Why do new people give up on Linux?

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby PA1FOX on Thu May 01, 2014 7:42 am

vrkalak wrote:The "average" computer user, then switching to Linux for Windows, thinks this >

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Everything you thought, you knew about Computers is (((((([{WRONG}]))))))
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I disagree. With the same approach you have used to learn Windows, OSX, IOS, Android or any other operating system, you can learn to see logic structure in Linux. It still uses CPU, RAM, disk, ethernet etc.

English people learning French should not think that anything they knew about a language is wrong. It's just different.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby InkKnife on Thu May 01, 2014 5:24 pm

vrkalak wrote:The "average" computer user, then switching to Linux for Windows, thinks this >

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Everything you thought, you knew about Computers is (((((([{WRONG}]))))))
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I switched my wife to Mint/Cinnamon after she had been using XP for over 10 years and she had no problem at all dealing with the differences and she is very much not a tech oriented person.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Barbados99 on Mon May 26, 2014 10:05 am

Viking-bg wrote:Hi,

here is my reason for giving up on Linux (my apologies for the cross post, but if I knew about this thread, I would have posted here first).

A month ago I bought a new computer. I thought that this would at last be the time when I could wave Windows goodbye, as I have looked at Linux for a number of years already (at least since Mint 8 ). I downloaded a number of distro's, but came back to Mint Cinnamon as my distro of choice.

Loading the live USB was a breeze. The distro picked up my mobile Internet (3g) in a flash. I installed, and everything was wonderful for a few days.

Then it started. After booting, Mint intermittently saw my Huawei E367 mobile modem. I estimate for every ten bootups the modem would be detected twice. So this was really strange. Then it sees the modem, and then it doesn't. Now it stopped seeing the modem completely.

Okay, time to hit the forum for a solution (and back to my old Windows XP box because it detects the modem EVERY TIME). There I read to apt get for a certain package (usb-modeswitch). Are you serious? I cannot connect to the Internet in the first place from within Mint. That is exactly my problem! How can I fetch a package on the Internet to fix a non-working Internet connection? So, long story short, modem is not working.

Next I connected the printers. HP - no problem. Canon - no printing. Hitting the forum again, I read that Canon is “poorly supported”. So, if you have certain Canon printers, then it is tough luck. So, printer not working...

Next it was time for the scanner. Canon - oops. “poorly supported”. The most frustrating thing is that my Mint's Simplescan's preferences page actually identifies the scanner correctly, but does not scan a page!

So, after four weeks of intensely working with Linux, I am at wits end. At first everything worked lovely, but then it turned sour. (I have limited my problems with Mint to the basics to keep the post short, and will not discuss issues like logging in multiple users without passwords and installation of packages like Latex, etc.)

I do not know what to do next. I HATE Windows 7, REFUSE to install Windows 8 (I have read numerous reviews), and my beautiful Linux Mint 16 desktop works like a charm, except I cannot print, scan or use the Internet (amongst other issues)! The three most basic functions a computer is used for, Linux Mint has hassles with!

I know I am not the only one. This Linux Mint forum is full of stories like mine. What saddens me the most is that I believe that Linux could be the most popular OS in the world if the basics could be sorted out. I do NOT need shiny new eye candy distro releases every six months. I do NOT need a plethora of distro's and desktops to choose from. All I need is a rock solid OS where I can be productive without reading forums to sort out basic issues like printing, scanning, and connecting to the Internet. So, sadly I sit here typing away in front of my Windows XP box knowing that support will end within a few weeks. I REALLY want Linux to work for me, but this masochistic experience has gone on for long enough. To vent my EXTREME frustration I have decided to write this post. The Linux slogan of “putting the fun back into computing” was just the opposite for me. This is NOT fun, and this and other Linux forums can confirm this to be the case for most newbies.

Ranting complete - thanks for reading.


My experience is similar to yours. I desperately WANT to like Linux. I've tried off-and-on for almost 20 years to use it as my computer OS. But I need an OS that doesn't take a lot of care and feeding. I don't want to be a slave to my OS. Windows works. I know that's blasphemy here. But with Windows, I just install it and forget it. If I want a program I download it, fire it up - and I don't have to even THINK about my OS. Stuff just works. I don't want to be a slave to my OS. I don't enjoy having to fix programs that break. With Windows, it just hums away in the background and I can forget it. Man, in Linux, I never have that freedom. Stuff breaks, I'm living in a Google or Forum world trying to read how to fix the latest thing that doesn't work. I hate that. Right now I'm in this forum trying to figure out how to get a program running in Mint. I had it running (kind of) but it needs some gyrations to get it right. I've used this program in Windows and it works flawlessly once you download it and install it. In Linux it's like a kick in the groin to get it working (and the basic spell checker still doesn't work once you DO get it running). Oh, the humanity of it all.

Some times I step back and look over the incredible array of woes on the Linux forums like this one and laugh in a sick way. People trying to get basic stuff to work and in many cases it's about as pleasant as going to the dentist for a root canal. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but I do laugh out loud sometimes when I just step back and have a "reality check" moment. We're desperately trying to get basic programs to work on Linux so we can embrace the OS, but I fear we're pretty much in denial. Linux doesn't work as well as Windows. Period.

I end up going back to Windows every time, hoping I can come back some day when Linux works as simply as Windows, and my computer can simply be a tool to get jobs done, and not a machine that needs so much care and feeding and attention. Anyway, I'm seeing that Mint is much better than some of the other Linux experiences I've had with Linux over the past 20 years or so. So THAT is encouraging. I'm not giving up on Linux. So here I am (again) trying to get a Linux distro to work for my needs. Maybe I'm just a sucker for not giving up though :-)

Brother, I feel your pain :-)
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Nilla Wafer on Mon May 26, 2014 12:22 pm

Barbados99 wrote:
I need an OS that doesn't take a lot of care and feeding. I don't want to be a slave to my OS. Windows works. I know that's blasphemy here. But with Windows, I just install it and forget it.


You don't have to install your printer separately? Windows has all the drivers built in (sound, graphics, etc)? I have a Windows install disk, but I also have to have all the other disks to install separately - drivers, peripherals, stuff like that). It takes hours. Then I have to buy and install antivirus, registry cleaner, office software. All separately installed.

Install and forget? I never could, not with Windows. But with Linux Mint, there were no separate drivers to install (my printer works, sound, graphics, all of it). I already have a full office suite, no need for antivirus, defragmenter, "optimizers," registry cleaners, nothing. It took me 15 minutes - done.

If I want a program I download it, fire it up - and I don't have to even THINK about my OS. Stuff just works. I don't want to be a slave to my OS.


Same here. But I don't do it by browsing to some web site, hoping I can trust it, then downloading some .exe file, scanning it with antivirus software to give me some sense of safety, and then having it add toolbars and icons and God only knows what else when I execute it. Instead I just open my already-there package manager and download any number of 38,000-plus software titles - for free - from trustworthy repositories. They install automatically and bingo. Done in seconds, not minutes or hours. I'm like you: I don't want to be a slave to the OS, I just want to run my applications. So that's what I do.

I don't enjoy having to fix programs that break. With Windows, it just hums away in the background and I can forget it. Man, in Linux, I never have that freedom. Stuff breaks, I'm living in a Google or Forum world trying to read how to fix the latest thing that doesn't work. I hate that. Right now I'm in this forum trying to figure out how to get a program running in Mint. I had it running (kind of) but it needs some gyrations to get it right. I've used this program in Windows and it works flawlessly once you download it and install it.


Windows software doesn't run in Linux. But there are "Linux equivalents" to most common Windows programs. We use Firefox (or Qupzilla, Midori, Opera, Seamonkey, Chromium, and more) in place of Internet Explorer. Thunderbird (or Claws Mail, Evolution, and others) in place of Outlook. LibreOffice instead of Microsoft Office. Evince instead of Adobe Reader. VLC insttead of Windows Media Player. All of these titles are in Mint's repositories, for free. There is even WINE and Play-on-Linux which allows me to use some Windows software on my Mint OS!

Some times I step back and look over the incredible array of woes on the Linux forums like this one and laugh in a sick way. People trying to get basic stuff to work and in many cases it's about as pleasant as going to the dentist for a root canal. I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but I do laugh out loud sometimes when I just step back and have a "reality check" moment. We're desperately trying to get basic programs to work on Linux so we can embrace the OS, but I fear we're pretty much in denial. Linux doesn't work as well as Windows.


You can return Linux Mint for a full refund on the purchase price if you like. I'm not trying to be snarky here, but just think about it. What did you pay for Windows? What do you pay for all the bloatware Windows requires (antivirus, optimizers, defragmentors, registry cleaners, anti-spyware, drivers, peripherals) to make it run and keep it maintained?

There is a learning curve with Linux. It isn't just a free version of Windows that works the same way. You had to learn Windows, maybe a long time ago. The disadvantage that a Windows user has when trying to switch to Linux is the assumption that both OSes work the same way - just point and click as before. We don't get our software from web sites, but from the repositories. We can't find a cool game or educational stuff at Wal-Mart and install it to a computer running Mint. We have .deb instead of .exe. We don't run as root ("Administrator") all the time like you do in Windows. That is one of the big reasons that Linux is so highly virus-resistant! We don't defrag our hard drives regulary - Linux has no registry to clean! It isn't harder, it's just unfamiliar at first.

I came to Linux from Windows too. No one in my family knew anything about Linux. I was told I couldn't do it because Linux is "only for experts." But after a bit of reading and journaling, I had my first Linux up and running on about 30 minutes. I was 11 years old. Three years later my whole family is using Linux and would never go back. My parents had a harder time learning it than I did because they brought alot of assumptions with them from Windows that just don't apply to Linux. Like downloading programs from the web and getting mad when the "run" command doesn't do anything. It just isn't done that way in Linux. But it took several tries before that lesson sunk in, and we all laugh about it now. Goodness, if we ever had to go back to Windows for any reason, we'd probably be as frustrated by our Linux assumptions as you are by your own assumptions learned from using Windows!

But for me, I would never wish to go back to Windows. But if you are unwilling to learn a little about how this OS works, then stick with what is familiar to you. Just keep some savings in the bank to cover all those anyi-virus subscriptions and license fees and stuff.

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Barbados99 on Mon May 26, 2014 1:57 pm

Nilla Wafer wrote:
Barbados99 wrote:
But for me, I would never wish to go back to Windows. But if you are unwilling to learn a little about how this OS works, then stick with what is familiar to you. Just keep some savings in the bank to cover all those anyi-virus subscriptions and license fees and stuff.

nilla


I don't want to go back either, and that's why I'm hoping this experience with Mint is a good one. I'm willing to learn new things, and like I said in the original post, I've worked with Linux for almost 20 years (off and on) now. I've built web and mail servers years ago on Linux systems (I built the computers from scratch too). I'm hoping the LTS aspect of Mint will be a good match for my needs. I'm at an age now where I don't enjoy tinkering with my computer. I just want "simple" now. Download a program and install it with a click and then use it. The searching through forums and Google searches to install (or fix) stuff, has long since lost its appeal to me. I just want stuff to work. Simple is good. I'm hoping that Mint will be that for me.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Nilla Wafer on Mon May 26, 2014 3:57 pm

That's great, Barbados! Definitely go with the LTS release! Also, you'll want to check your hardware against this list! Mint's LTS is built on Ubuntu 12.04, so match your hardware to 12.04 for a quick double-check. This isn't 100% spot on, but it can help you identify trouble spots you might anticipate if your hardware isn't fully compatible.

This isn't Linux' fault... original equipment manufacturers are paid to be "Microsoft-compatible," and while many OEMs work with Linux, many do not. So a double-check is very useful!

Now as Linux distros go, it simply does not get any more "beginner friendly" on the desktop than Linux Mint! But since it may not be fully compatible with your hardware, it's sometimes worth looking around at a few others. A kid at school found PCLinuxOS for her computer - also very beginner friendly - and loves it! It doesn't run well on my computer, but it's great on hers. Mint doesn't run as well on her computer as it does on mine! Different hardware sometimes calls for different distros. The best ones have hardware compatibility pages on their web sites, like the one I referenced above for Ubuntu/Mint, and they can help you avoid some problems.

Please keep in touch and let us know how it goes for you! Even if you end up on a different Linux distro, your friends here would be really happy to hear that you found a Linux that works for you.

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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby /dev/urandom on Sat May 31, 2014 7:22 am

Nilla Wafer wrote:A kid at school found PCLinuxOS for her computer - also very beginner friendly - and loves it!


I'm rather sure that that kid at school would go with some Mac OS X, customized Windows installation or GhostBSD very well too. :)

(I'm never sure if "a beginner loves it" is actually a Pro for the particular project.)
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Conni on Sat May 31, 2014 9:17 am

I followed Linux over the past 15 years. In 2000 I considered Linux as a niche product for programmers. But things have changed dramatically! Nowadays Linux is easy-to-use. For almost everything there are graphical tools. Actually for many Windows XP users it is easier to migrate to Linux Mint than to Windows 8.

There are basically two reasons for the popularity of Windows (the first reason applies to Mac_OS_X too!):

  • Users are buying it pre-installed on their computer. Buying an OS preinstalled is always easier than installing it, no matter how convenient the installer is. And the installers of major distributions are very convenient!
  • If you buy a new device (computer without OS, printer, scanner, mainboard, processor, etc. etc.), then you usually find a Windows Logo on the packaging combined with drivers (installation CD or download link.)
Isn't that convenience worth the price? I don't think so. There are substantial long-term drawbacks:

  • Security:You have to constantly keep your antivirus software up-to-date, and this software sometimes slows the computer down.
  • End of support (EOS): There are millions of users with quite old computers, which nevertheless are fully sufficient to fulfill their needs. After the EOS of Windows XP many of them are buying new computers, for instance because there is no Windows version, which can be run with 512 MB RAM. And even if their hardware is sufficient to run Windows 8 (or 7), buying Windows and installing it - which can also be tough! - is often not enough. Their beloved software from Windows XP often cannot be used anymore, at least not on the spot.
  • Additional costs: There is of course also freeware for Windows, but it is less secure. In the Linux World most software comes together with the source code. In the Windows world often you get only an .exe file, which can be malware. Therefore many people are buying commercial software.
  • Slavery: As long as you are not able to install an OS on your computer, you are a slave to the installed OS. Some people like slavery, but I don't :D .

Nilla Wafer wrote:Also, you'll want to check your hardware against this list! Mint's LTS is built on Ubuntu 12.04, so match your hardware to 12.04 for a quick double-check.

Generally before buying new hardware, let's say a computer named SuperPC 42-2014 :wink: you should take a look in Google, for instance search for:
  • SuperPC 42-2014 Linux
  • SuperPC 42-2014 Debian
  • SuperPC 42-2014 Mint
  • SuperPC 42-2014 Arch
  • SuperPC 42-2014 Ubuntu
That reduces the risk of suffering a surprise. If you are using Linux, flexibility can ease your life: Two months ago I bought a laptop. The laptop indeed has the status "pre-install Ubuntu 12.04". I wanted to install my pet OS LMDE, but before buying it I've read about serious problems. I found only one successful report in a Debian forum. There was no interesting competing product in my targeted price range, therefore I took the risk. I failed booting several systems (LMDE 201403, Mint 16, Ubuntu 12.04). I improvised and gave the beta version of Lubuntu 14.04 a try. It worked. It is simply a relatively new hardware, which needs a cutting-edge kernel in order to boot out of the box. Two months later I have the luxury problem of choosing between several great distros :D .
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby whichonespink? on Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:52 am

i find it hard using linux mint 16, which i've been using for around 4-5 weeks now. its the first time having linux.

i do like it!
BUT
i am not computer savvy at all, and i believe linux must be easier for a newbie if they are more technically minded about computers, software,etc.
things like gnome, kernal, and others, may as well be double dutch to me. i've tried reading up on some of these words but my mind goes blank!
i'm never going to be interested in how things work regarding computers, i just don't have that interest.
programming, software, just doesn't register. i want to know all this but if a person doesn't have a genuine interest then its difficult forcing it.

at first i forgot about the software manager and all the great things there that can be installed, but now i look there first of course.
however i have downloaded a few things from the web and i'm yet to be able to install the things!
i get as far as extracting, but thats it. to me it seems incredibly hard and not straight forward to install these things.

the terminal looks daunting! i don't understand how people know what to type into it?
all that looks like you need to be very computer literate.
is there somewhere that shows all the various commands so people know what to type?
i keep seeing 'sudo' and i don't know what that is?

to me it seems that to complete some things the developers purposefully made sure that instead of doing one thing to do something, you have to end up doing multiple things for the same outcome. take the long route, so to speak.
i probably haven't explained it well enough?
actually i'm sure people didn't really do this on purpose, but that is what it seems like sometimes.
i know its not windows of course. but if someone is used to doing the same thing by clicking once on something, it does make linux seem difficult.

i'd love to be able to go somewhere that shows everything i've installed, but i can't find it anywhere.

i'd like to be able to REALLY uninstall something and not see it keep turning up over and over again. such as vuze for instance.

i'd like to be able to get rid of the grey colour that is so prevalent. my browser is grey but wasn't with windows.
the folders are all grey. software when opened is grey.
grey is a boring, cold colour imo.
i've download some themes but can't get to that final stage where i can apply them. it would be great to change things with just one click.
i know there are some themes available but they don't really change things very much, they are not very noticable and they don't change the colour scheme.
people make jokes about this and think its not important. well, it is to me!

in menu, the folder on the left hand side takes me to one that is full of stuff i haven't a clue about.
i know its just me but i like tidying up files and although i've moved these particular ones they just keep coming back.
so i'd love it if clicking in that file icon in the menu took me to a folder that contains all my music, pictures,photos, etc. like my documents in windows.

i created the cd for mint 17 the other day and by 'pure chance' it loaded on my pc. however none of my bookmarks and stuff was carried on to this up to date version of mint.
plus it started crashing after a while. so i chickened out and went back to 16!
what has happened a couple of times is that once its all booted up, the mint 16 i use appears to be 'new' and unused.
the welcome screen is there when it shouldn't be.
all my desktop icons are moved into different parts of the screen.
its like mint thinks this is the very first time i've seen mint on my screen and so i have to be taken thru' everything once again.

but i do like mint 16! it seems more relaxed in some ways if that makes any sense? even with all the problems i'm having.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Barbados99 on Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:14 am

Nilla Wafer wrote:That's great, Barbados! Definitely go with the LTS release! Also, you'll want to check your hardware against this list! Mint's LTS is built on Ubuntu 12.04, so match your hardware to 12.04 for a quick double-check. This isn't 100% spot on, but it can help you identify trouble spots you might anticipate if your hardware isn't fully compatible.

This isn't Linux' fault... original equipment manufacturers are paid to be "Microsoft-compatible," and while many OEMs work with Linux, many do not. So a double-check is very useful!

Now as Linux distros go, it simply does not get any more "beginner friendly" on the desktop than Linux Mint! But since it may not be fully compatible with your hardware, it's sometimes worth looking around at a few others. A kid at school found PCLinuxOS for her computer - also very beginner friendly - and loves it! It doesn't run well on my computer, but it's great on hers. Mint doesn't run as well on her computer as it does on mine! Different hardware sometimes calls for different distros. The best ones have hardware compatibility pages on their web sites, like the one I referenced above for Ubuntu/Mint, and they can help you avoid some problems.

Please keep in touch and let us know how it goes for you! Even if you end up on a different Linux distro, your friends here would be really happy to hear that you found a Linux that works for you.

nilla


I almost gave up on Linux, but now I'm glad I didn't. After some pain and frustration initially, I am now 100% thrilled with Mint 17. It took me about two weeks of struggling to get everything working the way I wanted. In particular I had one Windows program i felt I needed in the Linux world in order to completely cut my ties to Windows. Finally, as of late last night, after two difficult weeks, I figured out how to get this program to run on Mint 17. It's a program for writers, authors called "Scrivener" and they now have a free software beta release that they provide for Linux users - if you can get it running on your particular distro. I had a rough time initially getting it to run on Mint 17, but finally had success. If anyone here needs help with this particular program on Mint, there is a user forum dedicated to helping Linux users get it running - here's the link:

https://www.literatureandlatte.com/foru ... m.php?f=33

And here's the post I just left them, thanking them for helping me get this software running on Mint 17:

This morning when I got up to do my morning work on my manuscript, I was able to use Scrivener again. This was the only program I truly needed to work, to be free of Windows. Now I have it working and I can't thank you enough.

Ha. I just finished my morning manuscript work with my beloved Scrivener......I'm vacationing on a small Caribbean island (Barbados) sitting on my porch overlooking the ocean....sipping my morning coffee, enjoying the ocean breeze. Life is good again :-)
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby Caldor on Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:17 pm

Here's another new Linux user that likely will give up on Linux soon. Like others before have said: I want my computer to work, I don't want to spend my day fixing broken things, reading tech forums and downloading (or apt-getting) obscure things that have no documentation or homepage a non-techie can read and understand. I want to like Linux, and I don't want to give Microsoft or Apple even more money as they already have. But that's likely what I will do soon.

Over the years I tried and tried - and probably installed various Linux distributions on perhaps 10 different hardware configurations, all of them running Windows XP with no problems. Result: not a single of these systems ran Linux without something going amiss. Since half a year or so I was running Linux Mint 16 with Cinnamon desktop and only the sound didn't work. I even considered that a good result: only one thing broken. By the way, that sound issue is also a good indication for what's going wrong with Linux. Here's the relevant thread: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... bug/217789 . Bug first reported on 15. April 2008. It's now more than 6 years later - bug still exists, status: Triaged - Incomplete.

And I fear that's something that's characteristic for Linux. Gazillions of distributions get made, hundreds of windows managers and the like. And bugs exist for years.

And a few days ago I downloaded Linux Mint 17, burned it onto a DVD, did a backup for my documents, wiped my harddisk, installed Mint 17. Result: Cinnamon freezes when scaling fonts, uses too much memory and eats my frame rate alive when I'm playing Wurm Online.

It's a sad state of affairs ...
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby monkeyboy on Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:59 pm

Caldor wrote:Here's another new Linux user that likely will give up on Linux soon.


I hear that, BSD might be something you may want to check as an alternative. Enjoy
If you don't like it, make something better
If you can't make something better, adapt
If you can't do either ball your panties up and cry.

Complaining is like masticating most anyone can do it.
However doing it in public is really hardcore.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby /dev/urandom on Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:38 am

Depends on the technical background. PC-BSD as the "BSD for beginners" probably suffers from similar issues. Still, when it comes to upstream bugs (given that "upstream" still means "maintained by the *BSD devs" here), OpenBSD is the only BSD that's known (to me) for regularly fixing even bugs made by other people, but then again, OpenBSD is not something you should set up without thoroughly having read the manual.

While I'd join you in recommending BSD as "something that's not payware", I'm not sure if Caldor would be happy with it.
(He might want to try FreeBSD first.)
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby enxio27 on Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:56 pm

I gave up on Red Hat a number of years ago, for several reasons. First of all, although I didn't have a "bad" experience, there was too much software I needed to run that had no Linux equivalents. (Although it's not as much of an issue now, I will probably deal with that for the forseeable future, but it is what it is--that's why I have dual-boot.) Secondly, installing or configuring anything was such a pain. Although I'm perfectly comfortable with a command line or terminal (when I know what to put into it), and very willing to use it when need be, I simply don't have the time to be doing it all the time, as I was with Red Hat. Thirdly, hardware support was also an issue. My experiences with Linux Mint (two days in) have been very different so far, and I'm pleased. I don't anticipate giving up again.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby var on Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:22 am

Caldor wrote:Here's another new Linux user that likely will give up on Linux soon. Like others before have said: I want my computer to work, I don't want to spend my day fixing broken things, reading tech forums and downloading (or apt-getting) obscure things that have no documentation or homepage a non-techie can read and understand. I want to like Linux, and I don't want to give Microsoft or Apple even more money as they already have. But that's likely what I will do soon.

Over the years I tried and tried - and probably installed various Linux distributions on perhaps 10 different hardware configurations, all of them running Windows XP with no problems. Result: not a single of these systems ran Linux without something going amiss. Since half a year or so I was running Linux Mint 16 with Cinnamon desktop and only the sound didn't work. I even considered that a good result: only one thing broken. By the way, that sound issue is also a good indication for what's going wrong with Linux. Here's the relevant thread: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... bug/217789 . Bug first reported on 15. April 2008. It's now more than 6 years later - bug still exists, status: Triaged - Incomplete.

And I fear that's something that's characteristic for Linux. Gazillions of distributions get made, hundreds of windows managers and the like. And bugs exist for years.

And a few days ago I downloaded Linux Mint 17, burned it onto a DVD, did a backup for my documents, wiped my harddisk, installed Mint 17. Result: Cinnamon freezes when scaling fonts, uses too much memory and eats my frame rate alive when I'm playing Wurm Online.

It's a sad state of affairs ...


It's a sad state of affairs, for some users and their expectations of matching an OS developed by multi-billion dollar corporations who pay manufacturers to support their hardware versus a free OS supported by normal people.

You could ask for a refund :mrgreen: or use MATE instead of Cinnamon for your hardware, it will perform faster. What sound do you have? Most computers (laptops, netbooks and some towers) have some form of HD Audio that usually is detected and works out of the box or simply needs to be selected to work in the Control Center.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby noelbeth55 on Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:28 am

My story, i used ms for 20 years and after all that time you just get used to it. I tried Linux 3 times, 2008, 2011, 2012 now 2014. The biggest frightener with me on the first 3 ocassions was the terminal. I found it offputting. So 2 weeks ago i tried mint 17 cinnamon. Firstly my 2 printers connected themselves and i thought this is good. I was so enthralled in that that when it came time for me to use the terminal i just did it. No problems. So i am now over it, i have binned my 8.1 never to be used again. I would ask anyone trying linux not to give up, it is easier than windows and you are doing your bit for yourself. Now thats a good feeling.
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby patrice4419 on Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:56 am

Yes, I also started Linux a few times - until Mint came along. Ubuntu was a definite turn-off. Ran Mint for a while in dual boot mode and then found out rather quickly I didn't really need Windows at all. Except for one program (a Dutch language ancestor prog) so someone told me about Wine. Now? Ditched Windows altogether.
The point of it all is this - Linux is not Windows and you should not expect it to be. However, have some patience, Rome was not built in a day either. You don't need the Terminal, not in the first instance but it is a very useful tool and certainly worthy of getting to grips with. You will I am sure at a later stage. Setting up your own firewall is easier with the Terminal and not difficult. There is so much help on the forums as well.
Never be afraid to learn something new. For all those of us who are paranoid about security and privacy, have a serious look at Linux. Even the Russki government seems to be going all Linux eyed. Is that saying something?
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Is Linux a constant battle for everyone or just me?

Postby YoelT on Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:56 pm

I'm not ready to give up, but I am starting to find Linux frustrating still after 2 years in. It took me months to get my fresh install, on a computer I hand built to work the way I wanted. Being a Windows user for nearly two decades, you have to really relearn everything for every task.

How do I get multi-monitors to work? Months of research and tweaking, during which time, I wasn't actually using my computer for anything productive.
What software do I use to backup the way I want? More research and testing different software.
How do I sync the photos on my phone to my computer? More testing, and then you find an option (UbuntuOne) and then that service is discontinued and now I have do more work to find another solution.

It took me months just to get LM satisfactorily working for basic functionality like e-mail, internet, word processing, and syncing my cloud data. But I'm a photographer and primarily want to use the computer to be productive in this area. Processing photos, managing large files, and managing a website should be pretty simple right? Two years of Linux, and I have essentially spent most of my time that I would like to be using to be productive just wrestling with the computer.

My "workflow" goes something like this, for just about every new task that I want to do in linux:


    Turn on the computer to accomplish tasks ABC. Find the existing software I have won't do that.
    Go online to research new software for that.
    Find something that should work, attempt to install the software.
    Run into problem XYZ installing.
    Research problem XYZ.
    Test solutions that don't work.
    Find a working solution.
    Find there is another problem with QRS preventing me from using this solution.
    Research this new problem.
    Find a workaround on QRS.
    Fix the original problem XYZ .
    Successfully install the software.
    Attempt task ABC, but find that it is not how I expect.
    Research how to do ABC with the software.
    Discover a new problem EFG.
    Research problem EFG.
    Test solutions.
    Find a working solution, but realize there is another problem in HIJ.
    Research problem HIJ.
    Find a working solution.
    Fix EFG and HIJ.
    Attempt ABC again until success.
    Finally able to do ABC, works for a while.

Meanwhile, this takes days, weeks or months during which I am not getting anything productive done. :x

And thats not all! later I try to do ABC, but discover it's now broken.
Something was broken with an update, and now I have to run through XYZ, EFG HIJ and QRS all again to figure out what was broken and how to fix it.

Is my experience significantly different than anyone elses? Is this just how it is?
Should I switch to Debian? Are there less problems like this? I just want things to work.


I essentially spent the entire supported life of LM15 just trying to get it to work, and now I am no longer getting updates and have to start over with LM17??
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Re: Why do new people give up on Linux?

Postby noelbeth55 on Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:05 am

I do not understand why anyone has a problem with Linux. I think it is simply a matter of you either have it or you do not. I am a moderate pc user and linux has more than lived up to my expectations, sure you may have intermittent problems but sit with it and work it out. It really is straight forward. And if all else fails ask yourself how much did you pay for it. I rest my case.
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Re: Is Linux a constant battle for everyone or just me?

Postby niowluka on Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:52 am

YoelT wrote:Being a Windows user for nearly two decades, you have to really relearn everything for every task.

Yes, and pretty much all your issues are a result of that. I think that's the biggest reason people decide not to stick with Linux, is that it's too different and there is too much to learn and not everybody has time / will / patience / predisposition / etc to do that. I've been using Linux for 10 years and I still learn new stuff.

YoelT wrote:I just want things to work.

Then you will have to find another OS, Linux doesn't work like that.

Linux is not the only OS out there and everyone is free to make their choices.
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