigating the system after using it for a while. :D
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Re: So long Cinnamon! Hello ... Gnome Shell? Unity?

Postby exploder on Sat May 10, 2014 10:10 pm

Wow! I just noticed that the Gnome Music app displays what is playing on the lock screen. How cool is that! :D
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