GNOME dev proposes vote on split from GNU Project

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GNOME dev proposes vote on split from GNU Project

Postby dequire on Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:29 pm

It seems there's some serious unrest over at the Gnome camp having to do with, what else, Mono. If Gnome did leave the GNU project, what ramifications would that have?

GNOME dev proposes vote on split from GNU Project
They'll all look at me and say,
Hey look at him! I'll never live that way.
But that's okay -
They're just afraid to change.
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Re: GNOME dev proposes vote on split from GNU Project

Postby rich_roast on Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:38 pm

I don't know the inside story but this seems to be a lot of gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands over this, in particular:

Stallman wrote:The most minimal support for the free software movement is to refrain from going directly against it; that is, to avoid presenting proprietary software as legitimate.


Given that developers eat to live, and surely some/many of them must work for software companies producing proprietary software (depending on how we're defining that), or at a minimum might not have any opposition to proprietary software themselves, it is not surprising that if this is the official line that some of the people working for GNOME and wanting to have a voice through Planet GNOME are feeling uncomfortable... and leaving. This kind of impractical and partisan hardlining seems wrongheaded to me; surely the most minimal support for fsf is to simply use and promote free software rather than to ignore or present non-free software as illegitimate on that criterion alone (the only two alternatives I can think of to Stallman's mandate). It'd be a damn silly thing to split GNOME over, especially since it's over (what I call) a Voltaire paradox; apparently the free software movement promotes freedom for everything except for any software that's not free, just as Voltaire and Diderot's exhortations against intolerance are themselves intolerant towards intolerance. See how it's silly to see the world in black and white? I begin to wonder if this'll go very far, though, although it certainly seems to have poisoned the atmosphere in GNOME development and that can't be helpful in actually getting work done.
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Re: GNOME dev proposes vote on split from GNU Project

Postby nukm on Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:02 pm

dequire wrote:It seems there's some serious unrest over at the Gnome camp having to do with, what else, Mono. If Gnome did leave the GNU project, what ramifications would that have?


Actually,Stallman said he had no objection to it (mono) as Mono is free software; he, however, said he had a problem with C#.



Post by rich_roast on Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:38 pm
I don't know the inside story but
......Noted!

Well, that certainly shattered my equanimity. And here I thought my future using GNOME was certain and assured.

So, I've just ordered a new notebook with Win 7 installed. Not loyal to me - not loyal to them!

Oh, GNOME is just an app? Didn't realize that. I guess I'll not cancel the order though, cause Miguel says everything is cool with MS. And Linus too. RMS is such a prude, turning into a real Commissar. Brutish, he is. Pushing people around like that. You'd think he actually had something to do with GNU.
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"Radiation is good for you.Everyone should eat radiation to be fulfilled. (free translation)...Ann Coulter, circa 2011
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Re: GNOME dev proposes vote on split from GNU Project

Postby exploder on Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:04 pm

Weather Gnome splits from the GNU project or not is not going to have much impact on Gnome itself. Have you seen the sponsors Gnome has? Gnome has some sponsors with deep pockets and no love for Microsoft. Check this out.

http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/48972

There were predictions made a couple of years ago that said by 2012 Linux would take a large share of the market away form Microsoft. I read a report about how Linux is progressing and believe the prediction could be reasonably accurate.
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Re: GNOME dev proposes vote on split from GNU Project

Postby DrHu on Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:13 pm

dequire wrote:It seems there's some serious unrest over at the Gnome camp having to do with, what else, Mono. If Gnome did leave the GNU project, what ramifications would that have?

..what else, Mono...
Perhaps those Gnome members of that group interested in C# and mono (.net) development don't understand that Microsoft only really wants .net development to happen on the Microsoft OS, and only be cross-platform for windows developers..
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS6657173128.html

Despite the advantage to windows developers of being able to continue to operate (develop software) in the windows OS, while also enabling their applications to run (if they wish it) on the Linux platforms/distributions, using mono doesn't really help Linux at all, as it dilutes developer options on Linux..

Also they are forgetting that the main use of .net is in applications, and that mono isn't even necessary for that, since any cli compatible language will work
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2 ... ncerns.ars
http://boycottnovell.com/2009/09/24/moo ... -dead-now/
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Re: GNOME dev proposes vote on split from GNU Project

Postby FedoraRefugee on Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:37 am

The difference in the attitude in this thread and the identical thread in the Fedora forum is glaring!!! :D Over there they side with Stallman for the most part, except for my good friend Dies who sees the bigger picture too.

http://www.osnews.com/story/22610/GNOME ... U_Project_

I do not like De Icaza's plans ( http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2009/Nov-23.html ) and I think Gnome needs to keep away from anything Microsoft, but I also disagree with Stallman's stance. He just doesn't live in the real world...What more can you say?

Think I will ride the fence on this one. Linux is evolving beyond Stallman's (and Torvalds') dream. It needs to become commercialized at this point to be accepted. Like it or not it will have to work and play with others, including Microsoft. It will need to have the ability to incorporate proprietary software, though I see no reason why this should not be at the USER'S option. There is a place for Fedora and other 100% free distros and Gnome going with silverlight will hurt their philosophy. But the option is clear; DO NOT USE GNOME!!! It is up to the Gnome project to chart their own course.

Besides, I hate Gnome and try to use it as little as possible. So it doesnt much matter to me. :lol:
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Re: GNOME dev proposes vote on split from GNU Project

Postby nukm on Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:08 pm

<Besides, I hate Gnome and try to use it as little as possible. So it doesnt(sic) much matter to me. :lol:>

Hey, have you tried Win 7 yet?

<Like it or not it will have to work and play with others, including Microsoft.>

Didn't think of it like that - I just doubled my Win 7 laptop order! Work and play with that. We are one!

Stallman is a monster. I can't stand someone that won't bend. Damn principles anyway. The man obviously doesn't need to eat.

In fact, The GPL just filed suit against 13 corporations (including BestBuy) who have violated the GPL.

Who the crap does he think he is? Can't we all just get along?
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Re: GNOME dev proposes vote on split from GNU Project

Postby FedoraRefugee on Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:32 pm

nukm wrote:Hey, have you tried Win 7 yet?


Not yet, my copy is due in any day. I will dual boot it with Arch/fluxbox on my laptop.

Didn't think of it like that - I just doubled my Win 7 laptop order! Work and play with that. We are one!


No thanks. :D I sense it would be a waste of time. Besides, you might give me mono. :lol:

Stallman is a monster. I can't stand someone that won't bend. Damn principles anyway. The man obviously doesn't need to eat.

In fact, The GPL just filed suit against 13 corporations (including BestBuy) who have violated the GPL.

Who the crap does he think he is? Can't we all just get along?


A monster? Really? Come on now... :roll: Are you saying we should not have principles? He wants to see F/OSS remain free and open. I can understand that. Why should he bend just so you can get along? Are you that important that anyone would care to change his principles? Who do you think you are? :lol:

Of course I believe he has a screw or two loose, and I certainly think he has a disproportionate sense of self importance himself. But I certainly do not blame him for using his influence to try and guide Gnome where he wants it to go. :wink:
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Re: GNOME dev proposes vote on split from GNU Project

Postby exploder on Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:43 pm

I don't want anything to do with Silverlight We all know that Microsoft wants to do away with Adobe Flash and gain control over this type of multimedia. Control over this type of multimedia would create a dependency on Microsoft that I myself do not want. I have lived all this time without Silverlight and am more than happy to continue without it.

Mono does not bother me because it's presence in the system does not necessarily mean I am going to utilize it. I don't have a problem with interoperability between operating system and can understand the reasoning behind Mono. Stallman is unrealistic in some of his points of view. The basic ideas he has have merit but functionality also needs to be taken into account.

I can also see where the Gnome project needs to view things from a business point of view but anything Microsoft will lead to nothing but trouble in the end. No one that has ever partnered with Microsoft has had any good come from the experience.
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Re: GNOME dev proposes vote on split from GNU Project

Postby nukm on Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:14 am

I refuse to put <irony/sarcasm> on my posts.

Not irony/sarcasm - Stallman is consistent. He is a Green Party supporter. Their platform is ever the Communist Manifesto.

But, then again, Cynthia McKinney was the Green Party Prez candidate.

Not irony/sarcasm - "birds of a bad-hair day flock together".

This has upset me so much I'm ordering another laptop - and with Vista! It's a real deal!
"Books? Who needs books? They don't taste all that good." The American Connoisseur, circa 2010
"Radiation is good for you.Everyone should eat radiation to be fulfilled. (free translation)...Ann Coulter, circa 2011
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Re: GNOME dev proposes vote on split from GNU Project

Postby FedoraRefugee on Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:52 am

Save the planet, shoot a greenie. It will cut down on CO2 emission. :D
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Re: GNOME dev proposes vote on split from GNU Project

Postby nukm on Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:04 pm

FedoraRefugee wrote:Save the planet, shoot a greenie. It will cut down on CO2 emission. :D


You're coming along nicely. :mrgreen:
"Books? Who needs books? They don't taste all that good." The American Connoisseur, circa 2010
"Radiation is good for you.Everyone should eat radiation to be fulfilled. (free translation)...Ann Coulter, circa 2011
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