Why do new people give up on Linux?

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby MartyMint on Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:52 pm

rxd wrote:Well, if in this day and age Linux users want a command line interface and don't like pointing and clicking fine. And if everyone had to make sure their hardware is going to work with Linux because Linux is finicky with hardware that's fine too.

Just don't ever expect to get beyond Linux's current 2%-3% market share. And that's fine too.


You got it backwards. It's hardware manufacturers not releasing open driver code that's the problem.
The hardware world is slowly moving away from closed source, that's a good thing.


rxd wrote:
...finishing up Mint or Ubuntu or whatever


Operating systems never "finish". They are a constantly moving target. Requirements change. Tastes change. Performance changes.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby InkKnife on Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:14 pm

frank392 wrote:Linux is a Huge wast of time for some one that needs a computer to do some work, there is always something that does not work (printer, scanner, microsd card reader, sound, Mic ) so you have to spend hour tinkering with your computer to make it work and some times with no good results... and once you get your system running it comes the dreadful updates or upgrades that will destroy your system again :twisted:

Or, they could have a completely different experience. My wife and I switched to Mint two years ago. It worked flawlessly with all of our hardware and peripherals. My wife, who is far from being a techie, has commented on how much better Mint is than the Winxp she was running before.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby rxd on Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:02 am

I'm sure this is true. IF all your hardware happens to work and IF you only do the things that happen to work well in Linux I'm sure Linux is wonderful.

But IF you have only slightly different needs you are in for a world of pain....
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby xfrank on Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:39 pm

frank392 wrote:Linux is a Huge wast of time for some one that needs a computer to do some work, there is always something that does not work (printer, scanner, microsd card reader, sound, Mic ) so you have to spend hour tinkering with your computer to make it work and some times with no good results... and once you get your system running it comes the dreadful updates or upgrades that will destroy your system again :twisted:


this is unfair, many people do use successful Linux for their productive work, me included. As for my experience, I have printer, scanner, microsd card reder, sounds, etc. perfectly working. Even better than windows, for example Linux recognized immediately an old hp scanjet scanner, while windows requires a disk with drivers and almost an hour to install them with a lot of bloatware. Scanning software in Linux (simple scan, xsane) is far easier and confortable to use than the proprietary one.
Update and upgrades do not "destroy" the system, if the user (but even a noob) know to do it.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby factotum218 on Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:49 pm

Going from the original post I find more people give Linux a go with the idea that it's not Windows/Apple. They have the OS in mind, not the software that comes with it. People who use MSOffice/InDesign/Illustrator aren't considering the experience they've had with LibreOffice/Scribus/Inkscape. Chances are they have little to no experience with them.

From that I always suggest switching to the alternative software that comes with a linux distro before even considering swapping out their os completely as most software is cross-platform now.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby frank392 on Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:56 pm

@xfrank
The name of this conversation is " why do NEW people give up on linux"
and I'm glad you are one of the lucky one that everything is working in your computer. in my case on one of my computer the microsd is not working, the other one is the touchpad. aI have Amazon prime video that does NOT work under Linux.a friend has problems with his printer.

so if you are new to linux and you really need to work with your computer and do not have the time or the wish to be tinkering with your computer you will run away from linux as fast as you can .
the other thing is software ... in my case I'm A photographer, i like Gimp but is not even close to Photoshop I wish it was i dislike Adobes way of doing business, the other thing is that the software to calibrate your monitor under linux is very bad. and there is no option to calibrate your printer. and please do not tell me that linux is more secure I have been using windows for over 10 years NEVER had a problem with Virus
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby FirebirdTN on Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:39 pm

As a new Mint user, an a VERY novice Linux user, I can actually see both sides of the arguement.

I haven't read all 43 pages of this thread, but just looking back at some of the recent comments, hardware compatibility seems to be a key factor here. Those who have hardware that play nice will generally have a good experience-those that don't, especially newcomers, will find it a nightmare.

In all honesty, there are some things that I think Windows "does better". And I have a couple minor annoyances that I never experienced with Windows. But the truth is, I'm sticking with Linux. I really don't like the direciton Microsoft is headed (or Unbuntu for that matter), as I need a traditional desktop interface for my power computing needs. Although I have some quirks, so far I really am liking Mint.

I just finished an email telling a co-worker my honest opinion of Linux (Mint specifically, but just said "Linux" as not to cause confusion). And here it is, whether you agree or not, its just my opinion:

Linux (Mint) IS ready for prime time to *USE* from a novice PC user's perspective.
Linux (Mint) is NOT ready for prime time to *INSTALL/SETUP* from a novice PC user's perspective.
Linux (Mint) is ready for prime time for *INSTALL/SETUP/USE* from a Power PC user's perspective, albeit with some growing pains.

What I mean by that, is lets face it-Installation is VERY easy. Answer a couple simple questions, click forward a few times, and done. HOWEVER, I tried to set up my printer by clicking "printers" and was greeted with an error. After research, its a bug, and I had to drop to the terminal and type system-config-printer. Okay, so that was really really easy, BUT...from a complete novice standpoint, probably not. Yes, you can easily search for solutions to problems like this, but the point is the vast majority of the time, Windows user's are accustomed to doing so.

Now in defending Linux, I'll bet the novice user would have an equally hard time installing Windows "from scratch", with all the drivers, configuration, settings, etc. In my mind its no harder to install one over the other-just different. The problem is (again from the novice user's perspective), I would say the bulk of users in that category never had to install Windows, or device drivers, etc. They probably bought their computer, and with the exceptionn of maybe some external peripherals, all the setup is already done for them.

And I think there in lies the real problem. There just aren't many (any?) computers as readily available for sale pre-configured with Linux, tested, and ready to go. So it takes a little more work in getting a system set up. With computers pre-configured with Windows, you just go buy it, turn it on, answer some simple questions, and your all set.

Now from a USE standpoint-I find both equally easy. I use applications, not OSes. Coming from a Windows background, I regularly used Firefox as a browser, and Thunderbird as my email client. I see virtually no difference in either under Mint. Yes, the underlying OS is different, but the actual day to day USE remains the same.

So thats my take on things. In short, I do understand both sides of the equasion, but I have just made the switch, and although experiencing a little bit of growing pains, I am satisfied, and am not looking back.

-Alan
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby PKing on Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:23 pm

FirebirdTN wrote:Linux (Mint) IS ready for prime time to *USE* from a novice PC user's perspective.
Linux (Mint) is NOT ready for prime time to *INSTALL/SETUP* from a novice PC user's perspective.
Linux (Mint) is ready for prime time for *INSTALL/SETUP/USE* from a Power PC user's perspective, albeit with some growing pains.
-Alan


I think there are the main reasons, to have or not have Linux on your computer.
I just installed it myself now, and did a Lubuntu instal on a old laptop, and the average user has no clue.....

It is not the fact that Windows is better (althoug W7 is pretty stable) but the fact that it comes pre-installed with the most computers, and it is a easy system for the avarage user.
In Windows everything wat the average user dont want to know is happening in the background, the user only sees the interface.
The average user dont want to do things he dont understand in a command line.
The average user has no clue how his computer works or how many cores his CPU has, because he dont know wat a CPU is :mrgreen:

As i did work with DOS and for instance PCtools, and worked with a mouse with one button and OS8.xx for the mac, i can say i am not the average user, and i still have questions about this system.
So make a Linux distro with no terminal and only a graphic interface and you are getting closer to the average user i think.
And do not talk about gaming because Linux sucks at that :lol:
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby FirebirdTN on Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:06 pm

PKing wrote:...So make a Linux distro with no terminal and only a graphic interface and you are getting closer to the average user i think.


To be honst, that bit that I quoted is my BIGGEST fear. Right now things kind of seem to be headed in the direction of removing access to the "guts" of a system to make it "user proof".

For now, I need the "dumbed down" point and click interface just because its what I am used to. HOWEVER, I do not want to see the operating system evolve to a point where you can't dig into the hardware or tweak the software, etc. Although the terminal makes me nervous, I do NOT want to see it go away...EVER. But it would be nice for most of the terminal commands used to configure a system or interface be available with a GUI equivalent as well. Trying to think of an example, but the only one that comes to mind is my recent expeience with CentOS6. You can do ALOT with the gui, but I could not find ANY gui application for the simple task of configuring a static IP address. Back to the terminal and system-config-network. Or my recent experience with Mint-I tried to install playonlinux, but it hung every time. So back to the terminal sudo apt-get install and voila, it installed no problem. The reason it was getting hung up in the gui I think is because it was waiting for user input, but a dialog box never popped up for the user to provide input to!

I don't have much experience with them, but I kind of relate it to a mac...Why are they so good? It seems to be because they "just work". And why do they "just work"? Because you are so far removed from the hardware and software that you really can't dig into "what makes it tick" like you can with Linux.

I have absolutely NO knowledge of coding. But I take comfort in the fact that if I can learn, I can take most any application in linux and look at the source code and modify it if I want to.

I guess in short, yes I would like to see Linux evolve so that its easy, reliable, and simple to setup and use-BUT I don't want my freedom taken away to modify the system or code if I want to.

I am not technically knowledgable enough to know whether those two are mutually exclusive or not, but I seem to think we can get there and have the best of both worlds.

-Alan
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby PKing on Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:16 pm

A mac is not that good if you look at the value you get for the money, they only have a great marketing machine :mrgreen:
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Previous1 on Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:37 pm

PKing wrote:A mac is not that good if you look at the value you get for the money, they only have a great marketing machine :mrgreen:


In terms of hardware, they're terrible value for money. Things like SSDs are twice as expensive as in the PC world.

But time is money too - if you don't have to spend time solving problems you get great value. If I got payed for solving Linux problems I'd have 5 macs by now. :P

Of course if you do have a problem with your Mac, especially hardware related, your life is in the hands of the nearest Apple Store. No real difference for non-technical users, but hard to swallow for computer enthusiasts.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby patrice4419 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:40 am

What a brilliant line of posting - loved the sudo masturbation bit! Frankly, I am a born-again Mint user and rightly so. Now that XP has virtually bit the dust. The truth is that all OS have drawbacks and also good points, some very good. Mint 16 Mate I now use is by far the 'nicest and easiest' to use. When going over to Linux of any type, you'd better get familiar with a more intrusive and hands-on approach. Talk about GUI by all means but remember that Linux is very terminal based and operates better and faster in that manner.
There is nothing wrong in going through the various forums (I found Ubuntu forums very helpful as well!) when encountering some arcane problem like 'Why doesn't Canon supply Linux drivers?' Trawl around, someone or other will have done one. Or don't buy Canon machines. The problem is, as has already been said, that the user bases of Linux and Windows are so divergent in favour and in numbers that companies like Canon don't bother much with Linux. I found this to be true with Samsung as well but some research later and a bit of fiddling my colour laser runs like a train. Nevertheless, I also found it desirable to keep Windows 7 since a lot of stuff from that will not run with Linux. OK, no problem - Virtual Box in Linux allows a lovely set-up of Windows 7 and possibly easy transfer of some files. Job done. Anyone who wants a system that looks like Windows and smells like Windows, well then buy Windows. Anyone who wants more security,a wider availability of specialist programs (for instance I read on the forums about a Dreamweaver compatible prog - Blue Griffon installed it in 3 seconds and bingo a new web-design prog kit for free) will get to Linux. Happy to say you cannot do something like that in Windows without shelling out some hard-earned moolah.
Finally, it is surely true that a) You cannot please everyone and b) No OS has all the answers and never will have.
Did I mention I am a happy Mint user?
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Canon drivers

Postby pdc_2 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:12 pm

to be honest Patrice, if you check on Canon printers that are being sold today, you are likely to find they have:

Debian packages; RPM packages and source code;

in both 32bit and 64bit packages;

do check out what printers are in your shops: such devices as the MG2100 series; and the MG3100 series: (we have the latter): and check such sites as this for drivers:

http://software.canon-europe.com/

http://support-asia.canon-asia.com/?personal

eg for the latter, entering MG2100 you get this http://support-asia.canon-asia.com/P/se ... g_os=Linux

have a read

ScanGearMP runs the scanner; printer drivers for the printer
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby jmar on Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:48 pm

I've puttered with various dual boot XP & Linux distros for a few years now, and linux on my older laptops. kind of an advanced newbie more or less..

Now that XP is dust am finding a few issues with my Linux desktop installs. my passwords are often # so numlock on is preferred.

1 -Most don't keep the numlock on - even when set on in BIOS -( I am still searching for a fix the ones I've read so far did not work)
PCLOS does keep numlock on tho but browser font display is rough/grainy. so that overrules the numlock issue and why I tried Mint, ZorinOS, Xubuntu,
Mepis-(poor browser fonts also & wifi connect issues on my desktop))

2- Can't get emailed URLs to open in a browser by clicking it in the message.. tried some of the fixes mentioned but still no go..tried some add ons but not reliable.
now I get a pop up asking what application to use but it sends me to flies and I not sure what to click to choose firefox??. or any on my browsers...

3- I liked with XP how even if logged out of your profile with Thunderbird open, on the chooser screen it would display that you have new messages waiting..
I don't know if that is possible at all with a linux distro??

I do get odd disappearing parts of my postings on forums while typing, that is a bit bothersome too...I have chronic RSI so all the extra hand scrolling, mousing & typing adds to my issues. and frustration.. LOL
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Previous1 on Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:12 pm

Numlock;
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Ac ... otup#X.org
Hit-or-miss due to various bugs.

Browser fonts;
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fo ... g_examples
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Ch ... _rendering

URLs;
You could write a case-study on this one. :roll: Depends on the applications as well as the desktop environment.

Don't know on the "new messages waiting", I can't advise on wifi either.

The posting problems are unlikely to be Linux-related, more to the browser or the site itself. Does it happen elsewhere?
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby jmar on Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:30 pm

I usually use Firefox and it did odd disappearing text on a few forums and on FB..

I'm trying Opera now to see if it also does it. so far so good..but only posted here so far..

Then I'll try Qupzilla next..

The font coding stuff is beyond my skill set LOL
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Fuzzy Penquin on Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:37 pm

jmar wrote:I've puttered with various dual boot XP & Linux distros for a few years now, and linux on my older laptops. kind of an advanced newbie more or less..
.......
I do get odd disappearing parts of my postings on forums while typing, that is a bit bothersome too...I have chronic RSI so all the extra hand scrolling, mousing & typing adds to my issues. and frustration.. LOL
.....


Of the things you mentioned, I have had experience with this one. Unfortunately, I don't have a fix, but maybe what I'm about to say might give you/us/somebody an idea of the cause? Perhaps you have similar hardware to mine....?

Both my fiance and I have new home-built computers, mine was built in Jan '13 and his Feb '14. All with brand new current-gen parts. Both use MSI MoBo's (mine is a regular general-purpose board Z77A-G45 Thunderbolt, his is a gaming-specific board based upon mine Z87-G45 Gaming), I have 16GB RAM and he has 4GB and both are running at 1600MHz, I have a 3rd gen Intel Core i7 3770k and his is the 4th gen version of the same chip, (and here's the part I suspect...) we both have Nvidia GTX700-series video cards (mine: MSI GTX770, his: EVGA GTX760, both with 4GB built-in RAM). We have both experienced the dissapearing lines of text when typing emails (we use web-based email, not local like Thunderbird) and when posting in forums. I also have a secondary hard drive with Win7, and Windows also does this. So it doesn't seem to be specific to Linux or Mint, for us. Thus, my uneducated guess is that it's an issue with our graphics cards not playing nice with something. Perhaps the Nvidia drivers for the GTX700-series cards have some kind of bug that is not patched/fixed? I wonder if anyone with a higher or lower series card has experienced this also? In any case, I've found it only mildly annoying to me, and it's easily "fixed" (read: temporary workaround) by highlighting over the area where your text dissapeared, which causes it to display correctly again. I have no idea why. That doesn't fix the problem, but it will bring back what you just typed so that you can re-read your paragraph in it's complete entirety before hitting "Send". Works for both my Mint and Win7 OS's.

I hope this helps somehow. :?:

Edit: I don't believe I have noticed my laptops doing this (I'd have to go check to be sure). They are both ancient little guys from 9 and 12 years ago, and of course use integrated graphics built into their CPU or MoBo (not sure how it was implimented in laptops back then). They both came pre-loaded with Windows (2000 for the oldest, XP for the "newest") and now use SolydX on the "newest" and MacPup on the oldest. So this dissapearing text issue could be something with current desktop Nvidia video cards (some model series, all series?).


[Post edited twice to add more details because I was rushing out the door when I first posted. :shock: ]
Last edited by Fuzzy Penquin on Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby exploder on Thu Apr 24, 2014 4:19 pm

Fuzzy Penquin, I really like the detailed information you gave for the problem and the work around for the dissapearing text issue! I do not have this problem on any of my computers but I sure had to comment about how well you wrote about it. Wish more people had your abilities! Seriously! :)
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Fuzzy Penquin on Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:05 pm

exploder wrote:Fuzzy Penquin, I really like the detailed information you gave for the problem and the work around for the dissapearing text issue! I do not have this problem on any of my computers but I sure had to comment about how well you wrote about it. Wish more people had your abilities! Seriously! :)


LOL, thanks. :) I always try to give as much info as possible when dealing with technical things, even if some of the details are probably not relevant. Sometimes it annoys people when I do that... :lol: And now that I'm back from the errand I had to run, I gotta edit my post to add a couple more (probably irrelevant) details I forgot in my rush to answer before I had to leave. Yeah....believe it or not, that was a rushed post! :lol: :mrgreen:

I love technical details. I'm the kind of person who'd read a technical manual for pleasure, instead of because they had to. LOL. And I could talk computers alllllll day. :mrgreen:
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby vrkalak on Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:21 am

The "average" computer user, then switching to Linux for Windows, thinks this >

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