How OGG PWNS WAV.

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How OGG PWNS WAV.

Postby metroid_maniac on Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:07 pm

I had spme homework to do. I got some appropriate MIDI files from the internet, and using Timidity converted them to OGG. I emailed them to my self, opened the presentation at school only to realise Powerpoint doesn't play OGG (should've known). I go back home, use soundKonverter to convert them to WAV. I put them together in an archve, and try to send it. Hotmail wouldn't let me, nor would Gmail. I realised that the total size of the archive was 40MB. My OGG files, together were just over 5MB. That's some s*** right there. Note to self: when low on disk space, convert proprietary formats to Ogg Vorbis!
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Re: How OGG PWNS WAV.

Postby Katzedecimal on Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:40 pm

Strictly speaking, comparing .ogg Vorbis to .wav is kinda comparing apples to oranges as they really aren't similar formats. .Wav is a high-definition lossless format, giving you the full range of audio sound - that's why it's used for commercial CDs. The non-proprietary equivalent is .flac (Free Lossless Audio Codec), which isn't well supported yet, only a few proprietary players recognise it, but is gaining in popularity for its high-quality sound.

.Ogg Vorbis is a compressed, lossy format, which means it sacrifices several channels of audio for the sake of squashing the file size down. This loss isn't too noticeable on a portable player and without anything to compare it to, but when played on good speakers and compared to an original lossless version of the same music, the difference is quite noticeable. .Ogg Vorbis is the equivalent of .mp3 and .wma and quite frankly whips both their butts. Rip a song off an original CD in .wav format, then convert the .wav into .ogg, .mp3 and .wma respectively (and .m4a if you want to be really complete) then listen to them on good speakers -- the differences are impressive and very noticeable. .Ogg Vorbis delivers a much better quality of sound than .mp3, for the same quality of compression (.ogg Vorbis files are about the same size as .mp3 files) The .wma sounds very muddy, definitely the worst of the lot, so if your friends can't play .ogg Vorbis files, give them .mp3s instead - it's the compromise. However, the only software player that I've found that doesn't play .oggs is *drumroll* iTunes! (I really do not know why that program is so popular.) Although some hardware players don't play .oggs (most notably the iPod, no surprise there), most do - I was pleasantly surprised to pop a CD full of .oggs into my car's CD player and it played quite happily. .Ogg Vorbis definitely pwns .mp3 and .m4a, and blows .wma right off the map.

Converting an .ogg to a .wav doesn't uncompress the sound, it just beefs up the file size because it gives you a high-definition version of a low-definition audio. Whenever I can, I prefer to buy my online music in .wav or .flac format, then convert them myself into .oggs or whatever format I require. (Not all online stores offer that option; Magnatunes does but CDBaby only offers music in .mp3 format :roll: ) Same if I'm ripping a CD, I'll rip it to .wav or .flac, then convert. That way I get the pure high-definition music for listening on the massive heterodyne-factory that my Best Beloved calls a media center, and a quality compression format for my car and player.
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Re: How OGG PWNS WAV.

Postby lagagnon on Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:53 pm

^^^ +1. Wonderful informative post there Katzedecimal. Thanks for sharing all the great info.
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Re: How OGG PWNS WAV.

Postby metroid_maniac on Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:16 pm

Fair enough. Now let me compare the size with FLAC and WAV.

EDIT: FLAC: 23MB
WAV: 36MB
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Re: How OGG PWNS WAV.

Postby Katzedecimal on Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:42 am

Yup! It's difficult to find original music in .flac format; most .flacs are ripped from CD .wavs. However, if you're lucky enough to find original .flacs, the quality of .flac is jussssssst a teensy bit better than .wav. But it is a smaller filesize for equivalent high-definition sound. So many people do convert .wav to .flac, since there is no real loss in audio quality. That's why .flac format is being picked up by a lot of European and some Canadian radio stations for their high-definition internet streams. The downside to .flac is that it isn't nearly as well supported yet, but as .flac picks up in popularity, that'll change. .Flac is offered by Magnatunes as one of their download options and I thiiiink by Jamendo as well.
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Dance without senses, no message I hear
Dance without feeling, I'll dance 'til I'm numb
Dance 'til I think I can overcome" -- Melissa Etheridge
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Re: How Vorbis pwns Wav

Postby sickie on Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:36 am

Well, Katzedecimal, some of your points made me a bit angry, especially when you mentioned High-definition. Let's see:
Katzedecimal wrote:Wav is a high-definition lossless format, giving you the full range of audio sound - that's why it's used for commercial CDs...

Huh? High-definition format? That doesn't exist. In fact, Wav is not a format, but an audio container, usually containing audio encoded in LPCM format (Quote from Wikipedia: The standard audio file format for CDs, for example, is LPCM-encoded, containing two channels of 44,100 samples per second, 16 bits per sample.)

Katzedecimal wrote:Converting an .ogg to a .wav doesn't uncompress the sound, it just beefs up the file size because it gives you a high-definition version of a low-definition audio.

High and low-definition can't be related to formats, but perhaps to samples and bits per seconds. High-definition is just marketing stuff.

Katzedecimal wrote:However, if you're lucky enough to find original .flacs, the quality of .flac is jussssssst a teensy bit better than .wav

Care to elaborate? I thought a decompressed .flac (to .wav) should sound identical as the original (.flac), not worser (or better).

---- End of Katzedecimal chat ----

What everybody should know is: .Wav is uncompressed audio but of highest quality (and biggest file sizes). Flac is compressed but not recoded, usually that's called lossless compression (sound should be identical to the original input). File sizes are quite smaller than .Wav's. There are lots of other lossless formats but I recommend .flac as it's not a proprietary format and it's gaining acceptance. But for most people and most audio equipment lossy audio is enough, especially on higher bit rates and file sizes are ridiculously smaller than Wav/Flac. Go .ogg Vorbis (Vorbis is the name of the audio codec, ogg is the container) or mp3 if you must.
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