Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby kaixi on Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:21 pm

exploder wrote:
Great! :evil: :cry: :?
7 of my 11 computer's got intel graphics... :x


You will not be very happy with Jaunty.


The Ubuntu dev team is working hard to ready an update that will fix all these known issues, so I'm not particularly worried about it.

As for whether Linux Mint should be based on Debian, I STRONGLY DISAGREE. Ubuntu is known to be the best supported Linux Distro out there in terms of hardware, documentation, vendor support, etc. so keeping the binary compatibility between Linux Mint and Ubuntu is crucial. Sure Ubuntu is not as bug-free as Debian but that's the only thing Debian does better than Ubuntu. I mean, if we really want Linux Mint to be a user friendly distro, we should stick with Ubuntu.
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby landroni on Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:23 pm

Guys, from what I understand (and I may be wrong), Linux Mint is a rebranded Ubuntu. I have LinuxMint 6 Felicia Xfce (ubuntu 8.10), and I wondered whether there were a way to upgrade to ubuntu 9.04 [1]. I installed update-manager, but it seems not to offer the upgrade option.
Thanks.

[1] http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby Husse on Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:38 pm

@ landroni - Mint is Mint - you should not use Ubuntu specific tools
And never ever upgrade toa newer Ubuntu in Mint - the result is a disaster and not Mint
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby Zwopper on Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:48 pm

kaixi wrote:
exploder wrote:
Great! :evil: :cry: :?
7 of my 11 computer's got intel graphics... :x


You will not be very happy with Jaunty.


The Ubuntu dev team is working hard to ready an update that will fix all these known issues, so I'm not particularly worried about it.

As for whether Linux Mint should be based on Debian, I STRONGLY DISAGREE. Ubuntu is known to be the best supported Linux Distro out there in terms of hardware, documentation, vendor support, etc. so keeping the binary compatibility between Linux Mint and Ubuntu is crucial. Sure Ubuntu is not as bug-free as Debian but that's the only thing Debian does better than Ubuntu. I mean, if we really want Linux Mint to be a user friendly distro, we should stick with Ubuntu.

Ah I forgot - Mint is not supposed to be stable, it's supposed to be... friendly and flakey...
OK all we need now is to change that little leaf of ours to a little multi colored flag... ...and pretty soon we can all feel the feel the WOW! :roll:
In my opinion, mint started to decline with the introduction of version 6 when it all of a sudden was based totally of Ubuntu again as opposed to being based on Celena as before.
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby exploder on Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:12 pm

We need development that is independent from Ubuntu. This will be the second release that will be completely useless to me. Ubuntu is not going to fix anything in Jaunty, they are already set up for their next release. Linux is not Ubuntu. Ubuntu is not doing any of us any favors, they are making Linux in general look like beta releases.
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby rivenought on Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:19 pm

OK, I may as well chime in with my two cents...

I first started with Mint 3 Cassandra. I have never had any problems until Mint 6. On my hardware with Mint 6, the 64-bit version performs flawlessly, although the 32-bit version required "compatibility mode" to load the Live CD.

Over the weekend, I decided to give Ubuntu 9.04 a test drive. Neither the 32-bit nor the 64-bit versions would load from the Live CD. I tried every option combination, and eventually got to a desktop. My elation was short-lived since the video went black after a few seconds, and then I had the most unattractive vertical lines everywhere. Yes, I am probably certain I could have bypassed the live desktop and performed a straight installation. By that point, considering I was just testing, I lost interest.

Hopefully, Mint 7 will not suffer too much from the Ubuntu afflictions. Clem has performed miracles before...

Did I hear someone mention Debian as potential new base for Mint? :wink:
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby exploder on Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:39 pm

Sorry, no miracles that I am aware of, expect the same from Mint 7 because it will be based on Jaunty.
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby Husse on Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:43 am

The problem is that we don't have the resources to do much about the Ubuntu base but in my humble opinion we should do something about Intel video
The problem with that is that it's a bit like choosing between pest and cholera, you can make it better for many but that seems to make it worse for others And an update from Ubuntu may destroy our solution so it's not straightforward
What happened when we stopped building on the previous Mint and built on Ubuntu was that a large number of useless files disappeared :) - roughly
I think we should base on Ubuntu but if Ubuntu continues to get worse there is a decision to make....
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby Zwopper on Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:46 am

Husse wrote:The problem is that we don't have the resources to do much about the Ubuntu base but in my humble opinion we should do something about Intel video
The problem with that is that it's a bit like choosing between pest and cholera, you can make it better for many but that seems to make it worse for others And an update from Ubuntu may destroy our solution so it's not straightforward
What happened when we stopped building on the previous Mint and built on Ubuntu was that a large number of useless files disappeared :) - roughly
I think we should base on Ubuntu but if Ubuntu continues to get worse there is a decision to make....

Indeed!
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby icefire on Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:17 am

Thanks for all the hard work Husse. By the way, I removed 9.04 and reinstalled Mint 6-64 it is lovely to have my machine working at full bore again.
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby kaixi on Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:08 pm

Zwopper wrote:
Husse wrote:The problem is that we don't have the resources to do much about the Ubuntu base but in my humble opinion we should do something about Intel video
The problem with that is that it's a bit like choosing between pest and cholera, you can make it better for many but that seems to make it worse for others And an update from Ubuntu may destroy our solution so it's not straightforward
What happened when we stopped building on the previous Mint and built on Ubuntu was that a large number of useless files disappeared :) - roughly
I think we should base on Ubuntu but if Ubuntu continues to get worse there is a decision to make....

Indeed!


Come on guys, you're exaggerating, Ubuntu is not getting worse only because a Intel graphics problem that they're already working to fix it (at least, that was what they told me in the forums).
If you have a question that has been answered and solved, then please edit your original post and put a [SOLVED] at the end of your subject header.
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby exploder on Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:39 pm

Come on guys, you're exaggerating, Ubuntu is not getting worse only because a Intel graphics problem that they're already working to fix it (at least, that was what they told me in the forums).


You might want to become familiar with the bug report.
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby AK Dave on Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:32 pm

I'm happy with Jaunty on both my laptop and my netbook.

The laptop has ATI graphics, an older Radeon Xpress 200M that is no longer listed on the "supported" list so it is doubtful if I'll ever see a closed-source ATI driver for this card again. Which is not Ubuntu's fault. But the open source driver works great. Its only fault is lack of support for suspend/hibernate. Even compiz works fine, and that didn't happen with the older open source radeon driver.

The netbook has intel graphics. I'm not noting any issues. Flash plays fine. Video plays fine. Its not a game machine and the graphics adapter in it isn't impressive to begin with so the unimpressive framerate in Planet Penguin Racer is no shocker. Compiz is perfectly usable if I want it enabled. Ubuntu has stepped up with TWO good options for intel graphics users who DO need/want/beg for faster performance. There is the option to roll back, temporarily to the 2.4 intel driver used in Intrepid. This is documented on ubuntuforums, and I've linked to it on these forums. There is also the option to install the 2.6.30-rc2 kernel from Karmic and use the xserver-xorg-intel from that kernel series. Either option works well, but the Karmic option is awesome. I see PPR framrates jump from 16-20fps to 26-30fps on the same hardware by simply upping to 2.6.30-rc2. This upgrade is ALSO documented on ubuntuforums and linked from these forums.

Short answer: intel graphics woes may be a lot of whining about nothing that cannot be easily fixed.

The only reason I'm not currently using the 2.6.30-rc2 kernel on my netbook, despite the massive performance gains in video, is that the kernel seems to currently lack the wifi module I presently need.

I suggest for Gloria one of the two:
1. the Ubuntu base be maintained, WITH the stock intel driver that installs with Jaunty. BUT ALSO allow an easy "upgrade" for anyone who wants to roll back to the 2.4 driver from Intrepid. Its an easy swap, minimal change, works better for most than the stock Jaunty driver BUT it breaks with some chipsets. So it shouldn't be the default, but might be an option.
2. The suggested modifications to xorg.conf and /proc/mtrr (as documented in the 2.6.30-rc2 roll-forward) be applied into Gloria. This alone is as much of a gain as the Intrepid drivers and doesn't break any hardware, but scripting and automating the /proc/mtrr tweak is a little tricky.
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby midas on Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:48 am

Thank you AK Dave for the interesting news on video-cards issues on Jaunty. I also have an older (not supported) ATI-card in my laptop (Xpress 100). How can I see which driver is installed bij default? Is there a command in terminal? In synaptic I can see the radeon-driver is downloaded but perhaps the fgrlx-driver is better. If yes...what is a safe way of changing the driver from radeon to fgrlx? Thanks!
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby emorrp1 on Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:37 am

midas, you, like I, have been dumped by ATI. The latest proprietary driver has dropped support for R500 series and before (Mine is X1600, which is apparently R500). Thankfully the open-source ones have improved dramatically. So far I haven't had any major issues, or even irritating minor issues.
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby Husse on Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:41 am

Yes - ATI has pushed a lot of cards to legacy drivers - it's just the present generation that's supported by the latest drivers
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby midas on Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:32 am

Yes, perhaps ATI will in the end regret their practise of leaving most of their customers in the cold. No company will win a fight or an argue with a customer. In fact, Ubuntu is nothing to blame for...all the upcoming releases (Mandriva and Fedora) will face the same problem. I hope Ubuntu will do their utmost best to solve this situation. I hope Husse and Clem will do their best also to point us out which opensource drivers are available and how to properly install them. If it means that Gloria has to be delayed a couple of months...why bother? In fact it would be nearly advisable lagging some months behind the Ubuntu-release date. It is also what is being said in the dutch Ubuntu-forum: Wait for 2 months after the release-date when installing the latest release. A lot of bugs will be ironed out by that time. Strong point of Mint always was (is) the Mint-experience and everything working right out of the box. That are really critical quality- and success keyissues I think. NEVER leaving the customers (or community-members) in the cold. We ARE Mint...
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby emorrp1 on Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:40 am

midas, the open-source drivers get installed by default when jaunty/gloria can't find the proprietary ones for your card. I think two months is a bit much, a month is usually enough to iron out most of the release bugs (updates also drop off in frequency after then). Unfortunately, another month from now I'll be revising for exams, and I'd hate to have to blame mint for exam failure ;D. Then again, I'm impatient enough that I have a weird jaunty/gloria hybrid installed, so go figure.
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby AK Dave on Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:56 am

midas wrote:Thank you AK Dave for the interesting news on video-cards issues on Jaunty. I also have an older (not supported) ATI-card in my laptop (Xpress 100). How can I see which driver is installed bij default? Is there a command in terminal? In synaptic I can see the radeon-driver is downloaded but perhaps the fgrlx-driver is better. If yes...what is a safe way of changing the driver from radeon to fgrlx? Thanks!


If the fglrx driver were appropriate for your hardware, then the restricted driver app would have made it available for you. I'm sure that you could find a thread over on ubuntuforums where someone has found a way to install the flgrx from Intrepid, but I haven't looked or tried. Or cared to.

You could use lspci -vvnn to see what you're presently using. I find that easier to figure out than lsmod since lspci is sorted by hardware.
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Re: Ubuntu 9.04 looks nice

Postby midas on Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm

Thanks for udating AK Dave and emorrp 1. Good luck with your exams emorrp 1!!
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