WHY!

[Pierre]

The last time I installed windows I spent a lot longer than that just getting the OS installed and updated, think yourself lucky.

Installing XP on my first laptop took me 1h30. After that you have the drivers and the softwares...

Try Windows 7. I lost 5 hours on installing and configuring it on my wife's PC (installing the OS, updates and software she needs). Worst part is, everything she needs comes with Linux Mint and her PC could have been set up in an hour if she let me install Mint on it.

every time that win_xp was installed,
- the audio card didn't work
- the video card had the wrong resolution
- the ethernet card didn't work

and when win_7 gets installed.
- the audio card doesn't work
- the video card had the wrong resolution
- the ethernet card does work.

with win_7, at least you can get on the 'net to fix the 1st two issues. ..

& with Linux Mint ?.
- typically, it either works (!)
- or it fails on on the video card.

or - do as the other 98% of the population does,
& buy a new one !
( & chuck out the old one )

[austin.texas]

Quote of the Day:

Can't install Windows 7, please help
"i've done all this, still nothing. Why the ____ have these people released a product thats meant to be so easy to use yet so impossible to install. Can i get a refund on this stupid product"
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... becffc326f

Moral of the story: Installing a new OS ain't always easy.

[killer de bug]

So Microsoft products are not that easy to install? Interesting.

[Jedinovice]

I can understand frustration when Linux does not work out of the box. I recently spent a very frustrating two weeks running through no less than 12 different distros trying to find one where everything worked AND I could do things the way I wanted. I came back to Mint with my tail between my legs. The double irony was that one piece of software I could not upgrade, it seemed, in Mint 13, became available for 13 and, when I re-instaled Mint down it came in an update.

Ouch!

However, I have used Windows 1,2,3.0,3.1, 95, 98, 98SE, NT4, 2000, XP, Vista (shudder) and 7. I jumped to Linux rather than touch Windows 8. I spent 15 years in software testing with DOS and Windows apps. I have built up MANY a computer with Windows from scratch. I have had to install different versions of Windows from scratch on different hardware to test software compatibility.

Installing Windows on a blank machine is NOT easy. The drivers are rarely in place at first and I had to check the hardware of the machine I was about to install, download the drivers in advance - hope I got the right version - and the install, re-start, install - restart, install, re-start. I have had to help the IT guy with Windows drivers for the old P4's we have used at the school I now teach in. He didn't know where to find the drivers. I did, because of my experience with Windows installs and their pain. I even fixed his old P4 which was running like treacle by identifying the problem was the video driver and installing the correct version. His machine spend up by around 400%. That's how much a single driver can make a difference.

Laptops with Windows preloaded are first set up on one machine with a blank install, then Windows installed, then the drivers added, everything configured, a restore system then put into place (you aren't given the DVD's any more - grrrrr!) and the hard disk is then imaged. All the other laptops of the same type then have the same image placed on the hard disk - like a die case stamp if you like.

When you buy a Windows laptop everything runs out of the box because someone has already spend a day, two, a week setting the machine up and fine tuning the install. Oh, and including all the bloatware and trialware they have to install to get sponsorship to cut the price of the machine. Anyway, a new Windows laptop works on start up because you are not installing the operating system from scratch. Trust me, installing Windows is way MORE painful than Linux.

Mint is actually very good at working on install. I have installed Mint 12 - 16 on a variety of machines and, so far, the one problem I have NOT had has been drivers - beyond a weird problem I have with an aged AMD machine which gave screen flicker which I have fixed. If the laptop is brand new, cutting edge, then there may be a driver issue. Linux lags behind Windows when it comes to drivers. But I have had the delight of installing Mint on all these different machines and everything has just worked immediately. OK, a slight fiddle with Mint 13 and 14 with wireless but it's one small tweak.

For most people installing a OS from scratch is too techie. So it is unsual for a computer 'novice' to even try. That's one major reason why Windows is so popular. It is pre-installed. Linux just isn't and its not likely to be for a long time. But Mint is pretty good for install.

In terms of condescending Linux users - been there, done that. Some Linux boards are filled with arrogant Linux users who spit on novices. I was learning slackware - a tough, very manual version of Linux, at one point (great start for someone like me) and one user on the forums literally told me to give up.

"Slackware is for the big boys. You're not up to it. Go with a noddy version like Mint instead."

Yeah, well, I got Slackware running happily on both my Celeron and Atom machines. However, Slackware does not lend itself to fast software installation (it was taking up to a week for me to get one piece of software to install with al its dependencies) with lots of compiling from source. So I jumped. Teaching can become very time consuming and does not allow for much tinkering.

But not all forums are like that and the Mint community here are very gentle and helpful.

I suggest we all tone down the rhetoric here. If, Jakwaa, you are feeling frustrating with everything not working just out of the box - we understand that! That's understandable and, yes we can vent. I have vented frustration here too! But, I assure you, the problems are you face are COMMON to all operating systems when the OS is not pre-installed by the manufactuer.

Mint and Linux may not be for you. But do not blame Linux for your problems. Honestly, I have spent years, nay, decades with Window driver problems. Every tried installed a soundblaster card under Windows 3.1 where you have to guess the port and IRQ numbers? Exactly.

We may be able to help if we have a little more information. What is the make and model of the machine in question? That will tell us the hardware. Then people can work from there. Or, stick with Windows. It's up to you. But don't confuse drivers problem with "Linux is crud."

[Hey, I hold that Linux WAS crud up until two years ago! The transformation in Linux distros AND the software has been incredible! Now I won't go back!]

[Jonmo1]

jakwaa,

I'm a new Linux user too, and I understand the whole issue with technical jargon in the forums. It is difficlut to understand.
But all this time spent complaining, and you haven't yet actually posted a question on how to resolve it.
You've searched for answers and only found jargon.
So make a new post and you can specify that you're new to Linux and would hope for a method using the Menus instead of terminal commands.

The fact that your previous experience with Windows comes from computers purchased with everything Pre-Installed is a Big Deal.
You didn't buy Windows off the shelf and install it on your computer.
Instead, you bought Windows from a Manufacturer (Dell, HP, Acer, etc..) who installed it on your computer for you.
And believe me, those manufacturer's spent plenty of time researching and testing and trying different drivers before they got it right.
Windows did NOT 'work out of the box' for them either.
But, you PAID those manufacturers to do that work for you.

With Linux, YOU ARE the manufacturer.
You haven't paid anyone to do that work for you. You have to do it yourself.

So start a thread and ask how to get your nVidia Sound drivers to work.
If the answers come back with technical jargon, it's OK and encouraged to ask for guidance, and for menu driven solutions.


FYI,

you have now convinced another person that this is the worst thing ever and he is off to find a pirate copy of windows instead!

I'm willing to bet you have just as much trouble getting that Pirated Version of Windows to work too.
You'll be finding out the trouble your Manufacturer's have gone through on your behalf in the past.

[monkeyboy]

If using Linux doesn’t work for you that is fine, enjoy another OS. There are many other OSs to chose from that might fit your needs and wants. However if at a later point you decide to give Mint another try please come to this forum first. I suspect you could save yourself a lot of frustration and time. JGO and enjoy yourself.