I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

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Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

Postby ThE_ OnE on Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:26 pm

summerday8 wrote:I write this just to hope that my opinion may contribute to the Linux development.

I'm just about one-week-old in Linux and have tried many distributions including Ubuntu, openSUSE, mandriva, Linux Mint, sidux, mepis, damn small linux, fedora,...........(more than i can remember) with Gnome, KDE, XFCE, fluxbox. It is disappointed to mention none of them is beginner and user friendly. The one closest to the passing line is Linux Mint 5 XFCE (still a lot of aspects to improve). The following worth mentioning:

Do not expect new user to use Command Line. I believe even an expert in MS will face difficulties. Unless Linux is only targeting at the small group of IT professionals instead of the 99% mass users. If every new user has to spend a lot of time to learn the commands (if only and even if they have the time) is a waste of resources. The time saved can be contributed to the world well being. This should be solved and held responsible by the developers (I'm glad that Linux Mint 5 XFCE is heading toward this).

Democracy should prevail. User password usage should depend on the user's need and circumstances. If a computer has trusted users access or only one user access, meaningless time consumed in entering password is a waste of the world resources. In the argument of preventing hacking, this should be counter react by other measures.

In view of stability and number of new distributions, the former should prevail. I noticed that most of the linux developers are racing to release more and newer distributions before really making their current one stable. Personally, i do not appreciated it, somehow i feel that they are falling into a trap. Confidence loss! (couldn't connect to internet, help buttons doesn't work, crashing unexpectedly, chaos web site structure, command not universal, hardware drivers problems,.............................etc).

I'm just an ordinary guy making bakery products for a living. If too much time has to be spent in switching from MS to Linux, I would rather wait for several years later until they become reasonably stable. I have to go and make my cakes now (I wish i can spare more time in learning linux, but if everyone in this world sacrifice their productive time for the learning, the world GDP will go down, in other words, you may not be able to get a cake tomorrow).

Best wishes and respect to the Linux developers (the unsung hero!).




mmhmmm...I am speechless.
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Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

Postby Mike Jones on Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:42 pm

Just to say, as a new user planning to migrate totally to linux in a few years time, currently experimenting with dual booting. I am impressed with Linux.
Ever since Knoppix rescued my files when Windows crashed, I have had a positive view of it.
I have just waited until I felt I could make the jump from one to the other. I have tried a few distros and Mint is the most accessible so far, so thank you.

In response to "Keeping new user away", the point is that if you want a free distro then you have got to be prepared to "open the hood" and make sure the oil cap is on. If you want to do nothing, then get an Asus laptop or a dell with Linux preloaded. I have spent years getting used to Windows so its bound to take time to get used to something else. If I wanted Windows why would I be leaving it?

As a newbie, in my view, the crucial thing is to work on more than one computer at a time because its the wireless connection that is the first hurdle. Different distros work better than others with wireless. Mint found wireless in one of three of my machines, while Ubuntu did better. Having a laptop which enabled me to connect to the internet, it took me an hour to find the right help from these forum pages and ten minutes to set up wireless after that.

And finally, yes, I used the command line. So did many of us in Windows - it was far quicker to type wordpad than it was to find the thing in the sub menus.

Thanks to all who have put this software together,
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Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

Postby Algus on Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:38 am

I'm really sorry that you had so may problems with Linux topic creator. It is true that venturing into a new operating system can be very daunting. Unlike Windows, which comes preloaded on most computers, you will have to tackle at least some parts of the installation yourself. There are resources available though!

Ubuntu in particular is very newbie friendly and I must respectfully disagree with your assessment that there are no newbie friendly distros. The Ubuntu community works tirelessly to answer support questions and does their best. As long as you are respectful, and willing to do a bit of reading, you can get a tremendous amount of support from the Ubuntu forums. Ignoring for a moment the plethora of guides that they have made available and that can be easily found with a simple google search, the forums can answer most of your questions. The LiveCDs make it very easy as well to try out Linux without actually modifying your software.

Imagine what getting into Windows would be like if you had to install everything yourself and struggle with what Windows might do to your existing operating systems.

It might have once been true that Linux presented a daunting challenge to the novice but with easy to use distros like Ubuntu and Mint it just isn't true anymore. Heck, even partitioning is easy these days since Vista has a partitioner built right into it.
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Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

Postby Tithis on Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:01 am

It honestly sounds like you didn't give Linux much of a chance. All those distros in just one week? You wouldn't have the time to get used to any of them. If you aren't the person that's willing to learn then Linux isn't for you plain and simple. Linux is not Windows and never will be.

I almost never have to use the command line, about the only time I do is when I'm doing something outside of day to day activities, something more under the hood. About the only commands I know are sudo and gksu. Also whats wrong with having to put in a password? Its for your own protection, if Linux wasn't set up that way what would stop someone from installing software with some type of virus? Once you do it enough it becomes almost a muscle memory anyways.
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Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

Postby FlyingDutchman on Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:23 am

summerday8 wrote:I write this just to hope that my opinion may contribute to the Linux development.

I'm just about one-week-old in Linux and have tried many distributions including Ubuntu, openSUSE, mandriva, Linux Mint, sidux, mepis, damn small linux, fedora,...........(more than i can remember) with Gnome, KDE, XFCE, fluxbox. It is disappointed to mention none of them is beginner and user friendly. The one closest to the passing line is Linux Mint 5 XFCE (still a lot of aspects to improve). The following worth mentioning:

Do not expect new user to use Command Line. I believe even an expert in MS will face difficulties. Unless Linux is only targeting at the small group of IT professionals instead of the 99% mass users. If every new user has to spend a lot of time to learn the commands (if only and even if they have the time) is a waste of resources. The time saved can be contributed to the world well being. This should be solved and held responsible by the developers (I'm glad that Linux Mint 5 XFCE is heading toward this).

Democracy should prevail. User password usage should depend on the user's need and circumstances. If a computer has trusted users access or only one user access, meaningless time consumed in entering password is a waste of the world resources. In the argument of preventing hacking, this should be counter react by other measures.

In view of stability and number of new distributions, the former should prevail. I noticed that most of the linux developers are racing to release more and newer distributions before really making their current one stable. Personally, i do not appreciated it, somehow i feel that they are falling into a trap. Confidence loss! (couldn't connect to internet, help buttons doesn't work, crashing unexpectedly, chaos web site structure, command not universal, hardware drivers problems,.............................etc).

I'm just an ordinary guy making bakery products for a living. If too much time has to be spent in switching from MS to Linux, I would rather wait for several years later until they become reasonably stable. I have to go and make my cakes now (I wish i can spare more time in learning linux, but if everyone in this world sacrifice their productive time for the learning, the world GDP will go down, in other words, you may not be able to get a cake tomorrow).

Best wishes and respect to the Linux developers (the unsung hero!).


Conclusion:
linux is keeping new user away, that does not want to become a new linux user.
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Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

Postby marcus0263 on Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:12 am

summerday8 wrote:I write this just to hope that my opinion may contribute to the Linux development.

I'm just about one-week-old in Linux and have tried many distributions including Ubuntu, openSUSE, mandriva, Linux Mint, sidux, mepis, damn small linux, fedora,...........(more than i can remember) with Gnome, KDE, XFCE, fluxbox. It is disappointed to mention none of them is beginner and user friendly. The one closest to the passing line is Linux Mint 5 XFCE (still a lot of aspects to improve). The following worth mentioning:.

8+ Distro's in one week? Try VMWare then when one looks decent then try giving it an honest effort instead of "channel surfing". ;)

summerday8 wrote:Do not expect new user to use Command Line. I believe even an expert in MS will face difficulties. Unless Linux is only targeting at the small group of IT professionals instead of the 99% mass users. If every new user has to spend a lot of time to learn the commands (if only and even if they have the time) is a waste of resources. The time saved can be contributed to the world well being. This should be solved and held responsible by the developers (I'm glad that Linux Mint 5 XFCE is heading toward this).

Don't need to, I've got a number of my friends and family using Mint, including my 80 year old father. My father sure in the hell doesn't have a clue about how to use the command line.

summerday8 wrote:Democracy should prevail. User password usage should depend on the user's need and circumstances. If a computer has trusted users access or only one user access, meaningless time consumed in entering password is a waste of the world resources. In the argument of preventing hacking, this should be counter react by other measures.

As for the password comment, don't take this the wrong way but those who use root or admin accounts/privileges for their normal account are fools. Simply put it's suicide to run with root/admin privileges with your normal account period

summerday8 wrote:In view of stability and number of new distributions, the former should prevail. I noticed that most of the linux developers are racing to release more and newer distributions before really making their current one stable. Personally, i do not appreciated it, somehow i feel that they are falling into a trap. Confidence loss! (couldn't connect to internet, help buttons doesn't work, crashing unexpectedly, chaos web site structure, command not universal, hardware drivers problems,.............................etc).

Please a dose of reality here :shock: After how many years of dev Vista doesn't have compatibility problems does it? :roll:

Debian stable is Rock Solid if you want a fast stable system, if you want bleeding edge then learn how to resolve and/or report the bugs to the upstream developers. There's no such thing as a "free lunch".

summerday8 wrote:I'm just an ordinary guy making bakery products for a living. If too much time has to be spent in switching from MS to Linux, I would rather wait for several years later until they become reasonably stable. I have to go and make my cakes now (I wish i can spare more time in learning linux, but if everyone in this world sacrifice their productive time for the learning, the world GDP will go down, in other words, you may not be able to get a cake tomorrow).


Best wishes and respect to the Linux developers (the unsung hero!


Like I said my 80 year old father loves it and has been on Linux for about 4 years now.
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Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

Postby FedoraRefugee on Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:26 pm

Marcus,

I agree with you 100% and I know the feeling of wanting to respond to logic like what is displayed here is sometimes too hard to resist...But I sure wish you would have just let this thread die the death it deserves...

ThE_ OnE wrote:
summerday8 wrote:I'm just an ordinary guy making bakery products for a living. If too much time has to be spent in switching from MS to Linux, I would rather wait for several years later until they become reasonably stable. I have to go and make my cakes now (I wish i can spare more time in learning linux, but if everyone in this world sacrifice their productive time for the learning, the world GDP will go down, in other words, you may not be able to get a cake tomorrow).



I KNEW it! Damn that Linux, creating this recession... :roll:
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Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

Postby carandol on Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:56 am

AK Dave wrote:While some experienced Linux hands can manage to do everything from a GUI interface, the command line is integral to linux.


I find the opposite is true -- the experienced Linux hands use the command line because that's what they're used to, while the Linux newbies find their way round using the GUI. I've converted four people from Windows to Linux Mint in the last six months, and keep expecting them to come back to me saying "How do you do X? It's not the same as Windows!" but I haven't had a single technical query from any of them. These are average computer users, not power users (web browsing, office use, playing music & DVDs, sorting their photos, etc.) and they're all saying that the only real difference they notice between Linux and Windows is that it's a lot more responsive and reliable and they don't have to wait around for virus checks. None of them has had to go anywhere near the command line, because most of the things an average user needs to do can be done via the GUI these days, without needing to learn lots of arcane commands.
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Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

Postby NoClue! on Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:05 am

Summerday8. After a week long distrobation session, you go to Mints forum to blow your linux load........................thanks pal!
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Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

Postby pewterbot9 on Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:09 am

Fred wrote:My question to you is. What should the response from the bakers at the small shop be to this new baker looking for a change?


The little red hen now bakes her bread with Linux? :P
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Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

Postby monkeyboy on Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:45 am

write this just to hope that my opinion may contribute to the Linux development.

I'm just about one-week-old in Linux and have tried many distributions including Ubuntu, openSUSE, mandriva, Linux Mint, sidux, mepis, damn small linux, fedora,...........(more than i can remember) with Gnome, KDE, XFCE, fluxbox. It is disappointed to mention none of them is beginner and user friendly. The one closest to the passing line is Linux Mint 5 XFCE (still a lot of aspects to improve). The following worth mentioning:

A point to consider is that you probably haven't gotten to know any of the distros you listed in the space of a week very well. Often its better to find a distro that holds some appeal for you and spend additional time developing basic user skills with it. It will pay all kinds of dividends down the road.

Do not expect new user to use Command Line. I believe even an expert in MS will face difficulties. Unless Linux is only targeting at the small group of IT professionals instead of the 99% mass users. If every new user has to spend a lot of time to learn the commands (if only and even if they have the time) is a waste of resources. The time saved can be contributed to the world well being. This should be solved and held responsible by the developers (I'm glad that Linux Mint 5 XFCE is heading toward this).

The command line is just a tool if you don't want to use it don't. Just be aware you are going to cripple your experience on some distros and on other its going to be a longer involved process to get some things done. Linux is like Windows in that there is a very capable CLI available for both systems and while you can ignore or skirt it in both you are likely to miss lots of the good stuff without it.

Democracy should prevail. User password usage should depend on the user's need and circumstances. If a computer has trusted users access or only one user access, meaningless time consumed in entering password is a waste of the world resources. In the argument of preventing hacking, this should be counter react by other measures.

Look a little deeper some distros make it easy to configure security features to the needs of the individual user.

In view of stability and number of new distributions, the former should prevail. I noticed that most of the linux developers are racing to release more and newer distributions before really making their current one stable. Personally, i do not appreciated it, somehow i feel that they are falling into a trap. Confidence loss! (couldn't connect to internet, help buttons doesn't work, crashing unexpectedly, chaos web site structure, command not universal, hardware drivers problems,.............................etc).

Linux development is often done by small groups of people who deal with a number of daunting challenges like upstream software, firmware, available time, finances and the demands of their community users to name just a few impediments. Is it reasonable to expect everything to work right off the bat or in the way every user wants? I don't think so look at Microsoft and Vista.

I'm just an ordinary guy making bakery products for a living. If too much time has to be spent in switching from MS to Linux, I would rather wait for several years later until they become reasonably stable. I have to go and make my cakes now (I wish i can spare more time in learning linux, but if everyone in this world sacrifice their productive time for the learning, the world GDP will go down, in other words, you may not be able to get a cake tomorrow).

That is fine Linux is a niche market project right now, just like some baked goods are. Some folks are willing to spend a little more time and money to get a good tasting, hand decorated fresh cakes as opposed to the cellophane wrapped Tasty Cake from Megalo Mart.

Best wishes and respect to the Linux developers (the unsung hero!).
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Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

Postby DrHu on Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:44 am

summerday8 wrote:I'm just about one-week-old in Linux and have tried many distributions including Ubuntu, openSUSE, mandriva, Linux Mint, sidux, mepis, damn small linux, fedora,...........(more than i can remember) with Gnome, KDE, XFCE, fluxbox. It is disappointed to mention none of them is beginner and user friendly.

If a computer has trusted users access or only one user access, meaningless time consumed in entering password is a waste of the world resources. In the argument of preventing hacking, this should be counter react by other measures.

I don't know if you are for or against Linux in general, as you have gone through so many distributions and found most wanting..
--the developers have to provide for the general case
  • multiple users
  • multiple uses
Requiring passwords is just good practice, the fact that windows or some Linux distributions enable you to login in without a password, like windows 3x, win9x or win2000/XP does not mean that is either a good procedure or a correct method to proffer
--and I don't know how many world resources it uses (I don't call it wasted); I also think if you have a computer in a common area in your house, and have multiple users, you will need passwords, and I would suggest use a screensaver with a password (lock the screen) unless you don't mind any mischief or pranks
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Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

Postby FedoraRefugee on Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:30 pm

monkeyboy wrote:Do not expect new user to use Command Line. I believe even an expert in MS will face difficulties. Unless Linux is only targeting at the small group of IT professionals instead of the 99% mass users. If every new user has to spend a lot of time to learn the commands (if only and even if they have the time) is a waste of resources. The time saved can be contributed to the world well being. This should be solved and held responsible by the developers (I'm glad that Linux Mint 5 XFCE is heading toward this).


ROFL!!! So dont use the command line! :D Or just copy and paste the commands from the forum the .15% of the time when you do need to use command line. It is your loss though! You really shouldnt even be bothering with Linux with this attitude. Stay with Windows, it is better for you. Waste of resources? World well being? Developers held responsible? :lol: You are really fishing arent you?

Democracy should prevail. User password usage should depend on the user's need and circumstances. If a computer has trusted users access or only one user access, meaningless time consumed in entering password is a waste of the world resources. In the argument of preventing hacking, this should be counter react by other measures.


Pass that joint here! :D Democracy? Tell that to the guy who built the distro he is offering to you for FREE!!! I am not even going to get into the password thing, only a complete idiot would leave his computer wide open, Windows, Linux, Mac or anything else.

In view of stability and number of new distributions, the former should prevail. I noticed that most of the linux developers are racing to release more and newer distributions before really making their current one stable. Personally, i do not appreciated it, somehow i feel that they are falling into a trap. Confidence loss! (couldn't connect to internet, help buttons doesn't work, crashing unexpectedly, chaos web site structure, command not universal, hardware drivers problems,.............................etc).


If it were me I would ask for a refund! :lol:

I'm just an ordinary guy making bakery products for a living. If too much time has to be spent in switching from MS to Linux, I would rather wait for several years later until they become reasonably stable. I have to go and make my cakes now (I wish i can spare more time in learning linux, but if everyone in this world sacrifice their productive time for the learning, the world GDP will go down, in other words, you may not be able to get a cake tomorrow).


:roll: So use whatever OS is most productive for you. You do have a real point here though. You should be prepared to learn Linux, as easy as that is becoming it is still a fact of life. Say your cake delivery vehicle has always had an automatic transmission and you decide to get a new van with a standard. You should expect to set aside a few days to learn how to drive it before you are obligated to preform a delivery. Hey, this is just common sense, something i find people are seriously lacking these days.

I also wanted to make a suggestion about your signature. Even though it is in vogue these days you really should not take the name of the Lord in vain. It is not that doing so will send you to hell, it wont, but the thing is if you ever do find Him you will regret having done this. You will be forgiven though. Just a thought. :wink:
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Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

Postby slider on Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:45 am

Do not expect Santa Claus to wear a pink tutu. Do not expect the moon to appear in the shape of a parallelogram.
:mrgreen: Yeah!!!!


Seriously, it doenst get any better or easier than MINT! :)

I cant understand why anyone would think different. Everything worth doing has some sort of learning curve.

Thats what hobbies or spare time are for if a person cant manage to do it during they're day. :)
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Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

Postby slider on Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:53 am

GrayWizardLinux wrote:I use mint withoug ever using command line. only problem is I cannot use my canon printer to print so i have no print ability.


Try this site: http://software.canon-europe.com/software/0024301.asp?model=

I dont know what printer that you have, but they may have something there that might help. Other users have reported getting their printers working using drivers from Canon-Europe.
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Re: I Feel Sad Linux Is Keeping New User Away

Postby AK Dave on Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:34 pm

I feel sad that people keep replying to this troll who hasn't been around since 28 Sept 2008.
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