Linux needs to master hardware to beat Windows

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Linux needs to master hardware to beat Windows

Postby remoulder on Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:52 pm

Interesting post by Keith Curtis, ex Microsoft software design engineer - http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/linux-ubuntu-windows-keith-curtis,news-32627.html
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Re: Linux needs to master hardware to beat Windows

Postby mintnoob on Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:17 pm

I agree with the article, but I think he misses one solution to bring about this change faster. It's sorta like the old chicken-before-the-egg debate.

He seems to argue that the hardware manufacturers are the ones who need to produce Linux compatible drivers first so all Linux apps will work properly and therefore Linux apps can catch up to Win/Mac apps, but I argue that if Linux apps were better to begin with, that would bring tons of new users over to Linux and when hardware manufacturers see this exodus from Win/Mac to Linux, they will naturally get of the ball faster and make more Linux compatible drivers.

As I keep preaching about how to make Linux more popular, it's all about the apps.

Now when I say Linux apps need to get better, I don't mean all Linux apps lag behind Win/Mac apps. I think a LOT of Linux apps are good enough, or even better. However there are still a few areas where Linux apps lag behind, notable in the area of video editing.
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Re: Linux needs to master hardware to beat Windows

Postby remoulder on Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:28 pm

mintnoob wrote:I argue that if Linux apps were better to begin with, that would bring tons of new users over to Linux and when hardware manufacturers see this exodus from Win/Mac to Linux, they will naturally get of the ball faster and make more Linux compatible drivers


But all these users flocking over are going to quickly go back to Windows or Mac if they can't get their hardware to work. As you say chicken and egg.

mintnoob wrote:I think a LOT of Linux apps are good enough, or even better. However there are still a few areas where Linux apps lag behind


I must disagree with you a little here. Whilst I know coders try their hardest, and in many cases succeed, in general I find many apps in Linux limited and basic compared to their Windows counterparts. This is sometimes down to having to "re-invent the wheel" so to speak, but other problem area are non-standard guifications, options/preferences and in many cases an assumption of knowledge that even old hands may not have. An example of this last might be in a dialog that asks for the location of say a CD and presents just a text box in which users are expected to know they have to enter something like /media/cdrom!

The reason for this difference is simple, money. Whilst in general Windows developers expect to get paid for their work, on open-source this is mostly not the case. Also apart from the shareware scene, most Windows apps are developed by software houses which have proper design teams, workflow management, quality control and testing and of course marketing. Linux developers in general (and I'll probably get flamed for this) just don't have the same pressures and incentives, namely getting paid. There are of course exceptions to this and team collaboration seems to be happening much more. I'm not referring to distros here, obviously Canonical, Fedora, Novell, etc are professional software outfits, but to a lot of the projects on sourceforge.
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Re: Linux needs to master hardware to beat Windows

Postby DrHu on Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:53 pm

If the problem is being seen as beating windows at their own game: wrapping up OEMs' and hardware manufacturers including Intel, although they also do their own thing and are just as competitive as Microsoft in the processor markets (Intel vs AMD)
    Then we can't expect Linux to ever beat out windows, the incumbent always has the advantage of home court

As well beating Windows is not Linux's forte, it is simply that Linux is in many ways the better choice
Why for example are governments and agencies not using Linux and OSS more; are they really so stuck on Office suite and outlook, and windows OS, that they can't see the better (for them) advantages of going to OSS; like OpenOffice
    As well as the security of source

I mean all those agencies like the US navy submarine fleet going to Windows instead of maintaining their reliable Unix style system, etc etc
    Are we all just suckers for a good game
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Re: Linux needs to master hardware to beat Windows

Postby remoulder on Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:14 pm

DrHu wrote:beating Windows is not Linux's forte


Completely agree, and that is what seems to confuse a lot of people who only see commercial success as the motivating factor.

DrHu wrote:Why for example are governments and agencies not using Linux and OSS more; are they really so stuck on Office suite and outlook, and windows OS, that they can't see the better (for them) advantages of going to OSS; like OpenOffice


The problem is the ones who make the decisions are often the ones who are most easily swayed by big company power and funds and the ones least likely to be affected by their decisions. :lol:
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Re: Linux needs to master hardware to beat Windows

Postby Stealing_Lillies on Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:42 pm

I think this topic is about like trying to get the world off of oil and use cleaner more efficient fuels. With source - where is the payoffs to government and other agencies? Who gets anything out of it other than us little guys? I don't think the balance of power is going to change over night because of a few egg heads like us.

This is where I see distros like Mint & Ubuntu coming in: A friendly user distro that - even a computer illiterate idiot that is setting in some government office with a $300,000.oo dollar education that struggles to navigate "My Documents" and basic computer applications - That can now use linux just as pain struggling as they could do with windows - thus slowly swaying the balance. (Example: Just the other day - I had to show a guy where I work how to MINIMIZE a window and he makes over 100k a year more than I do.)

I think its exactly like DrHu says: "As well beating Windows is not Linux's forte, it is simply that Linux is in many ways the better choice."

But unfortunately, better does not always pay (the right people) thus it will take a greater population "asking for linux" because it is just as user friendly as any other available and hardware issues are part of it just like Keith Curtis talks about. I find his book very insightful and a willingness to stick himself out there a little leaving little excuses for big buisness/corp. But in the same token - I smell a bit of a disgruntle mixed in his words - Why does his book cost 16 bucks. :twisted:
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Re: Linux needs to master hardware to beat Windows

Postby lexon on Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:48 am

Until Linux gets a figure head like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, Linux will only be a footnote with hardware. That is the reality we live in. Deal with it.
The downside, large companies like this want to own you. It could happen with Linux if someone ever gets a way to bring Linux to the for front. They will have to make a way to get hardware companies "fall in line" like Microsoft has.
As an example, Google has got Ubuntu and Mint to “fall in line”. It is called, “Control”.
Apple is making Linux hardware a footnote.
Yes, I love Linux and it is all I use for the last six years except for a new type of digital camera media that requires a Windows PC.

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Re: Linux needs to master hardware to beat Windows

Postby remoulder on Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:39 pm

lexon wrote:Until Linux gets a figure head like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs


Larry Ellison perhaps?
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Re: Linux needs to master hardware to beat Windows

Postby ers1121 on Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:44 pm

I have read a lot of good points here, but lets face it Linux will NEVER beat Windows. It works better, it is just as easy to use as Windows; it is free!! That is probably the biggest reason it will never beat Windows. Big bucks corporate america will never allow it to happen. I have been using Mint for about 6 months now, a few minor problems at first, but once I got used to it; no problem.
There is too much specialized software out there that has no Linux alternative; I have six programs on my system at work that need Windows, I have no choice. At home I seldom boot into Vista anymore, except for my radio scanners Mint does it all. One reason I'm glad Windows will never go away, I make good part-time money fixing it. Yes I can be just as greedy as the corporate types.
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Re: Linux needs to master hardware to beat Windows

Postby myspacecommassergio on Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:05 pm

I didn't get what he was saying about windows but the writter of that article has my vote on hardware being the biggest hurdle for linux
+1

Good Post, Thanks op.
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Re: Linux needs to master hardware to beat Windows

Postby Fluxx on Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:18 pm

Then there are those of us who don't care about beating Windows. They give out an award for that? :"Beating"--does that mean being more popular? Putting them out of business? What does that mean, exactly? Are we still in high school, trying to be popular, or "number 1"--???

I'm beginning to agree with the elder techies here who believe we were better off before "they" tried to get us more graphical and user friendly...If we could just do our own thing, we probably would not be doomed by the latest and greatest farce--I'm sorry, I meant 'force'--in "Open Source Development." (And it's been pointed out elsewhere that the corporations are taking over...)

I think too much is made of competition in this world. We all face the same problems, and cooperation is far superior to competition as a virtue. There will always be people who are superior in intellect or strength or who are better looking; conversely, you will always find someone who is inferior to you in intellect or strength or who is uglier.

Get over it and grow up. We're not "beating' anyone for long. Even the strong eventually get week.

Enjoy your moment in the sun.
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Re: Linux needs to master hardware to beat Windows

Postby myspacecommassergio on Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:49 pm

i think what the op meant was that if all hardware was supported that it would beat windows as in windows is always putting linux down with monoplies, it's always taking others ideas through piracy but claiming the glory and profit for themselves and not giving back to the communties wich they got they're new ideas from *cough* KDE. Beating as in - They tried to shut down the community but we're still here with more improvements to come... i think thats what the op meant I'm not sure.

Seriously if the hardware hurdel got jumped who would even care about windows in any way? Heck I think even video game developers would start realeasing more Linux Games or ports of windows games simuteanulously for both OS.

Just my opinion though.
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