Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby FedoraRefugee on Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:23 pm

jasperlotus wrote:I don't like the way of words like ``on the kid's computers'' or ``distro for noobs.'' Computer's components are ugly, full of wires, capacitors, circuits, etc so it needs a case/cover and even a really beautiful and attractive one. System configurations are ugly too, so we need good user interface for fast and easy done!

Some say that Linux Mint just an Wondins emulator, oh, how great it is when you just click one, and another click to run your program instead of locate through a bunch of menu items to have the Terminal run?

PS: A small problem to me is that my girl friend isn't happy if I work on computer too long. She takes care of me, so I must think of our happiness, not just stick with the computer all day long to make the X window run properly on Arch :lol:


Those are YOUR words! :D However, you are the one who cannot get Fedora or Arch to run, even in virtualbox, which I assure you they do both run in.

You say computer components are ugly. I disagree. Many others do also, that is why computer cases now often have windows cut in them. When built right the guts of a computer can be very artistic and nice to look at, even without all the flashing blue and red lights.

Likewise system configurations are beautiful also. Instead of having surplus code and program upon program so you can have a little button to click with your mouse you have a single config file (rc.conf) that you can edit to change most things. Likewise things are easier to explain and easier to do with the terminal instead of many clunky programs. The reality is your GUI way takes much longer than using the terminal. Likewise using a mouse takes longer than just using a keyboard. Dont fool yourself, lack of knowledge is your problem. But that is okay, no one says you have to know all that stuff. You have a nice girlfriend to keep you occupied. The computer is just a means to an end for you. Arch is not for you, nor is Fedora. Stay with Mint. This is why they built Mint, nothing wrong with that. This is why I use Mint for my kid's computers. A good case in point, I just found out I have to reinstall Mint on my eight year old's computer...yet again. Him and his sister managed to bork it enough that I wont spend hours trying to straighten it back out. Why even bother? 15 minutes and Mint is reinstalled fresh and everything is good again. Cant beat that. Just dont think that because a certain shoe fits your foot that everyone should wear it!
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby IceCrystal on Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:04 pm

I tried Fedora a couple of times but i dont get the point wih Fedora, the distro seemed good but :?

One cool thing would be to do a distro based on Fedora with a new community if you know what i mean?
Instead of have a "test distro" for Red Hat that they use to test Red Hat software in.
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby FedoraRefugee on Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:29 pm

IceCrystal wrote:I tried Fedora a couple of times but i dont get the point wih Fedora, the distro seemed good but :?

One cool thing would be to do a distro based on Fedora with a new community if you know what i mean?
Instead of have a "test distro" for Red Hat that they use to test Red Hat software in.


Yeah, I have an idea for sort of a "fedora mint." A distro that is based off of Fedora but has the same goals as mint. Maybe even with mint tools ported for rpm. It would essentially be an rpm mint. It could be staggered against the fedora release cycle allowing the fedora release to mature 3-4 months before the fedora-mint distro was released. This is the time it takes for the fedora release to become stable. The goal, like mint, would be to not update but instead to just use the iso for the 6 months until the new release. Of course it would have its own repo and have an update system like Mint where updates are rated according to level. Needless to say neither fedora or mint branding would be used, it would be its own distro.

Just a pipe dream really, I do not have the talent or interest myself. Kind of a flight of fancy...

BTW, the point of Fedora is to be bleeding edge, not so much with the apps but with the structure. It is a great distro, it will always be my first love. I just feel that the developers are running it into the ground at the moment. It is suffering an identity crises.
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby IceCrystal on Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:50 pm

FedoraRefugee wrote:
IceCrystal wrote:I tried Fedora a couple of times but i dont get the point wih Fedora, the distro seemed good but :?

One cool thing would be to do a distro based on Fedora with a new community if you know what i mean?
Instead of have a "test distro" for Red Hat that they use to test Red Hat software in.


Yeah, I have an idea for sort of a "fedora mint." A distro that is based off of Fedora but has the same goals as mint. Maybe even with mint tools ported for rpm. It would essentially be an rpm mint. It could be staggered against the fedora release cycle allowing the fedora release to mature 3-4 months before the fedora-mint distro was released. This is the time it takes for the fedora release to become stable. The goal, like mint, would be to not update but instead to just use the iso for the 6 months until the new release. Of course it would have its own repo and have an update system like Mint where updates are rated according to level. Needless to say neither fedora or mint branding would be used, it would be its own distro.

Just a pipe dream really, I do not have the talent or interest myself. Kind of a flight of fancy...

BTW, the point of Fedora is to be bleeding edge, not so much with the apps but with the structure. It is a great distro, it will always be my first love. I just feel that the developers are running it into the ground at the moment. It is suffering an identity crises.


Only thing i would remove in Fedora is LVM, its a nightmare and one of the reasons i dont use the distro.
Then make a somewhat, better community.
In short words, make a brand new distro out of Fedora, there are not many Fedora based distros out there also.

Well, i think its about to know the right people in the Linux world to help with develop and be a part of the support for the distro in the community it would not be that hard if it where like that.
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby linuxviolin on Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:48 pm

Ah, the rolling -distro Arch... Well, apart from the fact that at each update you can break something (some time ago an update broke Gnome!), they are not even ****** to have a proper installer, even Slackware has one!

Fedora is not absolutely stable neither, also with some updates you can break something, already when/if the system is *almost* stable... In fact, between Ubuntu and Fedora, not sure about which is the most buggy... :roll: And not sure at all Fedora should be a good base for Mint...

P.S.= OpenSUSE is not bad, but "Microsoft Linux" :mrgreen:
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby FedoraRefugee on Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:01 pm

No, not as a base for Mint. A base for a Mint LIKE distro that is pure rpm and is geared for stability. Fedora is actually a very stable distro that is hampered by cutting edge packages. It is that way by design. It is...high strung so to speak. Once you get to know her and her ways you fall in love. No one is forcing you to keep Fedora updated though, this is what breaks things.

Likewise Arch. Just be aware of what updates you are installing. Some reading in their forum before you click that button is wise. My Arch is stable as can be...so far. Then again, I come from Fedora where I do expect updates to break things.
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby vrkalak on Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:19 pm

Up until a few years ago, I didn't know there was such a thing as a Linux OS for the masses.
Those were only for commercial systems and programers.

My ex-girlfriends son, a young teenager was having a bugger of a time, trying to download and install Fedora on his PC.
This was about 6-7 years ago. He had his own computer and was considered by most other high school kids to be a "geek."
He learned how to use C++ programming code and wanted whatever version of Fedora was out. (he never did get it to work)

That was the first I knew of Linux but thought it to be for the programmers/developers of C++ code and the like.
It wasn't until this year that I was surfing and found out about the Ubuntu OS. I did my research and learned about all the popular Linux Distros.
When I did come over to Linux it was with Ubuntu, as it was, stable and easy for a Linux beginner to learn.
I quickly tried Ubuntu on my way to LinuxMint.

I am not a programmer nor do I ever want to compile code. But, I do want to learn about the How and Why, my computer does things?
I have customised LinuxMint for me and I have gone into Ternimal. I have even logged into Terminal as 'root'
Using the Command Line still scares me, but I'm learning.

I like the ease and simplicity of a distro like LinuxMint, it gives me a platform from which I can learn.
I don't know if Fedora, RedHat or any of its off-spring would allow me to grow at my own pace. I would have to be immersed in terminal from day one.
And, I'm not ready for that.

In my opinion, it all comes down to a comparison between Fedora and Debian. Until people become comfortable with learning/experiencing their computers with an easier Operating System like Debian and its off-spring (Ubuntu/LinuxMint) they will never become primary Fedora users. As for the DistroWatch stats; the Debian distros are on the rise. LinuxMint included.

Watch out Ubuntu ... he we come!!
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby linuxviolin on Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:53 pm

Yes, yes, yes... :wink: "No one is forcing you to keep distroX updated" and "Some reading in their forum before you click that button is wise", but Fedora is very cutting edge, so a kind of "testing" area, some cutting edge technology are pushed in before complete or even for "testing" and so such as... and if you don't update a rolling-release (it's not Fedora here of course), hmm....

And for Arch, read the forums, of course but then this means other people have had problems before you (so you let others try and cope, not a very "community" attitude ;-) ) and also that Arch offers some potentially broken packages which you should not be trusted, this does not really sound like something worthy of trust ...

(I know, I am somewhat provocative, sorry :lol: )
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby hinto on Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:20 pm

I spent about 7 years in Debian SID before switching to Mint. The SID ride wasn't bad, except when KDE4 hit. What I learned from Debian is that the most valuable pieces are

1) Debian mirrors (almost no package hunting)
2) apt-get dist-upgrade (no re-installs)

I've got 2 quad cores, one AMD, the Intel. On the AMD, I installed Mint 7 then dist-upgraded to Karmic. On the Intel, I installed Karmic and installed MintTools.
(I had to update to Karmic for kernel reasons). I really like Mint 7 (hence installing the tools on Karmic). Ubuntu (or Debian) by itself had that "unpolished" feel that Mint provides.
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby FedoraRefugee on Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:33 pm

linuxviolin wrote:Yes, yes, yes... :wink: "No one is forcing you to keep distroX updated" and "Some reading in their forum before you click that button is wise", but Fedora is very cutting edge, so a kind of "testing" area, some cutting edge technology are pushed in before complete or even for "testing" and so such as... and if you don't update a rolling-release (it's not Fedora here of course), hmm....

And for Arch, read the forums, of course but then this means other people have had problems before you (so you let others try and cope, not a very "community" attitude ;-) ) and also that Arch offers some potentially broken packages which you should not be trusted, this does not really sound like something worthy of trust ...

(I know, I am somewhat provocative, sorry :lol: )


That's okay, it was kinda my point to begin with in my conversation with jasperlotus. We all require different things and we are just lucky that Linux can provide for many needs. He took it wrong when I said my kids use Mint. I am not casting dispersion on Mint, I am celebrating that it fills a huge niche in the Linux pantheon. As does Fedora. Fedora is not right for you, that is okay! Arch is not for everyone either. There is no competition, no one distro is the "best." They all work together. This is why I left Fedora. I do not like how they are changing, they are trying to become like Ubuntu, be stable for users like you. This is wrong, they are very cutting edge, this automatically precludes them from being uber-stable. You simply cant have both. People use Fedora to be on the cutting edge, they like the fast pace and they dont mind fixing things when they break. People use Mint because they like the stability and the ease of use. Everything is installed and works, you dont have to do anything, just enjoy it.

I did reinstall my boy's Mint 7 today. He was running Gnome as Xfce was not out when I installed it. I didnt DL Xfce this time, just left him on Gnome, it was good experience. This afternoon I downloaded both the KDE version and the Xfce RC. I also used zwopper's CD labels on a couple lightscribe DVDs. Burned them and booted KDE on his computer. He liked it so I installed it. Took less than 10 minutes, more like 5 to run through the install and let it load. Played with it for about half an hour and found it a bit buggy. I really prefer Xfce. So I installed that instead. Same story, 10 minute install and in half an hour's time I had everything perfect. No sweat. Try that with any other distro.
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby rhY on Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:29 am

I would switch all my userbase over to Mint TODAY, but for a couple of minor setbacks:

VLC does not perform as well as it does on Windows. This is essential. Everyone watches movies.
Flash does not perform as well as it does under Firefox on Windows. Everyone needs YouTube to go full screen snappily.

So lamentably I still have to use Windows on the majority of machines I set up for clientele. However, I have switched many office type people over to Mint, and they happily run Open Office and save .doc files all day by default and have zero complaints. I've even set up compiz for a few of them and they LOVE IT!

The other demographic that will not go to Mint is gamers. I've got a few to switch, since Urban Terror, Zsnes, and Mupen64plus all run well, but the hard core graphics card updating type still need MicroXP or some other derivative. Some of them I can get to dual boot.

Ironically, the #1 thing stopping most of my Windows to Linux migrations is the power of FOSS on Windows:

Firefox
SumatraPDF
Infrarecord
Open Office
Deluge
Pidgin

All seem to run as well or even marginally BETTER on a Windows machine.

I can't be bothered with the other distros. Every time I try one I want to hurl. Mint is 50x cleaner, faster, and better looking. Especially compared to the **** brown of Ubuntu.

As a side note, I'd like to congratulate everyone here in the forums. Even when I say something mildly inflammatory, everyone seems mature and friendly. In the Ubuntu forums I got flamed almost immediately even when I was being humble and cordial!
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby linuxviolin on Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:42 am

FedoraRefugee wrote:they are very cutting edge, this automatically precludes them from being uber-stable. You simply cant have both. People use Fedora to be on the cutting edge, they like the fast pace and they dont mind fixing things when they break. People use Mint because they like the stability and the ease of use. Everything is installed and works, you dont have to do anything, just enjoy it.

Interesting and good description :D I could use it but even, personally I guess I'll let them this "cutting edge distro which can break by design" :lol:

rhY wrote:VLC does not perform as well as it does on Windows.

Maybe but I have no problem with it.

rhY wrote:Especially compared to the **** brown of Ubuntu.

Ah the tastes and the colors... You know, there are people who love "the **** brown" :wink:

rhY wrote:As a side note, I'd like to congratulate everyone here in the forums. Even when I say something mildly inflammatory, everyone seems mature and friendly. In the Ubuntu forums I got flamed almost immediately even when I was being humble and cordial!

:D 8) :mrgreen:
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby jasperlotus on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:32 am

FedoraRefugee wrote:Those are YOUR words! :D However, you are the one who cannot get Fedora or Arch to run, even in virtualbox, which I assure you they do both run in.

You say computer components are ugly. I disagree. Many others do also, that is why computer cases now often have windows cut in them. When built right the guts of a computer can be very artistic and nice to look at, even without all the flashing blue and red lights.

Likewise system configurations are beautiful also. Instead of having surplus code and program upon program so you can have a little button to click with your mouse you have a single config file (rc.conf) that you can edit to change most things. Likewise things are easier to explain and easier to do with the terminal instead of many clunky programs. The reality is your GUI way takes much longer than using the terminal. Likewise using a mouse takes longer than just using a keyboard. Dont fool yourself, lack of knowledge is your problem. But that is okay, no one says you have to know all that stuff. You have a nice girlfriend to keep you occupied. The computer is just a means to an end for you. Arch is not for you, nor is Fedora. Stay with Mint. This is why they built Mint, nothing wrong with that. This is why I use Mint for my kid's computers. A good case in point, I just found out I have to reinstall Mint on my eight year old's computer...yet again. Him and his sister managed to bork it enough that I wont spend hours trying to straighten it back out. Why even bother? 15 minutes and Mint is reinstalled fresh and everything is good again. Cant beat that. Just dont think that because a certain shoe fits your foot that everyone should wear it!


Nice comments, too.

The fact is that the compability is my main concern when switching between distros, for now, I wonder if Matlab, TeX Live can run properly on the Mint as they do on Fedora, and also is it ``compatible'' between me and my girl friend? :lol: She surely cannot edit the rc.conf file to make things work :roll: as I know that the CLI configuration is much better than the GUI, usually, I install softwares through the command apt-get (yum on Fedora), set the screen resolution in xorg.conf, etc.

If I have more time (may be unemployed) I would try the Arch on the real environment. At the moment, on my virtualbox the Arch iso file has produced about 20 log files (errors of course) in my home folder and it doesn't boot up; my brother has an Arch laptop and he could help me much on that, but it is in the future.

Fedora (the live cd) just runs well on virtualbox, but the system cannot start X window after installing the VBoxAddition (may be the new updated kernel is the reason of fail). The dvd one, which is installed before my Mint system has the same problem with graphics devices, the X windows can't start after installing the Nvidia driver from RPMFusion (I guess the new kernel made problems).

Mint is just great for me and my girl, she really love it's elegant and me too.
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby jasperlotus on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:50 am

rhY wrote:I would switch all my userbase over to Mint TODAY, but for a couple of minor setbacks:

VLC does not perform as well as it does on Windows. This is essential. Everyone watches movies.
Flash does not perform as well as it does under Firefox on Windows. Everyone needs YouTube to go full screen snappily.

So lamentably I still have to use Windows on the majority of machines I set up for clientele. However, I have switched many office type people over to Mint, and they happily run Open Office and save .doc files all day by default and have zero complaints. I've even set up compiz for a few of them and they LOVE IT!

The other demographic that will not go to Mint is gamers. I've got a few to switch, since Urban Terror, Zsnes, and Mupen64plus all run well, but the hard core graphics card updating type still need MicroXP or some other derivative. Some of them I can get to dual boot.

Ironically, the #1 thing stopping most of my Windows to Linux migrations is the power of FOSS on Windows:

Firefox
SumatraPDF
Infrarecord
Open Office
Deluge
Pidgin

All seem to run as well or even marginally BETTER on a Windows machine.

I can't be bothered with the other distros. Every time I try one I want to hurl. Mint is 50x cleaner, faster, and better looking. Especially compared to the **** brown of Ubuntu.

As a side note, I'd like to congratulate everyone here in the forums. Even when I say something mildly inflammatory, everyone seems mature and friendly. In the Ubuntu forums I got flamed almost immediately even when I was being humble and cordial!


You should try Opera instead of Firefox; 4 years with firefox (I even translated the Vietnamese language pack for it) but just one month with Opera makes me love it very much, fastly, cleanly, beautifully, conveniently on both Linux and Windows.

Yeah! Everyone here in the forums is very friendly; clem, FedoraRefugee are great men on this forums :mrgreen:
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby hinto on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:53 am

FedoraRefugee wrote:they are very cutting edge, this automatically precludes them from being uber-stable. You simply cant have both. People use Fedora to be on the cutting edge, they like the fast pace and they dont mind fixing things when they break. People use Mint because they like the stability and the ease of use. Everything is installed and works, you dont have to do anything, just enjoy it.


It's interesting that you say that about Mint. Debian has 3 (or 4 depending on how you count) repositories
1) SID
2) Testing
3) Stable

Sidux, (as far as I know) is the only Debian distro based on SID and it is truly cutting edge. SID had major hiccups when it single sourced 32/64 bit software, updated Xorg versions, updated KDE. It was a roller coaster ride;)

Ubuntu takes a 6 month snapshot of Testing and runs it through it's own test cycles, fixes, etc. Mint and SimplyMepis (and a few others) come from here

Debian Stable is a workhorse. It rarely goes down, but the drawback can be hardware recognition for newer hardware.

Overall, I find that Debian Testing and Fedora are about even when it comes to new hardware features and stability. There is a place for both, in the Linux world. But for me, I realize that when I choose a distro, I that means that choose a repository. Debian mirrors provide a good "one stop shopping".
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby FedoraRefugee on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:06 am

I actually consider debian and Fedora to be "sister" distros. Why? This seems weird one is deb and the other rpm. But once you get past these differences they both seem to handle about the same, have the same feel. They are very close to each other.

I agree with what you say about Fedora being equal to debian testing. In the beginning of the release cycle I would actually compare it to sid, but then it becomes like squeeze in a few weeks as the packages get locked in and de-bugged. The problem is the bugs are never fully worked out and as soon as the version is released the attention of the developers is diverted to rawhide, which is the next release. Rawhide is actually the sid of the Fedora world. Even worse than sid, which you can conceivably run, rawhide usually remains pretty badly broken throughout the development cycle. It is only good for bug testing.

What Fedora lacks is a stable branch, a Lenny. I suppose that the final 6 months of a release's life can be equated to this. The release goes six months until the next release is released, then it lasts a final six months in conjunction with the new release. After this time it reaches end of life and is no longer supported through the repos. You can still run it but you no longer have a repo or updates. This last six months is usually problem free, it still has bugs, but they are minor and have been worked around. I would consider this to be enterprise class stable, but with the understanding that it is not 100% solid. It is too bad someone does not make a distro out of this. A rolling release that just continues the security updates. It would be a good cross between Fedora and CentOS.

edit: BTW, I like sidux, it is a neat distro and very stable for what it is.
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby hinto on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:38 am

edit: BTW, I like sidux, it is a neat distro and very stable for what it is.

Yes, I was a die-hard Kanotix/sidux user for about 7 years.
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby IceCrystal on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:52 am

FedoraRefugee wrote:
jasperlotus wrote:PS: Anybody can give me suggestions should I switch back to Fedora or continue with the Mint?


You want someone else to tell you this? :shock:

F11 is solid as far as Fedora goes. Mint 7 is the cat's meow. I use Arch. :D


Isnt Arch one of the hardcore distros? I came to a shell and gave up :D
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby FedoraRefugee on Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:20 am

IceCrystal wrote:
FedoraRefugee wrote:
jasperlotus wrote:PS: Anybody can give me suggestions should I switch back to Fedora or continue with the Mint?


You want someone else to tell you this? :shock:

F11 is solid as far as Fedora goes. Mint 7 is the cat's meow. I use Arch. :D


Isnt Arch one of the hardcore distros? I came to a shell and gave up :D


I would actually say it is not as hardcore as most think. It is really pretty easy. The key is you cannot be afraid of the command line though, and you need to have a good understanding of the different components in a Linux distro and know what you personally want. You should know ahead of time what bootloader you want to use. What audio, terminal, DE/WM, text editor, graphic viewer...You have to hand pick all your components. It is not a beginner's distro, but if you can follow the instructions it is not hard either. I would rate it much easier than Gentoo. Once you get X installed you can make it as automatic as you want. It can all be point and click if you wish. I strongly suggest the experience just for the confidence it builds. Another plus is Arch has some of the best documentation in the Linux world. Most basic things can be found here:

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Main_Page

But you would be amazed what you get with Google just by appending "arch" at the end of the search.
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Re: Distrowatch Mint vs. Fedora

Postby rhY on Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:44 pm

Opera isn't open source. Wherever possible I ONLY use open source. It's a philosophical and political choice that very, VERY often has real world benefits.

When I set up a Windows machine using all FOSS apps, I think that is arguably one of the most efficient, powerful combinations existent today. I still love mint though, and not just for compiz, though that is a big one!
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