Any former Frontpage users?

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Any former Frontpage users?

Postby mintnoob on Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:23 am

Was your transition to Kompozer (or any other Linux web builder) a happy one and a lasting one? Or does Frontpage rule over Linux web building apps?

Be honest. ;)
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Re: Any former Frontpage users?

Postby Losgann on Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:41 am

I haven't really done any web work since 2004, but I worked full-time as a web developer for 4 years prior to that. So my experiences may be somewhat out of date, but since you asked, here they are for what it's worth: FrontPage SUCKS. I had a job where I had to use FrontPage because the other person I was working with (who had started the project) was using it, and it was a nightmare. I spent twice as much time fixing the crap code FrontPage spewed out than I did actually working in it. Once that person left and I took over the job on my own, I talked the management of the department I was working for into buying Dreamweaver for me, which made my life a heck of a lot easier. To be honest, I've always preferred coding HTML and CSS by hand, rather than using a WYSIWIG tool, but if you want to use the latter then Dreamweaver is far and away the best — it also made managing large sites with hundreds or thousands of pages much easier, though I still ended up editing a fair number of files by hand, as no WYSIWIG app will ever generate code as good as a person can, IMO. I will never, ever use Front Page again as long as I live, if I can help it, and I will also do my best dissuade anyone else from ever using it! (Hey, you said "be honest"... :wink:)

Having said all that, however, I haven't done any web work since I got into Linux (coming up on two years ago) so I have never tried Kompozer or Bluefish or whatever else is out there for Linux. I have to say, however, that if I had to manage a very large site, I would go for Dreamweaver, even if that means using a Windows PC or a Mac instead of Linux (I don't know if Dreamweaver runs well under WINE, I've never tried) and if it was just something small, I'd probably just code it by hand in gEdit or Kate or whatever, rather than using a specific "web building" app.

You've got me a bit curious now, so I might try taking Kompozer and/or Bluefish for a little spin after the holidays, if I can find a bit of spare time!
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Re: Any former Frontpage users?

Postby mintnoob on Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:48 pm

Thanks for your thoughts, but I should have qualified my post to beginner and intermediate web builders! I'm more concerned about more noob-friendly apps that will bring people over to Linux.

However, I've heard a lot from experienced web builders how Frontpage sucks, but I loved it -- for simple web pages at least! I never had a problem with the pages it generated and it was so easy to learn and use. I love how you can just paste a photo on it instead of having to upload of photo into it like you seem to have to do with all the Linux web editors I've tried so far.

The ease of use is why I still stick with Frontpage, just like the ease of installing and use is why people are flocking to Mint.
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Re: Any former Frontpage users?

Postby willxtreme on Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:05 pm

I used to be one. I like WYSIWYG because I need to get things done quickly but since I heard Dreamweaver was working perfectly on Linux and I used to use both, I went Dreamweaver all the way. You'll probably prefer Dreamweaver too because even if both are WYSIWYG applications, Dreamweaver's generated html code is more solid :D

To get it you must first install wine

in terminal:
sudo apt-get install wine

and then wine your Dreamweaver setup. Click here to get the setup if you don't have it.
in my case
wine Dreamweaver8-en.exe

and VOILÀ you're up to go :D
I tried Bluefish, Kompozer, Quanta and more WYSIWYG program for Linux but they either crashed or wouldn't do what I wanted so Dreamweaver wins.

You can also get it with Wine-Doors. In Mintinstall>System Tools>Wine Doors. Once its installed launch it (it will install some windows fonts & wine-gecko first but that's just the first time you launch it). It's the eleventh item on the list.

edit: They still haven't fixed the broken link to Dreamweaver8-en.exe in Wine-Doors lol :(

Before I knew Dreamweaver could be wined, I was asking about WYSIWYG applications for Linux and someone simply suggested me to learn html from scratch (which isn't a bad idea but I need the time for it :mrgreen: )
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Re: Any former Frontpage users?

Postby gravelbay on Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:37 pm

I have seen the crud that Frontpage generates and so I have never used it. It doesn't matter how easy it is if you lose over 15% of your web page visitors because the page only displays properly on Internet Explorer.

When I did web development, I did the coding by hand and checked it in several browsers. But the site only had about 75 pages, so it wasn't that hard to maintain.

Believe it or not, you can get great web sites with blogging software these days. There are some great professional level themes that are highly customizable and don't look at all like blogs. There are also some very good free themes. Here are links to a few sites my son built using Wordpress blogging software with professional themes that he has customized. It's far faster than building from scratch.
http://www.recycledpackaging.com/
http://www.halbowman.com/
http://www.upandoutofpoverty.com/
http://www.oakwoodfl.org/

I use WordPress for my blog and it's a HUGE time saver. But you do need to make sure you're on a server that doesn't do strange things to WP.
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Re: Any former Frontpage users?

Postby brainiac on Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:09 pm

I used Frontpage back in the day when I didn't know squat about html or css but was determined to have some sort of web presence (oh egocentric teen years). By the time I switched to Linux, though, I had already become proficient enough in hand-coding such that a WYSIWYG editor wasn't necessary. But I understand how some users may prefer a visual web editor to hand-coding.

One option for switchers to Linux who used a WYSIWYG editor on Windows or Mac would be to use Kompozer and edit a pre-made HTML/CSS template. I've found that static, html sites managed through an editor are becoming less and less commonplace and in their stead, (as gravelbay mentioned) dynamic sites are becoming more common to see (and use).

But if you want to use your own design, I suppose you may prefer to just run Frontpage or Dreamweaver in Wine. OR learn to code by hand, use a text editor like gedit, and do away with such WYSIWYG editors ;).

My contention with WYSIWYG editors is that their output of code is often not as "clean" as it would be coded by hand, but I realize also that some just want to see an end product they envisioned.
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Re: Any former Frontpage users?

Postby Husse on Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:37 pm

I stopped using Frontpage after a short time already back in 1998 I think
Produced totally crappy pages
When I washed the code it was reduced by some 40%
Image
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Re: Any former Frontpage users?

Postby mintnoob on Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:13 pm

willxtreme wrote:I used to be one. I like WYSIWYG because I need to get things done quickly but since I heard Dreamweaver was working perfectly on Linux and I used to use both, I went Dreamweaver all the way. You'll probably prefer Dreamweaver too because even if both are WYSIWYG applications, Dreamweaver's generated html code is more solid :D

To get it you must first install wine

Has anyone tried Frontpage with Wine?
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Re: Any former Frontpage users?

Postby mintnoob on Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:17 pm

I also found the app Amaya, but it won't launch after I installed the deb package.

Has anyone gotten Amaya to work?


Edit: I was able to launch Amaya by typing "sudo amaya" in the terminal, but Amaya seems very similar to Kompozer, so Kompozer would seem to be the best bet between the two.
Last edited by mintnoob on Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any former Frontpage users?

Postby mintnoob on Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:40 pm

So what's the best Linux WYSIWYG HTML editor for beginners?
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Re: Any former Frontpage users?

Postby mintnoob on Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:46 pm

Has anyone tried Openoffice's writer/web?

I never thought to try it cause I figured it was more-or-less like MS Word's html ability, but OOo seemed most similar to Frontpage on the surface.
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Re: Any former Frontpage users?

Postby holastickboy on Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:46 pm

Honestly, frontpage is the biggest bloat generator I have ever seen.
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Re: Any former Frontpage users?

Postby Chasester on Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:29 pm

I have to agree to the above comments.

Frontpage seems an easy method for the very beginner to get into. But it's buggy, full of security holes and hugely bloated.

Myself I went from Frontpage - dumped it in late 90's in favor of Dreamweaver, kept that for several years. Now that I'm on linux I've used quanta to very good success.

I also think though - if you can learn to do it by hand you'll be a better designer for it.
youth is certainly wasted on the young.
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Re: Any former Frontpage users?

Postby willxtreme on Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

mintnoob wrote:Has anyone tried Openoffice's writer/web?

I never thought to try it cause I figured it was more-or-less like MS Word's html ability, but OOo seemed most similar to Frontpage on the surface.


Tried Openoffice's writer/web and it's allright. Depending on what you want to do, you might be fine with it. I stopped using it because I had issues with "watermarked backgrounds" but that might have been fixed by now since it's been a while I haven't checked it.
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Re: Any former Frontpage users?

Postby mintnoob on Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:02 pm

willxtreme wrote:Tried Openoffice's writer/web and it's allright. Depending on what you want to do, you might be fine with it.

Can it handle a website of 20+ pages? Mine are all written in simple html. No fancy coding stuff.
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Re: Any former Frontpage users?

Postby willxtreme on Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:53 am

mintnoob wrote:written in simple html. No fancy coding stuff.

It should :)
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