OpenSuse

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OpenSuse

Postby SEGMAT on Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:21 pm

I know that posting on a Mint forum will get answers in favor of Mint but I'm looking for reasons. What is the difference between them. I see reviewers of Linux often say that their distro of choice is OpenSuse and I'm curious. I'm thinking of downloading it and booting to the LiveCD to check it out and try to dual boot or something if it's good. What's it like and what's the differences between Mint and Suse?

Thanks in advance,

Matt
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Re: OpenSuse

Postby scorp123 on Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:12 am

SEGMAT wrote:What is the difference between them?

Developers:
OpenSUSE: developed by a multi-million dollar company: Novell Inc.

Mint: developed by a single French guy in Ireland plus a few volunteers (who do the "community editions")

Packages + Package Managers:
OpenSUSE: uses the Red Hat Package Manager format, *.rpm packages. The package manager is slow like hell compared to "apt" from Debian-based distros.

Mint: uses the Advanced Package Tool, apt plus Debian's *.deb packages. "apt" feels super-fast when compared to any of the other package managers.

Updating and Upgrading:
OpenSUSE: you're not supposed to upgrade packages. If SUSE ships with e.g. Firefox 1.5x you're supposed to stay on this version. Any security relevant patches will be backported to your version and will be made available via SUSE's online update tools. But you won't have any new features. So if you really insist on getting new features and new versions then you will have to go package-hunting and will have to manually download the relevant *.rpm package and all its dependencies. Or you go through the pains of finding a suitable third-party package manager such as smart that would then behave like "apt" on Debian and then download and install all the new software versions and their dependencies for you. Or you Google around and try to find a suitable "Yast repo" for SUSE's official package manager and central config tool "yast" and then install the new stuff you want that way. In any case you'd lose official support for the reason I already said: On SUSE you're not supposed to upgrade to new software versions unless Novell makes it available via their official repos (and usually they only provide security fixes but not new versions with new features). *This* policy is precisely why OpenSUSE and the "SUSE Linux Enterprise Server" (their professional product for large enterprise customers) why this appeals to business users. Business users don't like to mess around with "bleeding edge" and untested new software, they want stability.

Mint: Like all distros based on Ubuntu and Debian new stuff becomes available all the time. e.g. when new versions of Firefox are released the package will be usually available within a day or so in the repos and you can "apt-get install" or "apt-get upgrade" it from there. Or you fire up "Synaptic" and tell it to auto-grab all available upgrades. Ubuntu-like distros already ship with a nicely pre-configured list of online repos (/etc/apt/sources.list) so there is rarely ever a need to go hunting for single *.deb packages (unless you are searching for something really obscure stuff that was deemed as being not suitable for any of the official repos). And then there are tons of third-party repos that are easy to add (e.g. Treviños repos, as described here http://www.linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3433 ) and offer tons and tons of more packages than SUSE could ever dream to have.

For comparison: A fully configured OpenSUSE 10.2 with all the third-party repos and unsupported package managers enabled gives me a count of about 18'000 available packages. And it was a pain in the a** to get it so far, I needed to hunt around in forums and find the right repos and I needed to correct a few entries by hand.

Ubuntu-based distros will give you a list of 24'000 packages and more almost "out of the box" (universe and multiverse enabled). Enabling this stuff is just a matter of entering a few lines via copy & paste into /etc/apt/sources.list. With some repos you might need to download a crypto-key. Again: you do this via copy & paste. Very easy, every beginner can do it. With third-party repos activated this list grows even more. And then there is clem's newest addition: MintInstall and the Software Portal. Point and click, and the software and all stuff you need gets auto-installed, you never even have to mess with getting the right repos.

So why would you want to use OpenSUSE:
- it's widely used in businesses, especially it's bigger cousin "SUSE Linux Enterprise Server"; SLES is based on OpenSUSE and the two are extremely similar.
- nice central configuration tool: yast
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yast
- excellent hardware detection
- superb installer, allows you to fine-tune your installation (e.g. install KDE or GNOME or both or ...)
- you can tell it's done by a professional team, e.g. there is a lot of polish everywhere

Why would you not want to use OpenSUSE:
- the pact between Novell and Microsoft is seen as being "immoral" by some
- package selection is limited
- Novell enforces their chief developer's Greg Kroah-Hartmann's philosophy: He firmly believes that "closed source binary drivers are evil + illegal"; so there is no easy way to get ATI and Nvidia cards working; also Atheros-based WiFi cards are a pain to setup
- for the reasons stated above: No MP3 playback support out of the box, no support for playing encrypted DVD's, no support for many commonly used media formats

==> on Ubuntu you have several options to easily get all these things immediately after the installation; Mint already ships with most of these things and there is almost nothing to do after the installation, whereas getting OpenSUSE to the point where it might finally be usable by a home desktop user is a royal pain in the a** and involves wasting many many hours getting things to work that "ought to be already there" (from the user's perspective; ignoring legal aspects here) ... or at least easier to get.

Would you like OpenSUSE? Maybe. I used it since 1996 ... but it evolved into a direction I began to dislike. And OpenSUSE 10.2 was the last release I used. Ever. As you can tell I am not a SUSE user anymore for all the many reasons listed here :wink:
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Postby clem on Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:35 am

OpenSUSE is definitely worth the try. It's not one of my favorites but it has good aspects and it is one of the major distros out there.

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Postby SEGMAT on Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:39 am

WOW! I really appreciate the time that you spent typing that all out for me. That's probably the biggest post I've seen other than the ones with error logs attached! Thanks for writing that all out, that post has made me leave Suse alone. It's Mint for me!

Thanks again for the post,

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Postby clem on Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:00 am

OK, just to show off and to show that I can actually write more than Scorp123 (for once, lol :lol: :lol: ) here is my review of SUSE 10.2:

http://www.linuxforums.org/reviews/suse ... eview.html

8)
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Postby kenetics on Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:40 am

For me, Yast was confusing and I had problems with the installer.
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Postby Adler on Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:59 am

Guys,

I left SuSE, and have about 3-4,000 posts in Forums there.

The Forums are pretty much dead there, and I did buy SLED.

I prefer .deb to .rpm, which often lead me into dependancy h*ll.

A debian based OS is the better way to go, IMHO.

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Postby scorp123 on Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:18 pm

Adler wrote: I prefer .deb to .rpm, which often lead me into dependancy h*ll. A debian based OS is the better way to go, IMHO.
Absolutely. 8)
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Postby Adler on Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:21 pm

scorp123,

There were several great Distros of SuSE, but then Novell took over. I don't think the group remaining @ OpenSuSE has the drive they once had.

I noticed this, went to UBUNTU, which really doesn't have a user friendly Forum any more, and jumped to Linux Mint.

This may seem to be a short explanation, but I've suffered through a bunch of things, and find a great deal of comfort over here.

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Postby scorp123 on Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:43 pm

Adler wrote: There were several great Distros of SuSE, but then Novell took over.
I used SuSE since 1996!! Until the 10.x series came out .... 10.0 was already bad enough, but 10.1 was utterly broken and should never have been released. But they added insult to injury by releasing 10.2 again with that slow and buggy as hell "zmd" thing -- they should have taken a hint when people complained about it when 10.1 was out .... did they listen? Nope. SuSE? No thanks! 10.2 isn't that bad ... but bad enough. Getting things to work such as Atheros WiFi cards, Nvidia graphics drivers, codecs, add-on repos, extra software, etc. is such a royal pain .... the time it takes to fix all those things is such a waste. As I said: No thanks. :roll:
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Postby Adler on Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:01 pm

scorp123,

I crashed and burned since 9.1 / 9.2, I guess that SuSE was looking for a buyer then found Novell.

Übrigens, ich hatte einmal in der Schweiz gelebt -- außerhalb Basel in Muttenz. Auch für eine lange Zeit in Deutschland deshalb mein Avatar -- the Eagle.

I hope that the original poster has gotten the message. LOL!

Adler

Ooops, I forgot to spellcheck there.
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Postby kcirick on Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:15 pm

Apparantly (according to some sources at distrowatch), OpenSuSE 10.3 is going to be groundbreaking as far as buginess goes (i.e. considerably less buggy than 10.0 or 10.2). I used 10.2, and I didn't find it all that bad.

One bad thing about OpenSuSE is that it tends to install by default a lot of junk, and it's really hard to see what is needed or what is not needed. I just wanted to install Gnome and a few compilers and I went through their installation procedures, I ended up with 50% of my hd full (I don't have a very big hd) as opposed to 22% with Mint installation. Perhaps due to that, I found openSuse VERY slow to boot and also to run. Apparantly 10.2 is infamous for slow boot up.

Mint is very good with out-of-box compatibility with everything, from multi-media to productivity and programming. I didn't really find that in opensuse. you really need to thoroughly pick and choose in Yast, which is not as intuitive as Synaptic in Mint.Another positive thing about Mint, and any other *buntu derivatives is their strong and large community. If you search for any linux problems in google, Ubuntu community forum is probably the very first thing that comes up.

I prefer Mint over Opensuse, for both users who know linux inside out, and those who just migrated from Windows and new to the whole "console" thing.
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Postby Adler on Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:38 pm

kcirick,

Well, if you want to run your own Desktop, write across your Network, Linux Mint is for you.

I ran SUSE since since 9.0 through SLED, and have thousands of posts in the SuSE Forums.

There is a major difference between .rpm and .deb.

I much prefer going .deb.

Plus I get to see all those cool vids that I want to see.

Novell screwed everything up regarding Linux, and opensource.

Show me a Beryl, or compix-Fusion Nesktop, and I always get the Novell Notes.

SuSE has lost it.

I Run Mint
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Postby linuxviolin on Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:06 pm

I find you a little severe about openSUSE. It is a good distro, a stable and solid distro.

To quote a Web site:
lots of binary packages already available;

many bugs present in 10.1 have been fixed since then;

very few out-of-the-box bugs;

suspend-to-disk works with my hardware!

extreme ease of adding supplementary repository, as there are centralized, straightforward instructions for all of the popular ones!

— http://en.opensuse.org/Package_Repositories

—http://en.opensuse.org/Additional_YaST_Package_Repositories

backports (e.g. KDevelop 3.4.1 without the need to upgrade from KDE 3.5.5 to KDE 3.5.7);

"bleeding-edge" such as the "unstable" GIMP 2.3.x;

an easy path to test KDE4;

no, YaST2 is not slower than Pirut or YumEx, and you can use yum or even Smart!

a nice openSUSE Software Search web interface;

good official documentation (HTML and PDF).

And openSUSE 10.2 is supported until the fall of 2008. :D

The dependency h*ll? hum... There is also a deb h*ll :wink: I had not problems with rpm and some major and enterprise distros use rpm without problems... RHEL and its clones CentOS or Scientific for example... and they are very good distros. :) So it's a myth? :roll:

Don't misundertsand me, I don't say that openSUSE is a marvellous distro. :lol: but really you are too severe with it.

scorp123 wrote:Business users don't like to mess around with "bleeding edge" and untested new software, they want stability.

Yes. Sometimes when in front of bugs with ""bleeding edge" and untested new software", one thinks that stability is a great quality! :lol:
And enterprise distros are supported for long time, it is a great thing! 8)
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)
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Postby Adler on Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:49 pm

linuxviolin,

I am just trying to let you know my experiences here. I still get all the newsletters from Novell, and did buy SLED.

I don't see the community behind openSuSE that I've found with .deb.

SuSE is a German acronym for System und Software Entwicklung. Novell has been trying their best to try things Linux for a long time. I've thousands of posts in the Forum(s) there, but for me SuSE has not been that useful.

I grew up with SuSE, but have decided to move on.

Now, back to War with my MAC friends...
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Postby linuxviolin on Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:09 pm

Adler, I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. :) I found that there were many criticisms about this distrib (but maybe I'm wrong), so I wanted to try to bring a little balance with some more positive things :D

P.S= I don't use SUSE either.
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
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Postby Adler on Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:20 pm

linuxviolin,

No problem here.

I just thought that I would add my comments about SuSE.

Thanks for your reply.
Adler

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