Drawbacks of a Rolling Release?

Chat about Linux in general

Re: Drawbacks of a Rolling Release?

Postby linuxviolin on Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:15 am

GoustiFruit wrote:If any update was to break anything (still has to happen), then the next update would fix it. Point barre.

Well, I'm sorry, but not always. e.g. I remember, when I used Debian Testing yet, an update broke Metacity and we had to wait for almost 10 to 15 days before to have the "good" update which repaired it.. :roll:

GoustiFruit wrote:A rolling distro is a distribution that is corrected and improved day after day. It matures and perfects slowly.

"Corrected" maybe but I would not say it really "improves" but rather it is in perpetual changing with perpetual bugs, patches, bugs... never really "mature".

GoustiFruit wrote:Other distributions push a big update (=install), full of bugs, people complain and after a few months things start to get patched and working again. Just in time for the next big update (=install).

Well, yes, some/many ("stupid/bad") distros are like that, unfortunately...

Disrupting upgrades are such a PITA that many managers prefer to ignore the problem altogether and just do nothing. :(
Last edited by linuxviolin on Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)
User avatar
linuxviolin
Level 8
Level 8
 
Posts: 2055
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:55 pm
Location: France

Linux Mint is funded by ads and donations.
 

Re: Drawbacks of a Rolling Release?

Postby alpha1 on Thu Sep 02, 2010 3:57 am

GoustiFruit wrote:
Robin wrote:I toyed with PCLinuxOS for a bit because I liked the idea of rolling release. It's easy enough using Synaptic. Just Reload > Mark all upgrades > Apply. That is the way they insist is the only safe way to do it.

My problem is the all-or-nothing approach doesn't suit me at all! I need to be able to choose which updates to accept. Sometimes the old kernel works and a new one borks something. So much stuff breaks after updating even selectively, let alone upgrading everything, every time.

Too scary for this kid!

-R

I *don't* remember the last time - if ever - that I had such a problem with PCLinuxOS !
If any update was to break anything (still has to happen), then the next update would fix it. Point barre.

A rolling distro is a distribution that is corrected and improved day after day. It matures and perfects slowly.
Other distributions push a big update (=install), full of bugs, people complain and after a few months things start to get patched and working again. Just in time for the next big update (=install).


Perhaps because you did complete update every time.
What Robin is talking about is selective updates.

Lets say PCLOS offers a new kernel. And along with it a KDE upgrade.
If you chose to do only KDE upgrade - the PCLOS ppl don't assure you that your system will work fine.
Hence, you need to do all updates at once. = upgrade

Ubuntu/DEbian doesn't do the same. Because what you get as updates is not "upgrades" but patchwork/bug fixes on current.
Which is the true definition of update.
alpha1
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:35 am

Re: Drawbacks of a Rolling Release?

Postby GoustiFruit on Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:16 pm

There are currently several kernels to choose from it PCLinuxOS repos, I don't get the point in what you're saying ? I updated to the last (I think it's 2.6.33.7.something.bfs) but I could continue with the default one. Or the pae one. Or the amd one.
Why do you absolutely want to break your system ? Just do what is recommended and you won't have any problem.
User avatar
GoustiFruit
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Drawbacks of a Rolling Release?

Postby ruel24 on Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:59 am

To be fair, I'm mainly a PCLinuxOS user, but I just got bit with KDE 4.5 update that went sour. I reinstalled the OS, and did a full update, only to get the same results. Hence, I've got Mandriva running on that partition.

The advantages to rolling release are long term support, developers spend more time getting new packages tested and released instead of working on next distro release, user doesn't have to wipe and install as often, and it's usually very stable over time because bugs get worked out.

Disadvantages are a bad major update can wreak havoc with the user base, installing can result in ungodly amounts of files to be updated, users can get bored because they're used to getting an exciting update every so often, and popularity can dwindle because the distro isn't always in the news with new upgrades.

As a long time PCLinuxOS user, I'm starting to wonder if major releases of things like Gnome, KDE, kernel, etc. should be released with a new distro release. That way, the distro is built around it and thoroughly tested to work properly. I still don't like having to reinstall every 6 months, though. FWIW, this was the first time I ever got a bad update from PCLinuxOS. It's been about as rock solid stable as anyone could hope for since I starting using it in 2006.
ruel24
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:12 pm

Re: Drawbacks of a Rolling Release?

Postby GoustiFruit on Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:58 pm

Well, if you add frequent snapshot releases to the rolling distribution model, the rare problem you are experiencing is no big deal anymore. Guess what, PCLinuxOS plans on releasing a new snapshot quarterly (I know you know, ruel24 :D ). Last one was 2010.7 so the next should be 2010.10. And if one worry about a big update, it is always possible to create a remaster of your system, then update, and if it goes wrong you can restore from your remaster and wait for the next quarterly...

One thing I have to admit is making Linux Mint less problematic as a non rolling distribution, is that they now have a backup tool that allows saving/restoring installed software. So after a new install it should be easier to get back to the previously customized environment. But I haven't tried it yet, don't know how well it works or not.
User avatar
GoustiFruit
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 253
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Drawbacks of a Rolling Release?

Postby linuxviolin on Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:00 pm

ruel24 wrote:To be fair, I'm mainly a PCLinuxOS user, but I just got bit with KDE 4.5 update that went sour. I reinstalled the OS, and did a full update, only to get the same results. Hence, I've got Mandriva running on that partition.

Well, this is an example of the joys of this "model"... :mrgreen:

ruel24 wrote:The advantages to rolling release are long term support, developers spend more time getting new packages tested and released instead of working on next distro release, user doesn't have to wipe and install as often, and it's usually very stable over time because bugs get worked out.

:lol: Just what is not a rolling release...

er, sorry :wink: :P
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)
User avatar
linuxviolin
Level 8
Level 8
 
Posts: 2055
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:55 pm
Location: France

Re: Drawbacks of a Rolling Release?

Postby adrianx on Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:16 pm

@linuxviolin

You don't like Arch - good for you!

You are making it sound as if no one else is complaining about KDE 4.5.... or changes to Gnome or NetworkManager or Xorg....

I would never have even considered a distro like Arch, but my RedHat funded (6 month release cycle) distro decided to lock me out for more than 6 months. They did something that made my Realtek (RTL8111/8168B) ethernet card unusable, so I started exploring. I'm so glad I did. Good for me!
adrianx
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:36 am
Location: South Africa

Re: Drawbacks of a Rolling Release?

Postby linuxviolin on Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:50 pm

adrianx wrote:You are making it sound as if no one else is complaining

Well, I know well others also complain... probably not enough :) :mrgreen:

adrianx wrote:RedHat funded (6 month release cycle) distro decided to lock me out for more than 6 months.

I'm sorry, maybe I misunderstand you or my English is a little weak here but you say Red Hat => 6 months? I guess Red Hat has support for much more than this for every version... It's not Ubuntu. But maybe you want talk about Fedora? But Fedora is not really Red Hat.... :roll:
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)
User avatar
linuxviolin
Level 8
Level 8
 
Posts: 2055
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:55 pm
Location: France

Re: Drawbacks of a Rolling Release?

Postby adrianx on Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:11 pm

linuxviolin wrote:
adrianx wrote:You are making it sound as if no one else is complaining

Well, I know well others also complain... probably not enough :) :mrgreen:

adrianx wrote:RedHat funded (6 month release cycle) distro decided to lock me out for more than 6 months.

I'm sorry, maybe I misunderstand you or my English is a little weak here but you say Red Hat => 6 months? I guess Red Hat has support for much more that this for every version... It's not Ubuntu. But maybe you want talk about Fedora? But Fedora is not really Red Hat.... :roll:

Yes, that's why I said funded by RedHat... Are we talking about non-rolling releases in general or only Debian/Ubuntu?
adrianx
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:36 am
Location: South Africa

Linux Mint is funded by ads and donations.
 
Previous

Return to Chat about Linux

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests