Why do new people give up on Linux?

[owend]

Thanks, FedoraRefugee: you're quite right, my anti-XP bit was a sloppy comment . At work, there are often a lot of people trying to get onto the system at once to log-in to the system, which is an unfair comparison. However, I have now been fairer and run a trial: it still takes almost three minutes just to get XP running, with wired connection unplugged and wireless switched off, so on the computer in a stand-alone condition; Mint 8 as I said about 45 seconds. To forestall your perceptive analysis, the XP was installed by my employer and may have organisation-specific settings, but I can't see anything strange; the Mint is my own install.

I agree with you that Windows has many good points, and it will suit some people very well, not least because new computers almost always come with Windows (or Mac) OSs preinstalled and generally well-configured to the individual computer, so very suitable to those who haven't the inclination, confidence or skill to try to install and configure Linux. Most Linux distros still take more tweaking to get running smoothly than most Windows-on-a-new-machine, and that is a turn-off for many potential converts. However, I would still argue firmly that a distro like Mint 8, after getting it configured to personal tastes, is superior (which is why we're all here!).

Perhaps we need to show more people that a user-friendly distro like Mint will take very little if any configuring, and the same with basic programs like OO, Firefox, Thunderbird, GoogleEarth, GIMP etc which I suspect are all that many home users ever try to use, certainly some of my friends.

A positive suggestion to make up for a rant: why not attach two readme files to distros, not in the iso obviously, which a Windows (or, indeed, Linux) user could open before trying to run as a Live distro or install it: one with a list of compatible printers, scanners, etc and another with a beginner's guide to installing the distro, getting proprietary drivers, setting screen resolutions etc? It may allay some worries and encourage people to try Linux: Linuxers trying a new distro could check for any new features (eg Grub2) and new converts could print it out from Windows and have it to hand as a reference while installing Linux.

[Mallette]

My hatred of Windows is so complete I try not to talk about it. So I won't. I will go so far as to say I should be greatful to Microsoft in that I began my professional career in computing before the Evil Empire took over. In 1995 we were using a 32bit true preemptive multitasking OS so good we were planning to do the next interation of our interactive training applications to VR with googles, glove, and the whole bit. Then the Empire came and now it is just BARELY capable of doing what we were doing back then. So I make 6 figures plus salary and am considered a "visionary" simply recreating what I did 15 years ago that appears to be "state of the art" to my peers. Go figure...

To the topic at hand, LM is a wonderful accomplishment. It still doesn't match the abilities we had 15 years ago and has WAY too much security a user cannot override. No matter how much dedicated users may protest, it really IS very much like Windows. This is not surprising, as there are few left who can think outside the WIndows metaphor. How a person can come to accept that a GUI for a photo editing program should be nearly identical to a spreadsheet is beyond me. If your car and a Boeing 747 had to use precisely the same dashboard I don't think many would suggest that it was a good thing. However, we've been brainwashed into accepting this nuttiness and it extends, to a great degree, even to the dissidents.

My department pays an LMS provider 140k per year for a crappy non-SCORM compliant system that has won "Best of the Best" 5 years running and takes months to get any small change I request fixed. That is sad. I managed to talk IT into installing a Linux server so I could run Ilias, a certified SCORM compliant open source LMS as a "reference" (sneaky Dave) system. For 140k the Ilias group would program this thing to make brownies if I wanted...and that it just where I am headed with it, though it will take a year or more to gradually sooth our IT groups fears of "but it isn't Windows."

LM is awesome and I think it's time may have come. I certainly wish it were much more "not Windows" and more like the great OS's of the 80's and 90's, but at least it is efficient and offers a nice user experience.

Keep at it. Try not to become a priesthood that jealously gaurds its prerogatives and looks down upon those who don't want to sudo this or that. The ideal OS would be completely transparent to the user. A computer should be about productivity, not OS.

Dave

[DrHu]

Thanks, FedoraRefugee: you're quite right, my anti-XP bit was a sloppy comment :oops: . At work, there are often a lot of people trying to get onto the system at once to log-in to the system, which is an unfair comparison. However, I have now been fairer and run a trial: it still takes almost three minutes just to get XP running, with wired connection unplugged and wireless switched off, so on the computer in a stand-alone condition; ...

First great story, and I think matches most users experiences with Linux, apart from those few caveats

• Need to use a specific windows application
• Need to play PC/windows games
• Inertia
  --can't see any advantage to Linux, yes being aware of Eula, WGA, WPA, anti-virus, anti-spyware, updates and patches

...it still takes almost three minutes just to get XP running..
It is not quite as fair as you think, since if you are on a LAN at work, then the profile of the windows XP login will include attempting to connect to the windows AD (Active Directory, if you are domain based system) or work group if you are peer-to-peer
--an item that most people don't remove from windows is the windows client, since you only require tcp/ip (even with windows) to connect to a network that supports tcp/ip (the Internet and internal networks (LAN, enterprise or small business sized)

But it is also just as true, that it takes much longer to install a windows OS than any Linux distribution
--bootup speed might or might not be the most important reason to select an OS: Ubuntu makes a big deal about it: I suppose it presents the idea that the OS is very efficient, but that would not be the whole case. It depends on the context would always be the best viewpoint to take..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/bl ... ws7-review
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9139907/
--One view, Windows proponent
Ubuntu_9.10_Linux_creator_calls_Windows_7_excellent_release_

• Ubuntu and Linux generally continue to be hamstrung by the operating system's technically forbidding image, its smaller selection of applications and games, device compatibility issues, and the reluctance of PC makers to preinstall Linux, due to its lack of popularity and the desire to keep good relations with Microsoft.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/181446/u ... clock.html
--One view, Linux proponent

Bashing Microsoft is a game we (Linux users) all quite like; after all Microsoft has been doing that to their erstwhile competitors for decades..

[DrHu]

My department pays an LMS provider 140k per year for a crappy non-SCORM compliant system that has won "Best of the Best" 5 years running and takes months to get any small change I request fixed. That is sad. I managed to talk IT into installing a Linux server so I could run Ilias, a certified SCORM compliant open source LMS as a "reference" (sneaky Dave) system. For 140k the Ilias group would program this thing to make brownies if I wanted...and that it just where I am headed with it, though it will take a year or more to gradually sooth our IT groups fears of "but it isn't Windows."

I hadn't seen ilias before, but I do agree that online or e-learning will become more important over time, but unless you are in that business, then a personal/custom system can still do the job
http://www.lynda.com/

I found this comparison: Ilias, Moodle
Moodle, I had seen before..
http://eduforge.org/

http://www.etutors-portal.net/portal-co ... oodle/view

[Mallette]

We are in the drilling business, not the LMS business. I need to distribute and track 100mb or larger simulations that are state of the art (given the 15 year halt in innovation caused by Bill Gates) and well beyond what most are doing. They are not niceties but absolutely critical to ensuring the safety of our employees and maintaining a competitive advantage. Windows slows EVERYTHING down.

Another poster was speaking of criticsizing XP's boot time as being "not entirely fair."

With the massive CPU power and RAM speeds available today your computer should be ready to go by the time your hands get from the power switch to the keyboard...just like my Commodore 64 did 20 years ago.

That thing did 95% of all non-internet computing that most people need and did so for 150.00 inclusive.

I learned AutoCAD on a dual floppy XT with a 9mhz processor. I wait more now than I did then. I am NOT kidding. That is so insane no science fiction writer would touch it...but it is true.

Such justifications are only reasonable if you are completely inside the box and not thinking. I suspect the PC I am sitting at has as much computing power as every mainframe on the planet combined in 1970 and yet it takes forever just to establish a connection with my NAS.

The Mac commercial that launched them as come true in spades, and Bill Gates pronouncment in the 80's that he would "change the way America computes forever" turned out to be a nightmare no one could have foreseen at that time.

Dave

PS- DrHu...thanks for the link to the comparison. I'll study that.

[Mallette]

Here is one reason: SEKURITY!

Why do programmers assume we are all idiots? Why would it be such a stretch to provide a disclaimer that "You are on your own" and be able to disable all passwords and high priest blocks?

I am trying to get my Mint dual boot working and need to delete an unnecessary install partition. I had no problem installing gparted and was impressed the system actually told me the command to install it when it wasn't present. Very nice.

Then, I try to run it and am told I am way too dumb to use such a powerful program and only someone named root can do that. No help whatsover on locating this person, and a search for help on "root user," "root access," and the like turns up nothing useful...other that oblique references.

It is stuff like that which turns users off. Totally unnecessary.

Dave

[eiver]

Well, I must strongly disagree with you.

Why do programmers assume we are all idiots?

This assumption is unfortunately true most of the time. Well maybe not all people are idiots, but for sure most people are not IT experts.

Then, I try to run it and am told I am way too dumb to use such a powerful program and only someone named root can do that. No help whatsover on locating this person, and a search for help on "root user," "root access," and the like turns up nothing useful...other that oblique references.

I didn't quite get you. Are you saying the problem is, that a new user won't know what does the "root" word mean (that it stands for administrative priviliges)? Or do you dislike that a user cannot perform administrative tasks, like deleting all partitions with a single command or a single mouse click?

And finally can you elaborate on the term SECURITY in Linux?

P.S.
I'd rather see things like "linux vs windows war" in another topic. Let's concentrate on the subject here, that is why people give up on Linux (after they tried it, or even before).

[FedoraRefugee]

Here is one reason: SEKURITY!

Why do programmers assume we are all idiots? Why would it be such a stretch to provide a disclaimer that "You are on your own" and be able to disable all passwords and high priest blocks?

I am trying to get my Mint dual boot working and need to delete an unnecessary install partition. I had no problem installing gparted and was impressed the system actually told me the command to install it when it wasn't present. Very nice.

Then, I try to run it and am told I am way too dumb to use such a powerful program and only someone named root can do that. No help whatsover on locating this person, and a search for help on "root user," "root access," and the like turns up nothing useful...other that oblique references.

It is stuff like that which turns users off. Totally unnecessary.

Dave

I disagree too Dave. The root system is easy to figure out, the trick is to not fight it but to learn what you are doing. It is not a slight on anyone, it is a safety precaution that only a person with root permissions can make system changes. It is not hard to su to root or at least sudo for root permissions. You can also open file browsers and other necessary GUI apps with such permissions. The fact is you only use these permissions under 5% of the time and that is being generous. If it were not for this safety measure Linux would be as full of holes as XP.

To other posters, as far as the speed thing goes, XP was plenty fast for me but I took very good care of my install. I also reinstalled every year as the registry became corrupt. Vista was a resource hog but it ran great on adequate machines (anything made after 2005 or so). But...With the new UAC I never had a single piece of adware or anything else install itself! The registry never became corrupted even after 2 years and boot time was good. Windows 7 is much better than Vista. Today I booted from power on to a working desktop in under 30 seconds, and that is on a laptop. I guess people's mileage will always vary, but I have no complaints. I would still admit Linux is the superior OS but the lead is shrinking. I think Windows 7 is coming out ahead in actual use and the only thing keeping Linux slightly on top in my mind if the open nature and the fact that the development model allows things to move at a faster pace with much more input from diverse areas of the community. But just be aware that the last factor I mention is a great hindrance in other people's eyes. There is no unifying guidance, everyone just does as they please on their separate projects. I just happen to like this choice.

[eiver]

I once gave up on Linux, because it could not detect my SATA HDD. It said there were no HDD at all in my computer. I tried first 10 or so distros from distrowatch. All failed. That was some time ago. Now everything works great for me, but I assume there are still people who have issues with their hardware being not supported.

[LinuxRetard]

I need to print something. I just learned that my Lexmark X3350 printer/scanner/fax does not work with Linux and probably never will. I have searched the internet until I am tired of searching. Google has not been my friend like all you Linux users like to tell everybody.

Just because Linux works out of the box for you, and your hardware, does not mean it does for everybody! My integrated graphics, Intel 82845, still has major issues especially with flash. ***Well flash is not our fault!*** I was going to buy a video card but why bother now? My modem will not work with Linux. Okay, how often do I really use it now so who cares. Now I learn my printer/scanner/fax will not work. Can you start to understand why people might give up on Linux? ***Well try a different distro.*** I have tried over a dozen!

***The Linux community is great!*** Really... all I have seen is a bunch of defensive people with some sort of agenda. Disgruntled Microsoft employees are you? It is an operating system. It should make your computer function. The Linux community seems like some sort of weird operating system cult. Instead of telling people how great Linux works for you, maybe you should start listening to the issues others are having. Just think if you listened to others and fixed the problems you might be able to accomplish your dreams of operating system domination. You would be like an operating system Jedi geek! ***Well we have no control over hardware issues.*** Then stop telling everybody how wonderful it is and how if it does not work right for you then you are stupid.

***Well then ask for a refund!*** {Waits for other juvenile rants.} It is this type of attitude that makes people such as myself walk away and be thankful for Microsoft. Maybe people are using free operating systems because they don't have the money or want to spend hundreds on Microsoft products. If they had money to buy new hardware, like your solution, then they would probably buy a new computer that had Microsoft pre-installed.

Sorry for the outburst but I had to let it out. I hope Linux gets much better for new users such as myself. I'm back to dodging viruses!

[Jix]

Been using Mint for 1 week, and I love it in some aspects, and hate it in others. Here's what I don't like.

1) Install files are rarely called something obvious, like Install, or Setup. It's often something cryptic. Since I still don't know what the exe equivalent in Linux is, I tend to rely on the Package thing instead.

2) Applications are sloppily designed. It's the little things that turn users off. I've installed maybe half a dozen mp3 apps, and most annoyingly reopen another application instance when I click on another mp3. I end up with a bunch of songs playing at the same time. Many of said applications don't even include an option to start a new song using the currently running player.

3) More sloppy design. Clicking on X minimizes the application. The only way to shut it off is if you select quit in the panel. (Not giving examples of apps because I've experienced a bunch of them.)

4) I get app through the synaptic package thing, and it doesn't work. Some info on what's missing/incompatible would help.

5) Passwords and admin rights when all I do is use the OS for myself. It's probably been beaten to death, but Linux doesn't seem to be designed for single users in mind. An option during installation should ask if we're a "single user" or an "network admin."

6) KDE isn't very ergonomic. Gnome is much better streamlined.

7) The whole mounting of drives thing. Never liked it in Mac; don't like it in Linux. It should remember the mount once and store it in my user preferences, kinda like wi-fi password/settings that are remembered even after I reboot. And the files that are associated with the "mounted" drive don't work until you access the drive and enter the password. Annoying.

Besides that, it's great. I still can't get used to not having to install a gazillion drivers just to get my laptop working.

[LinuxRetard]

I wonder how many of you Linux users enjoy geocaching and treasure hunting? I bet there is a strong correlation.

[shane]

I wonder how many of you Linux users enjoy geocaching and treasure hunting? I bet there is a strong correlation.

i wouldn't be surprised...

[Jix]

I find many Linux purists quizzical in a funny kind of way. Most of the annoying stuff would be revolves if developers would finally come to terms with the fact that many Linux users aren't network admins. I often hear how new Linux users have to adapt to Linux when it's becoming more obvious with each passing year that it's developers that have a hard time adapting. This will become more apparent as time goes by. Face it, more and more single-users are switching to Linux. I have nothing against learning commands; I grew up in the DOS era. But Linux's core structure is stubbornly built around the whole "server" and "network" principal. There should be a trimmed down "home" version that doesn't make you dance around all the admin security measures. Don't get me wrong. Even after 1 week I've come to realize that Windows is bloatware, and Mint is WAAAY more user-friendly than Windows in many aspects, but still... when I use Linux the OS always screams "why aren't you an Admin?!" at me.

Also, it would be cool if a clean install of Mint would have a link to a commands doc on the desktop. It would speed up the learning process.

[FedoraRefugee]

I need to print something. I just learned that my Lexmark X3350 printer/scanner/fax does not work with Linux and probably never will. I have searched the internet until I am tired of searching. Google has not been my friend like all you Linux users like to tell everybody.

Just because Linux works out of the box for you, and your hardware, does not mean it does for everybody! My integrated graphics, Intel 82845, still has major issues especially with flash. ***Well flash is not our fault!*** I was going to buy a video card but why bother now? My modem will not work with Linux. Okay, how often do I really use it now so who cares. Now I learn my printer/scanner/fax will not work. Can you start to understand why people might give up on Linux? ***Well try a different distro.*** I have tried over a dozen!

***The Linux community is great!*** Really... all I have seen is a bunch of defensive people with some sort of agenda. Disgruntled Microsoft employees are you? It is an operating system. It should make your computer function. The Linux community seems like some sort of weird operating system cult. Instead of telling people how great Linux works for you, maybe you should start listening to the issues others are having. Just think if you listened to others and fixed the problems you might be able to accomplish your dreams of operating system domination. You would be like an operating system Jedi geek! ***Well we have no control over hardware issues.*** Then stop telling everybody how wonderful it is and how if it does not work right for you then you are stupid.

***Well then ask for a refund!*** {Waits for other juvenile rants.} It is this type of attitude that makes people such as myself walk away and be thankful for Microsoft. Maybe people are using free operating systems because they don't have the money or want to spend hundreds on Microsoft products. If they had money to buy new hardware, like your solution, then they would probably buy a new computer that had Microsoft pre-installed.

Sorry for the outburst but I had to let it out. I hope Linux gets much better for new users such as myself. I'm back to dodging viruses!

Others may blast you but you have some great points! A little exaggerated maybe...And some are a bit outdated, but still...I agree.

About the printer: Tough! Yeah, I said it! There are a couple/few (small handful? If that...) of printers that just do not work. Lexmark has been notorious for this. Solution? A $50 HP inkjet from Walmart. You pay that much to replace the Lexmark cartridges so don't make it to be a bigger problem than it really is.

Your next paragraph I cannot speak with any authority. I use nVidia for the most part and never had any problems with flash or graphics. Likewise, I do not miss the old dial up modem days with Linux. It was a PITA. But I have not had any connection problems, even with wireless, for years now. But you are right, just because it works for most does not mean it is perfect or that problems do not exist. Like it or not this is just the nature of Linux. Wither love it or hate it, it is YOUR choice.

The Linux community is made up of....people! Like any other community. Some thin, some fat, some beautiful, others downright ugly. Many are smart, some are too smart for their own good some outright geeks, and many are dumb as dirt. I have always made it a point to tell it like it is about Linux go read some of my posts! I take a lot of heat fighting the evangelists and the world domination crowd. It is silly. But you go the other way. You do recognize that most of your issues ARE hardware related and it seems you recognize that the FOSS people really do have no control over that. This is one of the main reasons why Linux NEVER WILL compete with proprietary operating systems. It is what it is. If you are a Linux user you know what hardware to use. Most of us hate this answer but it is the only choice. When I started out in Linux I had some incompatible hardware. It makes life miserable. I had to replace a printer, flatbed scanner, dial up modem, and eventually my digital camera. After that Linux was awesome for me. No more pain.

Ask for a refund! Did you get that line from me? Probably! It is true! NO ONE IS TWISTING YOUR ARM! No one gains from you using Linux! "Drat, world domination foiled again by linuxretard!" Lol! Just walk away! Put the mouse down and just walk away! The rest of your paragraph makes no sense. If you dumpster dive for your computer then you are going to have issues. Either scrounge what you need or save your pennies. This is life. But do not complain about the free OS. FOSS owes YOU nothing! You owe FOSS! Either use Linux or don't. But don't whine about its shortcomings, you invested nothing in it.

The biggest irony here is computers are as cheap as they have ever been. I remember buying my last desktop in the mid 1990's for almost $2,000. And it was a piece of junk! I am now building relatively competitive desktops for $300 and there are complete off the shelf computer systems, with Windows 7 installed, for just a bit more everywhere. You can get a netbook for the same price, or a decent laptop for well under a grand. What is the problem? No one said life would be free!

Listen, Linux is not fro everyone. There are a few of us that recognize this. The problems you relate have been around for 18 years and will probably continue to be a factor. either join the program or walk away. Windows is a fine OS. You should not have virus or spyware problems with Vista or 7. There is no shame in using what works. As you say, it is just an OS. Not a cult.

[FedoraRefugee]

I find many Linux purists quizzical in a funny kind of way. Most of the annoying stuff would be revolves if developers would finally come to terms with the fact that many Linux users aren't network admins. I often hear how new Linux users have to adapt to Linux when it's becoming more obvious with each passing year that it's developers that have a hard time adapting. This will become more apparent as time goes by. Face it, more and more single-users are switching to Linux. I have nothing against learning commands; I grew up in the DOS era. But Linux's core structure is stubbornly built around the whole "server" and "network" principal. There should be a trimmed down "home" version that doesn't make you dance around all the admin security measures. Don't get me wrong. Even after 1 week I've come to realize that Windows is bloatware, and Mint is WAAAY more user-friendly than Windows in many aspects, but still... when I use Linux the OS always screams "why aren't you an Admin?!" at me.

Also, it would be cool if a clean install of Mint would have a link to a commands doc on the desktop. It would speed up the learning process.

I just went over the root/admin thing a few posts up. I am not going to do it again. If you cannot figure this out then you (and everyone like you) have no business using Linux. You should create your own OS, one which is perfect. And allow everyone access to all your stuff.

You are asking for a brainless OS and that just does not exist. You are also living in a sugar plum fairy world where lollipops dance in suggesting no security. Even Microsoft is now locking out the admin account by default. Learn the root system, you will be much happier.

[LinuxRetard]

I need to print something. I just learned that my Lexmark X3350 printer/scanner/fax does not work with Linux and probably never will. I have searched the internet until I am tired of searching. Google has not been my friend like all you Linux users like to tell everybody.

Just because Linux works out of the box for you, and your hardware, does not mean it does for everybody! My integrated graphics, Intel 82845, still has major issues especially with flash. ***Well flash is not our fault!*** I was going to buy a video card but why bother now? My modem will not work with Linux. Okay, how often do I really use it now so who cares. Now I learn my printer/scanner/fax will not work. Can you start to understand why people might give up on Linux? ***Well try a different distro.*** I have tried over a dozen!

***The Linux community is great!*** Really... all I have seen is a bunch of defensive people with some sort of agenda. Disgruntled Microsoft employees are you? It is an operating system. It should make your computer function. The Linux community seems like some sort of weird operating system cult. Instead of telling people how great Linux works for you, maybe you should start listening to the issues others are having. Just think if you listened to others and fixed the problems you might be able to accomplish your dreams of operating system domination. You would be like an operating system Jedi geek! ***Well we have no control over hardware issues.*** Then stop telling everybody how wonderful it is and how if it does not work right for you then you are stupid.

***Well then ask for a refund!*** {Waits for other juvenile rants.} It is this type of attitude that makes people such as myself walk away and be thankful for Microsoft. Maybe people are using free operating systems because they don't have the money or want to spend hundreds on Microsoft products. If they had money to buy new hardware, like your solution, then they would probably buy a new computer that had Microsoft pre-installed.

Sorry for the outburst but I had to let it out. I hope Linux gets much better for new users such as myself. I'm back to dodging viruses!

Others may blast you but you have some great points! A little exaggerated maybe...And some are a bit outdated, but still...I agree.

About the printer: Tough! Yeah, I said it! There are a couple/few (small handful? If that...) of printers that just do not work. Lexmark has been notorious for this. Solution? A $50 HP inkjet from Walmart. You pay that much to replace the Lexmark cartridges so don't make it to be a bigger problem than it really is.

Your next paragraph I cannot speak with any authority. I use nVidia for the most part and never had any problems with flash or graphics. Likewise, I do not miss the old dial up modem days with Linux. It was a PITA. But I have not had any connection problems, even with wireless, for years now. But you are right, just because it works for most does not mean it is perfect or that problems do not exist. Like it or not this is just the nature of Linux. Wither love it or hate it, it is YOUR choice.

The Linux community is made up of....people! Like any other community. Some thin, some fat, some beautiful, others downright ugly. Many are smart, some are too smart for their own good some outright geeks, and many are dumb as dirt. I have always made it a point to tell it like it is about Linux go read some of my posts! I take a lot of heat fighting the evangelists and the world domination crowd. It is silly. But you go the other way. You do recognize that most of your issues ARE hardware related and it seems you recognize that the FOSS people really do have no control over that. This is one of the main reasons why Linux NEVER WILL compete with proprietary operating systems. It is what it is. If you are a Linux user you know what hardware to use. Most of us hate this answer but it is the only choice. When I started out in Linux I had some incompatible hardware. It makes life miserable. I had to replace a printer, flatbed scanner, dial up modem, and eventually my digital camera. After that Linux was awesome for me. No more pain.

Ask for a refund! Did you get that line from me? Probably! It is true! NO ONE IS TWISTING YOUR ARM! No one gains from you using Linux! "Drat, world domination foiled again by linuxretard!" Lol! Just walk away! Put the mouse down and just walk away! The rest of your paragraph makes no sense. If you dumpster dive for your computer then you are going to have issues. Either scrounge what you need or save your pennies. This is life. But do not complain about the free OS. FOSS owes YOU nothing! You owe FOSS! Either use Linux or don't. But don't whine about its shortcomings, you invested nothing in it.

The biggest irony here is computers are as cheap as they have ever been. I remember buying my last desktop in the mid 1990's for almost $2,000. And it was a piece of junk! I am now building relatively competitive desktops for $300 and there are complete off the shelf computer systems, with Windows 7 installed, for just a bit more everywhere. You can get a netbook for the same price, or a decent laptop for well under a grand. What is the problem? No one said life would be free!

Listen, Linux is not fro everyone. There are a few of us that recognize this. The problems you relate have been around for 18 years and will probably continue to be a factor. either join the program or walk away. Windows is a fine OS. You should not have virus or spyware problems with Vista or 7. There is no shame in using what works. As you say, it is just an OS. Not a cult.

You asked, "Why do new people give up on Linux?" I gave my answer. Does it really need a reply back? Maybe this is the problem and exactly what I am talking about?

In regards to "dumpster diving" for my computer, if I bought the latest and greatest it still would not work. I always love the "Linux is not for everyone" line. When you all are trying to convert people to your movement you should be telling them this, as well as what hardware will work. If the problems have been around for 18 years, I guess I will check back in another 15 or 20 years to see if there has been any progress.

[LinuxRetard]

I find many Linux purists quizzical in a funny kind of way. Most of the annoying stuff would be revolves if developers would finally come to terms with the fact that many Linux users aren't network admins. I often hear how new Linux users have to adapt to Linux when it's becoming more obvious with each passing year that it's developers that have a hard time adapting. This will become more apparent as time goes by. Face it, more and more single-users are switching to Linux. I have nothing against learning commands; I grew up in the DOS era. But Linux's core structure is stubbornly built around the whole "server" and "network" principal. There should be a trimmed down "home" version that doesn't make you dance around all the admin security measures. Don't get me wrong. Even after 1 week I've come to realize that Windows is bloatware, and Mint is WAAAY more user-friendly than Windows in many aspects, but still... when I use Linux the OS always screams "why aren't you an Admin?!" at me.

Also, it would be cool if a clean install of Mint would have a link to a commands doc on the desktop. It would speed up the learning process.

I just went over the root/admin thing a few posts up. I am not going to do it again. If you cannot figure this out then you (and everyone like you) have no business using Linux. You should create your own OS, one which is perfect. And allow everyone access to all your stuff.

You are asking for a brainless OS and that just does not exist. You are also living in a sugar plum fairy world where lollipops dance in suggesting no security. Even Microsoft is now locking out the admin account by default. Learn the root system, you will be much happier.

There's the attitude again! Poor guy gives his answer and gets told he has no business using Linux.

[MALsPa]

Wow. Whatever. People should use whatever works for them. I'm very, very happy that I took the time to learn to use Linux. What other folks decide to do doesn't matter to me. It isn't my job or my mission to "convert" people and to make sure that they like using Linux. It's out there if you want to take advantage of it. I think Linux is best for those who really want to learn what it's all about, who are willing to put in the time and effort. It's true that Linux isn't for everyone, but why does it need to be? If you want it, learn to use it and you'll probably be glad that you did.

[Topless Granny]

The only reason I keep Windows as dual-boot is because of games and Zune Software. However, for the person that just browses the Internet and uses Word, I don't see why Linux could be bad.